Mobile Development Thread

[10101000]

My friend & I went to Serda's on Saturday night, talk about awesome... The place was packed & so many people on the streets. Finally starting to feel like an urban place.

[| BRAVO |]

Thought you guys may be interested to hear the "Save our Tanker" ads are running on the radio in Birmingham. If I remember correctly, it gives contact info to support the tanker.

[The 251]

Originally Posted by hallman02

Thought you guys may be interested to hear the "Save our Tanker" ads are running on the radio in Birmingham.

Sweet, thanks for the info. I saw whats happening on the Birmingham forum lately... just wanted to say dont worry about it, and keep up the good work. Your posts are always relevant and informative.

[pkp]

On the Baldwin Country comments - I actually own a condo in Orange Beach and stay there every weekend during the summer - but other than the beach itself, I still dislike Baldwin County. When it was nothing but farmland and beach, it was fine. Now, it is nothing but sprawl - I see nothing special about it - go to the suburbs of any midsize city in the south and you will see exactly the same thing. Fairhope may be the exception, but I think it is highly overrated. The urban part of the city is like 3 square blocks and no one can really afford to live "downtown". I think it is ok because it has a few blocks that are walkable, but mostly because it does have good public water access. As far as good urbanity go, there are dozens of people who live in my neighborhood who moved from Fairhope because they found it wasn't urban at all - nor really that "artsy" for that matter with the exception of a few artists that live there and the art shows they have. They would rather have a little grit and live in a real neighborhood than some white washed attempt at a city.

[The 251]

Originally Posted by pkp

On the Baldwin Country comments - I actually own a condo in Orange Beach and stay there every weekend during the summer - but other than the beach itself, I still dislike Baldwin County. When it was nothing but farmland and beach, it was fine. Now, it is nothing but sprawl - I see nothing special about it - go to the suburbs of any midsize city in the south and you will see exactly the same thing. Fairhope may be the exception, but I think it is highly overrated. The urban part of the city is like 3 square blocks and no one can really afford to live "downtown". I think it is ok because it has a few blocks that are walkable, but mostly because it does have good public water access. As far as good urbanity go, there are dozens of people who live in my neighborhood who moved from Fairhope because they found it wasn't urban at all - nor really that "artsy" for that matter with the exception of a few artists that live there and the art shows they have. They would rather have a little grit and live in a real neighborhood than some white washed attempt at a city.

I dont really understand why you thought it was fine with only beaches and farms, but now that it has significantly developed, you find it boring.
That makes no sense to me... its like saying "I liked to watch television back when everything was in black and white, but now that everything is in high definition, i dislike it."

I am actually not "from" Mobile. I moved to Foley from Birmingham when I was 6 years old, and grew up there. I have also lived in Gulf Shores, Elberta, Perdido Beach, Robertsdale, Loxley and west Mobile. I know there is nothing "special" about Baldwin County besides the beaches, but who said there was? I have never heard anyone consider any place in Baldwin County a large suburban metropolis, because there isnt one. It is a nice, quiet place to raise a family, and relax on the weekends and not much more. However.. in my opinion, Mobile would not be nearly as successful today if it weren't for the tourism in Baldwin County. Baldwin County is the fastest growing county in the entire state at around 8.6% annually, and is the leader out of all 67 counties in contributing tourism dollars to the states $417 BILLON tourism industry. Business has grown over 170% over the past six years in BC, and the quality of life index in the county is 178 (the united states average is 100).... AND, the annual population of Baldwin County is 4.6 MILLION (incluing full and part time residents)

The two counties work hand in hand despite offering completely different lifestyles. They are great compliments to one another, and by working together they will eventually make our region one of the most beautiful, enjoyable places to live in the world! I dont understand why there should be conflict between the two. I love both counties, and I plan to live in and support them both for my entire life.

[mobile]

251 u said it perfect!!!! It's all about the Bay area

[nimsjus]

I was flipping through the channels at the gym today and caught Jimmy Buffet on Regis and Kelly promoting his new book "Swine Not", which aparently is a NYT Bestseller. He was talking about being a very poor student in school and Regis asked him where he was originally from. Jimmy said Mobile, Alabama and Regis repeated Mobile several time before going off to commercial. It is always cool for me to hear Mobile mentioned on nationaly television.

[CottonCity251]

Originally Posted by nimsjus

It is always cool for me to hear Mobile mentioned on nationaly television.

I feel the same way.


Breaking News from the Press-Register...

Northrop sets tanker complex groundbreakingPosted by George Talbot May 13, 2008 9:31 AM
Categories: Breaking News

Northrop Grumman Corp. said Tuesday it will break ground June 28 on a proposed $600 million, 1,500-worker aircraft assembly plant at Mobile's Brookley Field Industrial Complex.

Northrop and its chief subcontractor, EADS North America, said the ceremony was scheduled pending the outcome of the Government Accountability Office review of the U.S. Air Force refueling tanker contract. Los Angeles-based Northrop and EADS won the potential $40 billion deal over rival Boeing Co. on Feb. 29. Chicago-based Boeing is protesting the award before GAO, which has a deadline of June 19 to complete its review.

"We anticipate a favorable decision and look forward to starting construction on this historic facility," said Ronald D. Sugar, Northrop Grumman chairman and chief executive officer. "We're committed to transforming Mobile into the centerpiece of an expanding aerospace corridor."

[elb401]

I would have to agree with PKP about baldwin county. I like both counties and they should work together more. B-county gives very little in economic development for our area. They are starting to step up, but not nearly as much as they should. After all the eastern shore wouldn't be much if it wasn't for the city of Mobile and the I-10 bridge. To me, B-county and west Mobile look the exact same. All of my extended family live in b-county. I enjoy going to the delta north of spanish fort where my grandparents live. To bad there growth is not in check. That is what is making Baldwin county boring.....these large box stores and houses that look the same (just like in West Mobile). Baldwin county is a great suburban area to live in......or at least until gas hits $5.00 a gallon. But anyways, you are right 251, the counties need to work together as the coastal region. especially when the rest of the state wont help us.

[CottonCity251]

Also, the new May-June '08 Downtown Alliance newsletter is out....

http://downtownmobile.org/images/news/dan_may_june_2008

[mobile]

So we need 2 set up a date time and place of when we are going to have the Mobile or "Bay Area" metting we talked about a few months ago.

[montysano]

pkp said:

On the Baldwin Country comments - I actually own a condo in Orange Beach and stay there every weekend during the summer - but other than the beach itself, I still dislike Baldwin County. When it was nothing but farmland and beach, it was fine. Now, it is nothing but sprawl - I see nothing special about it - go to the suburbs of any midsize city in the south and you will see exactly the same thing.

to which the 251 replied:

That makes no sense to me... its like saying "I liked to watch television back when everything was in black and white, but now that everything is in high definition, i dislike it."

For some of us, the "sprawl" model of development is not an attractive thing. Plus, it's a model that's based completely on the automobile, and by extension, cheap gas. As gas prices continue to climb (and I'm afraid we're not done yet, folks. $8.00/gallon in two years is my prediction), the suburban/sprawl model will become increasingly untenable. A higher density approach, where people can be within 5-10 miles of work and shopping, will become more attractive.

I also agree with pkp that, with the current modes of development, any real sense of "place" is lost. Maybe that's why I love Dauphin Island, and why I love sections of the Black Belt: they still have that distinctiveness. Camden, Alabama has some wonderful architecture, to the point where it almost feels like a "Camden style".

I don't mean to knock Baldwin. We've had some great times there, and always left a pile of $$ behind.

[Electrical Porpoise]

Baldwin County has certainly helped Mobile over the years, and they have worked together to help each other as well...both are good for each other. Mobile is regaining the strength we all knew it had but there is a reason Daphne and Spanish Fort have exploded. They targeted new residents and middle class people to move there and have easy access to downtown Mobile. Getting downtown from West Mobile is a nightmare and these Baldwin towns made vast road and housing improvements to attract residents using the convenience factor. Both will use each other down the line but it will definitely be more in the private sector as that is sort of obvious already.


Regarding Baldwin's uniqueness:

I am not sure what parts of Baldwin County yall are referring to. Perhaps the Daphne, S-F, Malbis area, but other than that there are not many west Mobile neighborhoods.

Of course there are a some newer developing areas, like down 27 towards Fairhope, but other than that there arent as many...and older developments near Lake Forest and a few down the four lane of 98.

But older cities/areas like Foley, Fairhope, Point Clear, Magnolia Springs, Elberta, Lillian, and Bon Secour, etc. still build and extend older areas without cutting a plot of land and sub-dividing it.

And I, like most, hate the new suburban grids being developed everywhere...but along highways near new construction they are affordable, and upgrade for most, and arent going away...but I would say Baldwin county is as unique as most with the culture differences every few miles. I guess when traveling to the beaches these places are tough to see...and I hate 59!

[pkp]

I don't really disagree with any of the Baldwin comments. However, this is a website substantially dedicated to urban living and most of Baldwin is as far from that as you can get. Also, Baldwin county has done very little to help the City of Mobile, unless you count all of the cars blocking up Government Street every afternoon polluting the air as they go home. This is the main reason I am opposed to the I-10 bridge. The traffic problems in the tunnel are not from "interstate travel". They are from commuters going back to the burbs, and I can frankly give a damn if they have to sit in traffic. I would be much more supportive of some sort of mass transit, but I have a feeling most Baldwin residents would refuse to ride it, since that is what "poor people" do. As I mentioned earlier, I have a residence there, but just don't like much about it except for the beaches. I have worked with the Chamber in the past with Envision Coastal Alabama, and quite frankly the elitism, and racism I saw with many Baldwin leaders was appalling. I won't get into it anymore than that - but it's basically like "you take all of the dirty industry and we will house your workers and take all of their money." That's not to say that there weren't similar issues with some of the smaller cities in Mobile County, we weren't talking about that. As a "part time" resident, I imagine I am entitled to an opinion.

[Electrical Porpoise]

Originally Posted by pkp

I would be much more supportive of some sort of mass transit, but I have a feeling most Baldwin residents would refuse to ride it, since that is what "poor people" do. As I mentioned earlier, I have a residence there, but just don't like much about it except for the beaches. I have worked with the Chamber in the past with Envision Coastal Alabama, and quite frankly the elitism, and racism I saw with many Baldwin leaders was appalling.

If you have ever had to deal with the public leaders in Baldwin County on a yearly basis you would have some new best friends...they arent different than you, they are the exact same...and that is why they get little accomplished. They are just narrow minded and do not like wealthy people, even though tourism runs the county.

Baldwin County is more of a blue collar area compared to Mobile except for those near the water.

[The 251]

Don’t misunderstand what I’m saying….I am not trying to start a war between supporters of either county; in fact, that is the complete opposite of what my aim in the previous statements was. My dream would be to have the same love and appreciation of Baldwin County by Mobile residents as there is in the complementary view.

However….

I respect your opinion in all the views you expressed, but why not support your case with some evidence? Like for instance, you said “Baldwin County has done very little to help the City of Mobile, unless you count all of the cars blocking up Government Street every afternoon polluting the air as they go home.” Do you have any sources that document and clarify this claim?

I am also opposed to the I-10 Bridge, mainly because the highway systems we have in place now are effective, and for taxpayers to spend over a billion dollars to build such an un-needed structure (in my opinion, a ‘status symbol’), would be extremely wasteful.

You did make a great point when you said that Baldwin County residents pollute the air as they go home every day. Shame on them! Mobile residents would never go over to Baldwin County and do that… I suppose they should also be ashamed of themselves for forcing Mobile residents to live in their county and taking their money.

[mobile]

I don't see anything wrong with Baldwin Co. Growing. It's better than just having a bunch of trees and farms.

[Muskavon]

Alright Mobile vs. Baldwin...calm down. It is what it is. People did what they did and do what they do. These are good times for the area. Maybe the combination of forces (gas, economic development, traffic, etc.) will force the "urban flight" people into some idealistic urban Mobile City mecca by market forces over time. But probably not. Let's still celebrate what is happening around here.

As far as economic development goes, don't be surprised when the steel plant sprawls a new wall of continuous development to the north end of Mobile & Baldwin Counties. Businesses, apartments, homes, strip centers, etc., etc. By the time it is done you'll have a hard time calling anyone in Daphne anymore a gas guzzling suburban creep than you will the thousands commuting from the north ends of Mobile County. In fact, the East Shore people will probably travel much less distance on average if they need to work in Mobile.

Then, assuming the tanker assembly gets full approval...a number of companies will come up in Baldwin and even Escambia, FL (and in Miss.) to serve that enterprise. Some are already there and would expand. More interlocking of the counties.

It's all tied together. And it is gonna be ever more with every development. I don't think it is realistic to think you'll stop the sprawl in this area. Urban living in core areas may continue to come back into vogue (great), but just take a look at where companies are choosing their spots to grow. Airbus and Brookley is an awesome exception as the land and perfect spot is available. But the steel plant isn't going to build downtown and hire 5,000 city dwellers. Had the VW plant chosen Atmore...uh...hello....where would/should people live to work there? More sprawl. The links between Mobile/Atmore/Pensacola woulda exploded. The workers wouldn't have congregated in the city of Mobile or P'cola. Considering the gas argument...good for them.

So you've got your East Shore workforce that runs thru the tunnel every morning. Then you've got your Baldwin County bedroom communities in the middle. Your beach scene in the south. You've also got your Pensacola commuter runaways in Lillian, Seminole, Orange Beach, etc. But lost in that is a few upstart companies that produce stuff in Baldwin County. And a pile of potential land for more. I'd suspect you'll see a lot of economic development in Baldwin County over the next decade that catches up with the city "flight". It has the land, the skilled workers from either side of it, and Alabama business friendliness. In 2020, many people in Mobile/Pensacola may wonder why they spend a gallon of gas every day driving to work in Baldwin County.

[Muskavon]

Latest from Mobile P-R regarding the racetrack....

http://www.al.com/business/press-register/index.ssf?/base/business/1210756544228650.xml&coll=3

I think it is basically the same showing they had with another group on May 1st. Just spreading the word. It's the same thing (I think) they pitched last month with much less wetlands affected and a loss of some features as a result (importantly, loss of racetracks).

p.s. this is another development that'll attract gas guzzlers from near and far and help make north Mobile County a continuous strip of surbania. Not that I object at all. I want the racetrack and know it can't be built in downtown Mobile. Just providing some more reality to those who think all things should lead to a massive clump of us living around St. Michael Street for utilitarian needs.

[Del]

The 251: are you asking for evidence that Baldwin serves as a bedroom community for Mobile? This spreadsheet at the Chamber site has some numbers from the 2000 census that I think back up that claim pretty well. And of course there's been a lot of growth since then. Maybe, as gas prices continue to rise, Muskavon's prediction will be realized and Baldwin will develop its own jobs.