ATLANTA TRANSIT (Marta, Beltline, Peachtree Streetcar, LovJoy Commuter, etc...) - Page 72

Fiorenza · #**1421** Posted **May 12, 2008, 3:04 PM**

BDaddy,

My problem with the auto companies is, they're not willing to accept meaningful CAFE standards, nor are they really willing to offer relatively inexpensive gas-efficient hybrids. Since they get bigger margins on larger vehicles, there is no incentive.

Auto companies are not competitive because there are not enough of them. They form a de facto cartel. The same effect will be happening in the airline industry, especially if Airtran is eliminated, but at least most of us don't have to fly every day or even every month.

echinatl · #**1422** Posted **May 12, 2008, 3:12 PM**

We (as a country) dug our own grave when it comes to our oil dependence. It's time to dig ourselves out.

Once we were the only game in town, and all it took to get OPEC to increase supply was a phone call over there. Now with China and India playing a much larger role, we are not "needed" like we used to be. Bush just took a trip over there and NOTHING happened. Oil will only get more expensive, a lot more expensive.

Also, it looks like OPEC is no in a hurry to increase supply to the point where Indonesia is thinking about leaving. (http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/in...2F4-4CB3-820E-846E230F6492%7D&dist=msr_1) Whats up with that?

I'd like to see federal dollars for solar panels and improved public transit ASAP. Every building should be covered with panels, and open lots should have solar panel tents installed above them. We could cut our dependency on foreign oil, we just have to want too.

You also have some tin foil hat wearers that claim the automotive industry is to blame because of aggressive lobbying against development of rail systems.

BabydaddyATL · #**1423** Posted **May 12, 2008, 3:20 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiorenza

BDaddy,

My problem with the auto companies is, they're not willing to accept meaningful CAFE standards, nor are they really willing to offer relatively inexpensive gas-efficient hybrids. Since they get bigger margins on larger vehicles, there is no incentive.

Auto companies are not competitive because there are not enough of them. They form a de facto cartel. The same effect will be happening in the airline industry, especially if Airtran is eliminated, but at least most of us don't have to fly every day or even every month.

Fiorenza, the US auto companies can not accept stricter CAFE standards because they can not afford to develop the technology. This is where our government should play a role.

Octavian · #**1424** Posted **May 12, 2008, 3:25 PM**

The Big 7 Oil companies only control 20% of global supply. The rest is pumped by national oil companies. Oil prices are high because demand is high and supply is constrained.

Fiorenza · #**1425** Posted **May 12, 2008, 3:25 PM**

Why can they not afford to develop the technology? Is that what the industry/UAW is putting out?

BabydaddyATL · #**1426** Posted **May 12, 2008, 3:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by echinatl

We (as a country) dug our own grave when it comes to our oil dependence. It's time to dig ourselves out.

Once we were the only game in town, and all it took to get OPEC to increase supply was a phone call over there. Now with China and India playing a much larger role, we are not "needed" like we used to be. Bush just took a trip over there and NOTHING happened. Oil will only get more expensive, a lot more expensive.

Also, it looks like OPEC is no in a hurry to increase supply to the point where Indonesia is thinking about leaving. (http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/in...2F4-4CB3-820E-846E230F6492%7D&dist=msr_1) Whats up with that?

I'd like to see federal dollars for solar panels and improved public transit ASAP. Every building should be covered with panels, and open lots should have solar panel tents installed above them. We could cut our dependency on foreign oil, we just have to want too.

You also have some tin foil hat wearers that claim the automotive industry is to blame because of aggressive lobbying against development of rail systems.

echinatl, I WEAR A TIN FOIL HAT!!! Call me a conspiracy nut, but when there is smoke their is usually fire. If the general public can't see that these large companies control the national agenda, they are fooling themselves.

BabydaddyATL · #**1427** Posted **May 12, 2008, 3:29 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Octavian

The Big 7 Oil companies only control 20% of global supply. The rest is pumped by national oil companies. Oil prices are high because demand is high and supply is constrained.

Who is constraining the supply? - THE OIL COMPANIES/Countries. The Cartel meets quarterly to determine the supply. They could supply more, but choose not. Collusion.

BabydaddyATL · #**1428** Posted **May 12, 2008, 3:33 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiorenza

Why can they not afford to develop the technology? Is that what the industry/UAW is putting out?

Fiorenza, take a look at the US auto companies balance sheets. They can barely afford to flush the toilets. Investment to increase CAFE standards will cost billions.

Octavian · #**1429** Posted **May 12, 2008, 3:44 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by BabydaddyATL

Who is constraining the supply? - THE OIL COMPANIES/Countries. The Cartel meets quarterly to determine the supply. They could supply more, but choose not. Collusion.

When oil is at $120 a barrel, the incentive to cheat OPEC is very high. It makes collusion very difficult. If it costs Saudi Arabia $2 a barrel to pump oil, they make $118 in profit at these levels. That level of discipline is hard to maintain. But prices aren't falling.

I would look at this article to explain why prices are rising:

http://meganmcardle.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/05/price_elasticity_of_gasoline_a.php

echinatl · #**1430** Posted **May 12, 2008, 3:46 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by BabydaddyATL

Fiorenza, take a look at the US auto companies balance sheets. They can barely afford to flush the toilets. Investment to increase CAFE standards will cost billions.

It wasn't always this way. If you can't innovate and survive you deserve to bite the dust. I watched Richard Branson once and he said the biggest thing to hurt American innovation was the ability to file Chapter 11. Instead of having fresh new companies rise to take their place the failed company just re arranges some debt and gets back up and running. No real change happens.

The auto industry does have the means increase the efficiency of their cars but they have chosen not to. At one point there was an agreement with the auto industry and the American oil producers. I'm trying to find the article that talks about that agreement recently ending but it did exist at one time. Plus, look at Europe. They have ton’s of efficient automobiles to choose from.

I've been known to wear a tin foil hat time to time and agree that big business has and is in control of our country. Why I was a Ron Paul supporter and voted for Obama.

echinatl · #**1431** Posted **May 12, 2008, 3:49 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Octavian

They're pumping as much as they can. The nationals don't have the knowhow and the Western companies don't have access to the supply.

When oil is at $120 a barrel, the incentive to cheat OPEC is very high. It makes collusion very difficult. If it costs Saudi Arabia $2 a barrel to pump oil, they make $118 in profit at these levels. That level of discipline is hard to maintain. But prices aren't falling.

I would look at this article to explain why prices are rising:

http://meganmcardle.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/05/price_elasticity_of_gasoline_a.php

They are not pumping as much as they can!

BabydaddyATL · #**1432** Posted **May 12, 2008, 3:56 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by echinatl

They are not pumping as much as they can!

I agree.

OPEC and Gas Prices Around the World

The single largest entity impacting the world's oil supplies is the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC), a consortium of 13 countries: Algeria, Angola, Ecuador, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Libya, Nigeria, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates and Venezuela.
Together, these 13 nations are responsible for 40 percent of the world's oil production and hold the majority of the world's oil reserves, according to the Energy Information Administration (EIA). When OPEC wants to raise the price of crude oil, it simply reduces production. This causes gasoline prices to jump because of the short supply, but also because of the possibility of future reductions. When oil production dips, gas companies get nervous. The mere threat of oil reductions can raise gas prices.

In April 2001, OPEC decided to reduce its collective production by one million barrels per day. This was at the same time that American consumers saw gas prices rise, hitting an average high of $1.71 per gallon on May 14, 2001.

OPEC increased its production in June 2005, when it raised to 28 million barrels per day with an increase of 500,000 barrels per day pending changes in oil prices. In September 2005, it made all of its member countries' "spare output" available, an estimated 2 million barrels per day. However, in November 2006, OPEC again reduced its rate of production by 1.7 million barrels per day to keep the price from falling below $50 per barrel [Source: Joint Economic Committee ]. OPEC's estimated production for the first quarter of 2008 was an average of 32.3 million barrels per day [source: EIA].
Beyond OPEC, there are several other countries that contribute to the world's crude-oil supplies, including the United States, Mexico, Canada, Equatorial Guinea, Russia and China. In February 2008, the United States imported from Canada approximately 1.9 million barrels of crude oil per day [Energy Information Administration]. OPEC tracks the oil production of these nations and then adjusts its own production to maintain its desired barrel price.

Andrea · #**1433** Posted **May 12, 2008, 3:58 PM**

The problem with the auto industry is that they're not spending enough money lobbying. In the past ten years, the auto industry spent a mere $496,310,187 on lobbying. No wonder they're getting killed by other industries who spend hundreds of millions more lobbying!

Come on, guys, there are only 535 Senators and Congressmen, and last year y'all barely topped $70 million in lobbying money.

We little people count on you big corporations! Don't let us down.

Top 20 Lobbying industries

BabydaddyATL · #**1434** Posted **May 12, 2008, 4:04 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrea

The problem with the auto industry is that they're not spending enough money lobbying. In the past ten years, the auto industry spent a mere $496,310,187 on lobbying. No wonder they're getting killed by other industries who spend hundreds of millions more lobbying!

Come on, guys, there are only 535 Senators and Congressmen, and last year y'all barely topped $70 million in lobbying money.

We little people count on you big corporations! Don't let us down.

Top 20 Lobbying industries

For those of you who do not think big business controls our government, Andrea has just provided you something to ponder.

Andrea · #**1435** Posted **May 12, 2008, 4:12 PM**

Well, of course they do, B-Daddy, that's simply modern democracy in action! It may not be what the Founding Fathers had in mind, but the big corporations are motivated by market forces so I'm sure we can rely on them to look out for our best interests.

And don't forget, in America I have the right to call up my own Congressman or Senator directly. I'm sure they'll be just as eager to take my call and will give just as much consideration to my opinion as they would to any lobbyist. I may not be able to give them huge campaign contributions or invite them to my lodge in Tahoe on a corporate jet or have them over for dinner at my Georgetown townhouse, but my vote counts!

BabydaddyATL · #**1436** Posted **May 12, 2008, 6:27 PM**

More News On How Corporate America Does the Right Thing

So today after 16 years of smoking I decided to quit. So I drove over to the Target Lindbergh to make my purchase. Keep in mind I am thinking these things are like $10.00. Well, I get to the aisle and see the product that was labeled $57.00 and change for a patch no bigger than your nipple. So I said those @$#$%, ^$&*$&, son-a- @#%%^^, commy mother@$#%%#%. They get me coming and going. Only in America baby!!!!

echinatl · #**1437** Posted **May 12, 2008, 7:12 PM**

America: Dishing it out without the courtesy of a reach-around since 1776!

BabydaddyATL · #**1438** Posted **May 12, 2008, 7:29 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by echinatl

America: Dishing it out without the courtesy of a reach-around since 1776!

For $57 and change I expect more than a reach around. At least a couple of sliders from Krystal Burgers!

Andrea · #**1439** Posted **May 12, 2008, 9:39 PM**

Call your government representative, B-Daddy! I'm sure they'll be glad to help out if they're not tied up with a tobacco lobbyist. Or a Big Pharma lobbyist. Or an insurance lobbyist. Or a utilities lobbyist. Or a chamber of commerce lobbyist. Or an oil and gas lobbyist. Or a telecommunications lobbyist. Or....well, maybe that's not such a good idea.

Just pay the $57.00, it's only fair. That's the market price!

MarketsWork · #**1440** Posted **May 12, 2008, 9:49 PM**

If too few people buy the patches at $57, the price will fall. If way too few people buy at $57, the price will fall substantially. If nobody buys at $57, the patches will go on clearance. Cold turkey is free, and only you can decide whether the patch is worth $57. Willing buyer, willing seller.