Sacramento: 301 Capitol Mall: A New Plan for The Towers Site

[travis bickle]

Originally Posted by SacUrbnPlnr

If you to talk to developers of high density urban projects in Sacramento, they will likely tell you that among the factors driving cost and affecting financial feasibility in the Sacramento market are:

1. Land costs--very high in the central city area, in particular
2. Infrastructure costs
3. Labor costs--we compete with the Bay area for construction labor
4. CEQA/Permit process--this can add one to three years to the process compared to communities in states that have few or no environmental or planning laws and little public participation

Also keep in mind that rents/lease rates/prices that can be charged in the Sacramento market are generally less than in the Bay Area, despite our high development costs. This further impacts the financial feasibilty of high density urban projects.

Those items could describe almost any major metropolis in California. The final item though (market forces), really hinders what can be built here.

As usual, wburg uses a sweeping generality to make a point as there aren't too many nuclear waste sites in downtown SLC. If you're going to use Utah as a comparison, perhaps we should limit the discussion to large urban cores.

Accepting that, we can ask if the CEQA process has produced a greatly superior urban product in Sacramento than it has in Salt Lake City.

[SacUrbnPlnr]

Originally Posted by travis bickle

Those items could describe almost any major metropolis in California. The final item though (market forces), really hinders what can be built here.

As usual, wburg uses a sweeping generality to make a point as there aren't too many nuclear waste sites in downtown SLC. If you're going to use Utah as a comparison, perhaps we should limit the discussion to large urban cores.

Accepting that, we can ask if the CEQA process has produced a greatly superior urban product in Sacramento than it has in Salt Lake City.

I would suggest the answer is no.

Very true. The bottom line is that the high-density and/or highrise proposals we've seen in Sacramento face development costs similar to those in larger urban areas such as San Diego, LA, and the Bay Area, but individuals and businesses in Sacramento cannot or will not pay the high rents/lease rates/prices necessary to make many of these projects work. For example, median household income in Sacramento County is about 64% of that in Santa Clara County, 71% of that in San Francisco, 80% of that in Alameda County, and 85% of that in Orange County. Plus the pool of potential buyers/renters for high-end urban residences is much smaller than in larger urban areas. It's interesting to note that Sacramento County's median income is only slightly below that of San Diego County and significantly higher than LA County. Of course, either of these places has many more potentially upper income households to draw from than Sacramento.

[wburg]

"Cannot or will not" is key. The ones who cannot, can't because they literally don't make enough money to afford such a unit. The ones who will not won't because they have other options at lower cost. Sacramento's historic middle-class orientation (the wealthy tend to leave once they make their wad) means that the upper-income population simply isn't there. The challenge then becomes either find a way to raise median income, find a way to keep people here once they become wealthy, or build a product that present incomes can afford.

Having been through downtown Salt Lake City on Amtrak, I wasn't particularly impressed with the view. It's a mishmash of buildings surrounded by lots and lots and lots of sprawl, indiscriminately placed on top of what was some beautiful desert scenery--not sure where they get the water for those lawns.

Their train station is a 1970s "Amshack" that receives two trains a day--they normally arrive in the middle of the night, because it's just not a city people want to photograph. Omaha, Ottumwa and Burlington are all a lot more photogenic, even from the tracks, than SLC--and Sacramento certainly is.

So if one is willing to accept the idea often implied here, that Sacramento is the worst-case scenario in California, and having seen how much better we look as a city than Salt Lake City, then yeah, I'd say that CEQA has helped to produce a superior urban product in California.

[innov8]

Originally Posted by wburg

Having been through downtown Salt Lake City on Amtrak, I wasn't particularly impressed with the view. It's a mishmash of buildings surrounded by lots and lots and lots of sprawl, indiscriminately placed on top of what was some beautiful desert scenery--not sure where they get the water for those lawns.

Their train station is a 1970s "Amshack" that receives two trains a day--they normally arrive in the middle of the night, because it's just not a city people want to photograph. Omaha, Ottumwa and Burlington are all a lot more photogenic, even from the tracks, than SLC--and Sacramento certainly is.

So if one is willing to accept the idea often implied here, that Sacramento is the worst-case scenario in California, and having seen how much better we look as a city than Salt Lake City, then yeah, I'd say that CEQA has helped to produce a superior urban product in California.

Wberg, your passing judgment on Salt Lake City like many people who only
drive-thru Sacramento on their way from the Bay Area to Lake Tahoe and
say this is a cow town. Seriously, from what you said, you did not even let
your foot touch the soil of Utah but somehow you can make these grand
generality of the city. The water comes from the mountains that surround
the city and have lots of great ski resorts.

[wburg]

innov8: Amtrak stops in Utah for an hour or two, normally on any Amtrak stop I get out and stretch my legs and look around (and take photos) if I'm awake. I suppose I should qualify my statement in that I'm basing it entirely on what I can see from the tracks, but I'm comparing it with the views of other cities from the tracks.

I mean, if you have lots of information about how awesome and urban Salt Lake City is, I'm open to hearing it, but I couldn't see it from the Amshack.

[innov8]

This link might help you, or not? http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=115696

Lot’s of info about SLC? The link above should give you an idea of what’s
going on there as far as urban living and construction go. Your sweeping
generality of a city after sitting around the Amtrak Station for two hours
sounds weird to me.

I’ve been SLC a couple time to ski and toddle around the city and I had fun…
maybe you need to know people who live there to be able to enjoy what
a city has to offer? This is often the case when out-of-towners come to
Sacramento not realizing how much the city has to offer

If Schmoe's tuning in, he would be able to give his take as a transplant from Sactown.

Anyways...

[travis bickle]

Originally Posted by wburg

innov8: Amtrak stops in Utah for an hour or two, normally on any Amtrak stop I get out and stretch my legs and look around (and take photos) if I'm awake. I suppose I should qualify my statement in that I'm basing it entirely on what I can see from the tracks, but I'm comparing it with the views of other cities from the tracks.

I mean, if you have lots of information about how awesome and urban Salt Lake City is, I'm open to hearing it, but I couldn't see it from the Amshack.

Jeeze wburg... is that the kind of diligent research you're doing for your Masters? Sac State professors... please take note

Wow... a couple of hours and a few photos... presto! I'm an expert on Salt Lake City and can unequivocally pronounce it's urban area vastly inferior to Sacramento's and this is because of CEQA...

Indicting an entire urban area based on a few shots from an amshack in the middle of the night... pretty weak, even for you.

Oh and...

Omaha, Ottumwa and Burlington are all a lot more photogenic, even from the tracks

what are the CEQA type requirements there? Do they have much worse urban environments than Sacramento too? C'mon expert.. I assume you took a few shots... Isn't that enough?

[wburg]

I'm not sure how comments about "having been through downtown Salt Lake City on Amtrak" counts as an unequivocal pronouncement--it's my opinion, based on very limited experience, that I relayed--a snap judgment, to be sure. While listening to lots of Rush Limbaugh makes it difficult to tell opinion from statements of fact, there really is a difference. You posed a fairly subjective question--I provided an answer, and then you got upset because I disagree with you.

While presentation of facts is important to graduate level work, this board isn't a graduate project--it's an entertaining distraction. I'll start taking it seriously if I can get college credit for posting here. Until then, I will feel welcome to post my opinions. Your reaction to my opinions is a matter entirely in your control.

[travis bickle]

Originally Posted by wburg

I'm not sure how comments about "having been through downtown Salt Lake City on Amtrak" counts as an unequivocal pronouncement--it's my opinion, based on very limited experience, that I relayed--a snap judgment, to be sure. While listening to lots of Rush Limbaugh makes it difficult to tell opinion from statements of fact, there really is a difference. You posed a fairly subjective question--I provided an answer, and then you got upset because I disagree with you.

While presentation of facts is important to graduate level work, this board isn't a graduate project--it's an entertaining distraction. I'll start taking it seriously if I can get college credit for posting here. Until then, I will feel welcome to post my opinions. Your reaction to my opinions is a matter entirely in your control.

Don't wet your pants wburg. No one is getting upset (except you). I was pointing out how baseless your assessment of Salt Lake City was. As usual, you resort to stereotypes (Limbaugh, blah, blah, blah...). I greatly appreciate your views here, but to say Sacramento's urban core is better than Salt Lake City's based on a few shots from the train and because of CEQA and is absolutely laughable... so I'm laughing .

[goldcntry]

wburg, I love and respect your opinion bro. And yes, I appreciate the fact that you state up front your view is based solely on the view from the Amshack (and yes, I totally concure on the the characterization of the building!). As your fellow Elder Statesman of the Gen X set (I figure since we're both 38 going on 39 we qualify as the old X-ers) allow me to introduce the SLC I love almost as much as I love SAC. This thread http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=136815 is probably one of the best pictorials of SLC's vibrant street life. At times it is as if the party that started in the 2002 Olympics never stopped. It is a very ecclectic city and a much better city for having hosted the world. It is a place where straight-laced LDS can live side-by-side with the more liberally-mided set in relative peace. A place where friends can hit all the pubs or a family can catch a late bite to eat.




This message NOT brought to you by the Utah Chamber of Commerce...

[innov8]

This story is silly… for several weeks I have noticed partial photos up at the
site. Runyon Saltzman & Einhorn are a top notch ad and design firm who
know their stuff. This is not rocket science.


By Bob Shallit
Saturday, February 9, 2008
* * *
Wal-art: Weeks after it was scheduled to appear, that planned photo wall has yet to materialize around the abandoned construction hole at Third Street and Capitol Mall.

Blame the delay on weather.

Workers have tried unsuccessfully to apply a glossy, graffiti- resistant film – incorporating photographs of Sacramento people and places – to wood panels surrounding the site.

"We're just not happy with the way it's adhering," says Scott Rose, a vice president with Runyon Saltzman & Einhorn, the public relations and ad agency handling the installation for the site's current owner, the California Public Employees' Retirement System.

It could be the new wall is too wet from recent rains, Rose says. Or there could be a chemical problem with the panels' gray paint.

Either way, Rose promises the "wall wrap" – showcasing pictures by Sacramento Bee photographers – will be installed within two weeks.

[Majin]

Are they sure these photographs won't block the view of the Capitol from Richards Blvd? We are trying to keep a 360° viewing area of the Capitol from every point in Sacramento.

[sactown_2007]

I snapped a few pics of the "wall wrap". I must admit I was a little disappointed but better than looking at a hole in the ground.

[kryptos]

Originally Posted by sactown_2007

I snapped a few pics of the "wall wrap". I must admit I was a little disappointed but better than looking at a hole in the ground.

id rather just see a hole in the ground atleast its not hurting my eyes with that wannabee ghetto mural...

[sactown_2007]

You know -- that one picture of the guy holding the boy up to dunk in a basketball -- you would have though he would at least be wearing a Kings jersey

[SacTownAndy]

Does anyone think this will have any impact on the Towers site and the CalPers/CIM proposal. Wasn't it this guy that was butting heads with Saca? I can't remember.

CalPERS CEO to Step Down
Written by Elizabeth Bishop, Senior Internet News Producer

SACRAMENTO (AP) -- The chief executive of California's public employee pension system is stepping down to pursue what he calls exciting opportunities in the private sector.

Fred Buenrostro Jr. is leaving after six years as chief administrator of the California Public Employees' Retirement System. CalPERS is the nation's largest public employee pension fund.

Buenrostro is the second top CalPERS official to announce his departure recently. The system's chief investment officer, Russell Read, is leaving June 30.

Buenrostro's departure date is still under discussion.

http://www.news10.net/display_story.aspx?storyid=41310

[ozone]

Speaking of CalPERS ... CalPERS a key equity partner in the massive Grand Avenue Project in Los Angeles pulled out of that project at the last minute leaving the company to scramble for a new partnership - which they found in Istithmar of Dubai.

Did you know that CalPers (California Public Employees' Retirement System) has a $88 million stake in Oakbrook Shopping Center, located in suburban of Chicago and $65 million investment in The Houston Galleria Shopping Center and $100 million investment in vineyards? Calpers is also investing hundreds of millions in real estate in Asia.

[arod74]

It would be nice if CalPERS could show Sacramento a little bit more investment love instead of just pulling outta projects here. It doesn't look like they are going to announce anything in conjuction with CIM for our great hole anytime soon like was speculated about a year ago when the towers folded.

[wburg]

CalPERS has also shown returns of about 18-19% in an era of bear markets and collapsing mutual funds. Or are there circumstances under which investors are beholden to more than just their stockholders?

[jsf8278]

Originally Posted by ozone

Speaking of CalPERS ... CalPERS a key equity partner in the massive Grand Avenue Project in Los Angeles pulled out of that project at the last minute leaving the company to scramble for a new partnership - which they found in Istithmar of Dubai.

Did you know that CalPers (California Public Employees' Retirement System) has a $88 million stake in Oakbrook Shopping Center, located in suburban of Chicago and $65 million investment in The Houston Galleria Shopping Center and $100 million investment in vineyards? Calpers is also investing hundreds of millions in real estate in Asia.

What's your point? They're not beholden to California in anyway other than to provide the largest possible return for their customers, who happen to be California residents.