Lister Block | ? | 6 fl | Renovation - Page 40

hmagazine · #**781** Posted **Apr 24, 2008, 6:42 PM**

Life without buildings...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fSbWXSldgY&NR=1

oldcoote · #**782** Posted **Apr 24, 2008, 6:47 PM**

Mike Long strikes again.

Jon Dalton · #**783** Posted **Apr 24, 2008, 7:01 PM**

I wasn't kidding, but I heard this from someone who was talking to some of the demolition workers. Hopefully they were just misinformed. I would be surprised if anyone would buy that Reardons building to demolish it. Last night there were lights on in about half of the windows of the upper floors. The building is still listed: http://www.icx.ca/PropertyDetails.aspx?v...s%3d%26mxls%3d&Mode=0&PropertyID=6731885

LikeHamilton · #**784** Posted **Apr 24, 2008, 7:19 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Dalton

I wasn't kidding, but I heard this from someone who was talking to some of the demolition workers. Hopefully they were just misinformed. I would be surprised if anyone would buy that Reardons building to demolish it. Last night there were lights on in about half of the windows of the upper floors. The building is still listed: http://www.icx.ca/PropertyDetails.aspx?v...s%3d%26mxls%3d&Mode=0&PropertyID=6731885

OK. I thought I was dreaming. I heard this on CHCH earlier in the week on the 11 o’clock news. It may have been Sunday night as I was at work on Monday and Tuesday at 11. They where interviewing the demolition contractor and he said that he was asked to look at that building as the next building to come down. I was tired and somewhat dozy and since no one else said anything I thought I was having a nightmare!

Everyone call and/or email the mayor and councillors.

Jon Dalton · #**785** Posted **Apr 24, 2008, 8:38 PM**

So apparently the owner and/or potential buyer have expressed interest in demolition, enough so to have a contractor inspect the site. Whether or not this is true, now would be a good time to contact city council and advise them of this potential threat to the street.

Nothing should be demolished unless there is a building permit for something compatible with the city's King William Streetscape master plan: http://www.myhamilton.ca/myhamilton/City...astProjects/King-William-Master-Plan.htm

matt602 · #**786** Posted **Apr 24, 2008, 10:19 PM**

This is getting ridiculous. That beautiful stretch of street is about to get raped and pillaged.

11thIndian · #**787** Posted **Apr 24, 2008, 10:59 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by JT Jacobs

This is precisely why the (Eaton's) City Centre failed so miserably: it shunned street commerce and pedestrians by facing its stores inward away from the street. If stores had flanked James ST then this (ugly) project might have had a chance. It still might if the ground floor was reconfigured to embrace the streetscape.

It is maddening to see major projects happen like this happen without more consideration for the implications of the design on actual lived urban experience.

Eaton's Centre was just like this until they reno'd the Young St. side so ground level stores had both mall and street facing entrances. I don't see why this couldn't happen with our Eaton's Centre once the city moves out...

NuclearNerd · #**788** Posted **Apr 25, 2008, 6:04 AM**

Quote:

Lister should not be office space. This is the problem. LIUNA sees free government money in an office conversion and they are blind to anything else. More sane developers (stinson for example, and being called less sane than stinson really says something about LIUNA) can understand that condos could make a tidy profit there without public expenditure. How can you justify public spending on an unnecessary office conversion when we are drowning in office space but there are no places for office workers to live?

This is your money that LIUNA wants to spend!

OK, I have little interest in arguing, but I'd like someone to clear up the facts. I recall that LIUNA's original plans were to rebuild a "replica" Lister for condos. The reason they've switched to office space is that, having been forced to keep the building, the existing space doesn't really support condos. I may be remembering that in reverse though.

In any case, there isn't a lot of market for condos either. The unfinished condo building on Rebecca has been in construction for five years and still has vacancies. The Royale on James is apparently still embarrassingly empty.

If the city mandates that LIUNA does X with their building, I don't find it unreasonable that they should ask the city for a contract in return to justify the change. The mistake is that the city negotiated itself into a corner where either the Lister Block stays closed and collapsing, or we give LIUNA a plum contract worth three times the going office-space rent to renovate. We would have done better to let them rebuild, but use our major-tenant's clout to get involved in the new building's design.

raisethehammer · #**789** Posted **Apr 25, 2008, 11:11 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by NuclearNerd

OK, I have little interest in arguing, but I'd like someone to clear up the facts. I recall that LIUNA's original plans were to rebuild a "replica" Lister for condos. The reason they've switched to office space is that, having been forced to keep the building, the existing space doesn't really support condos. I may be remembering that in reverse though.

In any case, there isn't a lot of market for condos either. The unfinished condo building on Rebecca has been in construction for five years and still has vacancies. The Royale on James is apparently still embarrassingly empty.

If the city mandates that LIUNA does X with their building, I don't find it unreasonable that they should ask the city for a contract in return to justify the change. The mistake is that the city negotiated itself into a corner where either the Lister Block stays closed and collapsing, or we give LIUNA a plum contract worth three times the going office-space rent to renovate. We would have done better to let them rebuild, but use our major-tenant's clout to get involved in the new building's design.

LIUNA never planned condos. They were going to build a 'replica' for office space.
The lofts on Rebecca were finished years ago and as far as I know, the building is full.

realcity · #**790** Posted **Apr 25, 2008, 1:04 PM**

^ that's correct. the Loft/condos are all sold on Rebecca. THe only thing empty is the street level. They're searching for a restaurant, which is unfortunate because it gives the impression that the building is still empty.

----
This is ridiculous. Now King William north side will match the south side. Well Done City of Hamilton.

realcity · #**791** Posted **Apr 25, 2008, 1:07 PM**

A Lister conversion to condos would be easier to sell then office space. Unless of course you've got a big fish (sucker) on the end of the line like a government tennant. It seems LIUNA/Hi Rise are only interested in dealing with the government. Bay Street, Federal Bldg proposal -- charging an obscene amount for rent and now suckering the City into a deal.

If they just tried the condo path, it would work. Only too much work for them I guess. It's easier to take tax payers money since no one is accountable, they can rip all they want and get away with it.

realcity · #**792** Posted **Apr 25, 2008, 1:14 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by NuclearNerd

OK, I have little interest in arguing, but I'd like someone to clear up the facts. I recall that LIUNA's original plans were to rebuild a "replica" Lister for condos. The reason they've switched to office space is that, having been forced to keep the building, the existing space doesn't really support condos. I may be remembering that in reverse though.

In any case, there isn't a lot of market for condos either. The unfinished condo building on Rebecca has been in construction for five years and still has vacancies. The Royale on James is apparently still embarrassingly empty.

If the city mandates that LIUNA does X with their building, I don't find it unreasonable that they should ask the city for a contract in return to justify the change. The mistake is that the city negotiated itself into a corner where either the Lister Block stays closed and collapsing, or we give LIUNA a plum contract worth three times the going office-space rent to renovate. We would have done better to let them rebuild, but use our major-tenant's clout to get involved in the new building's design.

If Lister-as-office-space is such a good idea. then why doesn't LIUNA convert it to office space and rent it out? Why does it need the city?

I'll tell you why? there is a huge office vacancy rate in the city already -- 25% by some accounts. The City should rent the Stelco Tower or Standard Life or STAY IN THE RIGHT HOUSE. Let Lister be LIUNA's problem.

Make condos, a hotel, a mall, residential (All ages) building, mixed office/doctors/dentists, professionals and build the damn thing. oh that's right it would require using their own money... that's why they want a government deal. They saw how easy it was to get rich from the kit box Federal bldg deal.

As a bonus if they can only just get the City to sign something... anything that implies an interest in being a tennant they can begin construction and when the City fails to live up to the agreement LIUNA/Hi RISE will get to sue the City again, just like they did with the Bay Street location in the 90s. An ever easier way to make money.

Jon Dalton · #**793** Posted **Apr 25, 2008, 2:28 PM**

They should move LIUNA banquet hall there and sell the current one back to the city for - wait for it.... a train station! Then GO can pitch in some money, the city can pitch in the rest, and VIA can use it for free while complaining about the poor location. I wonder if it would be feasible to convert the lister block for this purpose? It's a crazy idea I know, but nothing else seems to work.

I agree that condos in the Lister Block would sell out. However, if they destroy the rest of the block, the desirability factor goes way down. To sell the space, the area needs to be at least progressing in the right direction.

Millstone · #**794** Posted **Apr 25, 2008, 2:35 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by NuclearNerd

In any case, there isn't a lot of market for condos either. The unfinished condo building on Rebecca has been in construction for five years and still has vacancies.

It's not unfinished, it just has no commercial tenants. I bought the last 'vacant' residential unit in January. There are 2 occupied units for sale right now.

I'm really excited about something opening downstairs like a café or a restaurant. Doesn't seem like anybody's biting so far... there's not much to look at from that patio unless the private parking lot next door turns into something more interesting, or the south side of Rebecca does.

hmagazine · #**795** Posted **Apr 25, 2008, 4:06 PM**

Lister: Redacted Paragraph Indicates Heritage Report Advice

http://raisethehammer.org/blog.asp?id=988

realcity · #**796** Posted **Apr 25, 2008, 4:42 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Dalton

They should move LIUNA banquet hall there and sell the current one back to the city for - wait for it.... a train station! Then GO can pitch in some money, the city can pitch in the rest, and VIA can use it for free while complaining about the poor location. I wonder if it would be feasible to convert the lister block for this purpose? It's a crazy idea I know, but nothing else seems to work.

I agree that condos in the Lister Block would sell out. However, if they destroy the rest of the block, the desirability factor goes way down. To sell the space, the area needs to be at least progressing in the right direction.

brilliant idea

raisethehammer · #**797** Posted **Apr 25, 2008, 4:50 PM**

can't say I'm a fan of Bratina's idea to use it to store artifacts....sheesh.
We're already doing that with the old Westinghouse building. Despite the fact, that artists wanted to convert it to lofts.

itsbryan · #**798** Posted **Apr 25, 2008, 4:52 PM**

edit: re-post, nevermind.

I, Sinclair · #**799** Posted **Apr 25, 2008, 4:52 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Millstone

What are you trying to do here, drive people away from downtown even more?

I'm pretty sure people don't come to downtown hamilton because of all the cheap parking. If that was the case, this city would be a boom town.

People might just come downtown if their office was located there, lots of services were available, and (even more) interesting shops opened.

Goldfinger · #**800** Posted **Apr 25, 2008, 5:05 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by realcity

If Lister-as-office-space is such a good idea. then why doesn't LIUNA convert it to office space and rent it out? Why does it need the city?

Because white elephants require deep pockets, and the restoration of that dog is nothing more than that.

Restoring the building is too expensive for either uses, condos would have to start at over 350K for a 600 sf unit with no warranty. That's not going to fly in working class Hamilton and your not going to get construction financing with that business plan.

If you do get a sucker to dish out 350-900K for their unit, you will need to inform them that there is no parking available. I can't even see a bank offering mortgages to buyers in a building with no parking at all.