Lister Block | ? | 6 fl | Renovation

[hmagazine]

People need to chill - really. WOW - no wonder Hamilton can't get its act together - everyone is arguing on message boards.

I'd like to note that I liked sites like Skyscraper and Raise the Hammer a whole lot more when it was positive responses making up the commentary - it just seems like folks want to stir it up for some reason lately.

Remember my question for Civic Drinks tomorrow night and ask yourself this: What have you done for your city lately?

Complaining on message boards doesn't count!

[LikeHamilton]

I was talking to one of the senior fire department personnel that responded to the Lister Block collapse. The original call came in as an explosion. This was due to the loud noise it made collapsing and there was no explosion.
What they found was that more than ¾ of the 4th floor had collapsed down. This was not evident from the outside. It was still light out and they called a second alarm for the call and where able to get people into the building to search it. They found no signs of fire or smoke. Thermal imaging camera’s where used inside the building and they found no signs of any heat in the building.
As to the natural gas leak, the gas to the building was shut off and lock at the gas meter and the meter removed. This is what the gas company does when they turn the service off to a building. They do not remove anything unless a demolition permit is applied for and approved. The gas leak was caused by the collapsing building severing the line to the gas meter connection and it got buried. There was real concern by the fire department of an explosion and fire due to high readings of gas in the building and area. The gas had to be shut off to the area by a valve under King William Street.

[matt602]

Wow this thread got horribly stupid REALLY fast.

Thanks for the accurate information LikeHamilton.

Anyway, to get back on topic: the Lister Block chimney is nearly completely knocked down now. There's only about 1/4 of it left. The demolished building is also nearly completely gone. Just a chunk on the East wall of the Lister that needs to be slowly taken down. All of today was spent setting up scaffolding on the edge of Lister (probably so that they can carefully seperate Lister from the old building being they are very integrated) and cleaning up King William so that all the businesses can open again (including Thai Memory finally). I really hope Thai Memory can get back on their feet as soon as possible. They were hit REALLY hard by all of this and they certainly need a pick me up.

[BCTed]

Originally Posted by BrianE

This building is not worth this righteous over the top grandstanding that some people are displaying. This will only damage your credibility for when the wrecking ball is standing in front of the lister building.

My favourite example of this was when people on here went on and on about what a beautiful and historic building we lost when HMP went down. It was nothing more than a boxy car garage... you would have thought we were losing Dundurn Castle or something.

[BCTed]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

or at least contribute something worthwhile every so often instead of just complaining and wasting all of our time (like BC Ted).

You waste a lot of time. I make sense.

[BCTed]

Originally Posted by hmagazine

People need to chill - really. WOW - no wonder Hamilton can't get its act together - everyone is arguing on message boards.

I'd like to note that I liked sites like Skyscraper and Raise the Hammer a whole lot more when it was positive responses making up the commentary - it just seems like folks want to stir it up for some reason lately.

Remember my question for Civic Drinks tomorrow night and ask yourself this: What have you done for your city lately?

Complaining on message boards doesn't count!

Welcome to the board, hmagazine.

[BCTed]

Originally Posted by matt602

Wow this thread got horribly stupid REALLY fast.

Thanks for the accurate information LikeHamilton.

Anyway, to get back on topic: the Lister Block chimney is nearly completely knocked down now. There's only about 1/4 of it left. The demolished building is also nearly completely gone. Just a chunk on the East wall of the Lister that needs to be slowly taken down. All of today was spent setting up scaffolding on the edge of Lister (probably so that they can carefully seperate Lister from the old building being they are very integrated) and cleaning up King William so that all the businesses can open again (including Thai Memory finally). I really hope Thai Memory can get back on their feet as soon as possible. They were hit REALLY hard by all of this and they certainly need a pick me up.

I would like to go on the record as saying that guys like matt602 and SteelTown are model citizens on this board and I am happy that they are here. I usually disagree with their opinions, but at least these guys are tolerant and respectful enough to hear me out without automatically putting disparaging labels on me or referring to my posts as "stupid" or "hilarious".

If there were more guys like them on here and less of the militant majority, we could actually have discussions on here rather than brawls.

[raisethehammer]

did anyone attend the military-style intimidation tactics tonight at council??

[Goldfinger]

Originally Posted by BCTed

I would like to go on the record as saying that guys like matt602 and SteelTown are model citizens on this board and I am happy that they are here. I usually disagree with their opinions, but at least these guys are tolerant and respectful enough to hear me out without automatically putting disparaging labels on me or referring to my posts as "stupid" or "hilarious".

If there were more guys like them on here and less of the militant majority, we could actually have discussions on here rather than brawls.

Ditto to that.

[coalminecanary]

Originally Posted by FairHamilton

lol, a collection of people with a common point of view. But, it's not a group huh.

My point was simply that the idea of showing up to the council meeting was just a suggestion to show council that there are people in the community that care about the minimum property standards bylaw, and would like to see it enforced in order to reduce the number of future demolitions by neglect.

I was just trying to stress the fact that the people who might show up are not part of any specific organization. These people have never met before. They are not an organized group. So yes, by definition they are a collection of people with like interests: a group. But when you said "I'm not a part of this group" you implied that a group already existed. All I was trying to say was that nobody should feel excluded from this "group" -- anyone who cares to see these decaying buildings kept to a minimum standard should speak up and be heard because council must not be hearing it enough

Anyway, lots of action at council tonight... a large number of Flamborough residents with t-shirts and all! And a large number of people from all over the city trying to get the property standards issue noticed. Standing room only!

[beanmedic]

Originally Posted by Goldfinger

Ditto to that.

Same guy.

[Millstone]

Flamborough's really getting screwed in this whole amalgamation thing.

[SteelTown]

Amalgamation and Lister Block aren't related so keep this thread to its original theme.

[DC83]

Originally Posted by matt602

Wow this thread got horribly stupid REALLY fast.

Thanks for the accurate information LikeHamilton.

Anyway, to get back on topic: the Lister Block chimney is nearly completely knocked down now. There's only about 1/4 of it left. The demolished building is also nearly completely gone. Just a chunk on the East wall of the Lister that needs to be slowly taken down. All of today was spent setting up scaffolding on the edge of Lister (probably so that they can carefully seperate Lister from the old building being they are very integrated) and cleaning up King William so that all the businesses can open again (including Thai Memory finally). I really hope Thai Memory can get back on their feet as soon as possible. They were hit REALLY hard by all of this and they certainly need a pick me up.

Thanks for the update, Matt. I am avoiding this area like crazy lately as it's too depressing to see in real life.

Lets hope they're a lot more careful removing the attached portions than they were 'saving' historical elements last time... we all saw what happened then! It's amazing no one was hurt!

I'll head down soon to take a look... but I may need some moral support! hahaha

[raisethehammer]

Originally Posted by coalminecanary

My point was simply that the idea of showing up to the council meeting was just a suggestion to show council that there are people in the community that care about the minimum property standards bylaw, and would like to see it enforced in order to reduce the number of future demolitions by neglect.

I was just trying to stress the fact that the people who might show up are not part of any specific organization. These people have never met before. They are not an organized group. So yes, by definition they are a collection of people with like interests: a group. But when you said "I'm not a part of this group" you implied that a group already existed. All I was trying to say was that nobody should feel excluded from this "group" -- anyone who cares to see these decaying buildings kept to a minimum standard should speak up and be heard because council must not be hearing it enough

Anyway, lots of action at council tonight... a large number of Flamborough residents with t-shirts and all! And a large number of people from all over the city trying to get the property standards issue noticed. Standing room only!

just read about it in the spec...great job guys!
those signs looked great.

It's about time Hamiltonians start demanding better from our elected leaders. I wish I could have joined you, but kudos to all who cared and were able to show up.

[holymoly]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

just read about it in the spec...great job guys!
those signs looked great.

http://thespec.com/News/Local/article/359144

"...About seven dozen demonstrators attended council last night to show their displeasure at the collapse of a vacant four-storey building on King William Street that is beside the long-shuttered Lister building..."

Good stuff.

[realcity]

Originally Posted by coalminecanary

it's not about this building having been anywhere near "the best", it's more about the problem of its replacement, namely that it's almost guaranteed to be EVEN WORSE than what went before.

Is it just me, or does all this noise about building safety appear to be a thinly guised attempt on LIUNA's part to look like the good guys while basically searching for excuses to bring every building they own surrounding the lister down as soon as possible?

this is exactly why most Hamiltonians lament the loss of our historic buildings. I for one, would 'say take it down' if it was being replaced by something better. And by better I mean,
- no set back,
- taller and denser,
- mixed/multi use,
- post mod architecturally designed (not builder designed, or kit design, like new Fed Building),
- modern features,
- engages the street,
- green roof / LEED,
- no blank walls,
- windows and glass,
- quality craftsmanship, built to last, something we'd fight to save in 100 years.

We're concerned because when they're replaced with the type of building like the plaza at Wilson and James (beside Tivoli) or the one at Catherine and Main or just left empty like 37 James, the Hess Parking Lagoon, HMP, Tivoli, John and Main, Hughson and Main and on and on... that's our concern. Not that the building is super great. Even the Lister is a medium-looking building, but what will replace it? that's the question.

It all adds up the gradual suburbanization of the downtown urban heart.

[the dude]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

The ones that aren't have generally been owned by the same speculators for years or decades with absolutely zero intent on doing anything to their property.
Stinson found this out when he moved to town and started looking for places to buy.
Everyone's a 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 speculator - nobody wants to sell, nor do they want to do anything.
Put the Lister on the market at it's proper price and it will get snatched up.

silvestri has owned that property across from lister for 20 years. you can't win under those circumstances. raise the taxes on the property and all downtown properties and watch the sales begin.

[BrianE]

Originally Posted by realcity

this is exactly why most Hamiltonians lament the loss of our historic buildings. I for one, would 'say take it down' if it was being replaced by something better. And by better I mean,
- no set back,
- taller and denser,
- mixed/multi use,
- post mod architecturally designed (not builder designed, or kit design, like new Fed Building),
- modern features,
- engages the street,
- green roof / LEED,
- no blank walls,
- windows and glass,
- quality craftsmanship, built to last, something we'd fight to save in 100 years.

This is an admirable list of building features to aspire to. Although you may have to compromise on a few things. Like, green roof/LEED, dictating the style of achitecture used.

It's very easy to demand LEED certification when it's not your money paying for it. It is very expensive to meet LEED standards, expensive enough that it could scuttle plans for any replacement building.

Every other feature you listed should be the basic requirements of any new building construction in the downtown core.

Oh, one other thing, what do you mean by "engages the street"?

[raisethehammer]

Engages the street -

in other words, no more shite like the Silvestri building on Caroline which shuns it's street corner.
Or the Ellen Fairclough building on King West which is nothing but a brick wall along the street.
James North buildings 'engage' the street. Lister used to engage the street.
We need buildings that open to the street and are full of life, various uses and pedestrian scaled.
No more Convention Centre bunkers or CIBC cold, empty, TO-style glass streetfronts.