Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[Dave2]

Anyone notice that the caption on the photo in the "Taser" storey claimed it was Nanaimo Station, but it had a centre platform?

[Dave2]

The "Two Up" at Commerical Drive is great, hope they make that permanent... the "switch them around" experiment scheduled for later this week may make sense at the bottom, but at the top I can see it leading to people walking into each other as they transition from the "walk on right" of the overpass to the "down's on the left" escalator, crossing the path of those coming up the formerly down-running escalator.

(and then there was this idiot actually trying to ride his bike through the masses on the broadway overpass this morning)

[Nutterbug]

Originally Posted by zivan56

Not paying a ticket is not an arrestable offense.

Not providing sufficient ID or fleeing when approached for a ticket is, isn't it?

[zivan56]

Originally Posted by Nutterbug

Not providing sufficient ID or fleeing when approached for a ticket is, isn't it?

You are only required to give your name to the police, and nothing more. In fact, they can't arrest you for not having ID...especially physically hurt you. They could give you a fine (for not having a ticket) and that's it.
As for fleeing when approaching, well that is a pretty gray area, as their authority on the Skytrain system is vaguely defined. They can't approach your house and ask to see if you paid your property taxes...well they could, but you are not required to say anything to them.
From what I recall, they are supposed to assist (blue coat people) in checking tickets, as a side job of keeping transit passengers safe. It is not their job to check tickets at all.

[Nutterbug]

Originally Posted by zivan56

You are only required to give your name to the police, and nothing more.

And how reliable is that?

[deasine]

i guess that is why kevin falcon was suggesting to change a few laws, after his europe subways visit.

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by Nutterbug

And how reliable is that?

Quite unreliable.....

[jlousa]

Acutally it is against the law if you can't produce ID when requested. When I worked for the govenment I used to see lots of tickets for it, they would almost never be by themselves it would usally be in relation to another ticket. I don't think the police walks around asking people at random for ID.

[SpongeG]

my friend never has id when he has been caught

and the one time they ticketed him he gave them a fake address and name

[vanlaw]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

my friend never has id when he has been caught

and the one time they ticketed him he gave them a fake address and name

He just got lucky. Next time he's going to get 50,000 volts straight to the chest!

[Nutterbug]

Originally Posted by vanlaw

He just got lucky. Next time he's going to get 50,000 volts straight to the chest!

We can only hope.

[Nutterbug]

Anyways, the least the transit cops can do is carry around a camera and snap a shot of everybody they nab for their records. Then if any fare evading delinquent gives them a false name and address, they'll have their picture to put out an alert for to all the other transit cops.

[twoNeurons]

That's a good idea. And with some face recognition technology they could scan a database on PDAs when querying for tickets.

[zivan56]

Originally Posted by Nutterbug

And how reliable is that?

Who cares? It's the law...there is no mandatory ID in Canada.
Personally, I believe that tasering someone who doesn't have a ticket is assult...and a court of law would prove that. When do you draw the line? You didn't pay your phone bill and they come and taser you? Love how you ignored the main issue though (legality of assaulting someone who has not committed an arrestable crime). You could theoretically kill them for attacking you in such a sever manner (self defence)...

[Nutterbug]

Originally Posted by zivan56

Who cares? It's the law...there is no mandatory ID in Canada.
Personally, I believe that tasering someone who doesn't have a ticket is assult...and a court of law would prove that. When do you draw the line? You didn't pay your phone bill and they come and taser you? Love how you ignored the main issue though (legality of assaulting someone who has not committed an arrestable crime). You could theoretically kill them for attacking you in such a sever manner (self defence)...

Laws without enforcement are as good as naught.

Err on the side of effective law enforcement, not criminals' rights. Don't want to get zapped? Don't do it.

As for your phone bill example, there's a simple and effective way of getting you for that--cut off your phone service.

[deasine]

As long as we have faregates, there will be no excuse for anyone purchasing a ticket.

[zivan56]

^^ Definitely a good solution.

Originally Posted by Nutterbug

Laws without enforcement are as good as naught.

Err on the side of effective law enforcement, not criminals' rights. Don't want to get zapped? Don't do it.

As for your phone bill example, there's a simple and effective way of getting you for that--cut off your phone service.

"get zapped?" Have you ever been tasered? It's not exactly a zap...and the long term effects are completely unknown. It's the equivalent of the police forcing you to take drugs which have unknown effects so they can physically take control of you. In most countries, police doing that is considered criminal assault, and they are fired instantly (and automatically prosecuted)

As for the phone bill. Ok, then throw the person off the transit system (or ban them). Not physically assult them and perhaps kill them. I guess you don't see how serious police authoritarianism is. It kind of reminds me of the Chinese new year transportation problem, where the police used a cattle prod to keep people in a line up (they were just standing there).

EDIT: The solicitor general didn't want to admit it...and just said the "police follow procedures" and didn't say anything (on CTV). I guess he took a cue from president Harper.

[Nutterbug]

Originally Posted by zivan56

"get zapped?" Have you ever been tasered? It's not exactly a zap...and the long term effects are completely unknown. It's the equivalent of the police forcing you to take drugs which have unknown effects so they can physically take control of you. In most countries, police doing that is considered criminal assault, and they are fired instantly (and automatically prosecuted)

As for the phone bill. Ok, then throw the person off the transit system (or ban them). Not physically assult them and perhaps kill them. I guess you don't see how serious police authoritarianism is. It kind of reminds me of the Chinese new year transportation problem, where the police used a cattle prod to keep people in a line up (they were just standing there).

Now you just have to make the distinction between flagrant violators with no respect for the law and people just standing around.

How can you be so sympathetic of troublemakers that get tazered, when the situation was entirely preventable on their part?

[G-Slice]

A taser is a potentially deadly weapon, even if it isn't legally defined as such (yet). They shouldn't be allowed to even TOUCH somebody for not paying a transit fare. I can't wait until they taser somebody with the time and money to sue these guys.

[Nutterbug]

Originally Posted by G-Slice

A taser is a potentially deadly weapon, even if it isn't legally defined as such (yet). They shouldn't be allowed to even TOUCH somebody for not paying a transit fare.

They should for resisting arrest.

Of course they shouldn't just go crazy with it and fry them for 10 minutes like the guys at the airport. Just give them enough to subdue them if they give you trouble.