PHILADELPHIA | American Commerce Center | 1,510' Pinnacle / 1,210' Roof | 63 FLOORS - Page 29

bucks native · #**561** Posted **Apr 15, 2008, 10:41 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by NDPhilly

Philadelphia`s population has droped in the last few years. This may be what they need to build it back up.Please reply

Center City's population has increased significantly in the past 20 years. And it's expanding. Check the stats at the Center City District website.

Live from Philly · #**562** Posted **Apr 15, 2008, 12:58 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by NDPhilly

Philadelphia`s population has droped in the last few years. This may be what they need to build it back up.Please reply

Philadelphia's population has been declining since the 1950's, when it was over 2 million.

This isn't unique to Philly, most large Eastern cities have been losing people for years. Boston, Baltimore, DC etc. NYC is obviously an exception.

However, the rate of decrease in population has actually dropped significantly in Philly over the last several years. I don't have the stats in front of me, but Boston, Baltimore etc have higher rates of declining population lately than Philadelphia.

relnahe · #**563** Posted **Apr 15, 2008, 2:34 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninjawho

Are people moving into West and South Philly...not really...

You must not get out at all.

Esp w/ South Philly. and I'm not even talking about the tens of thousands of illegal immigrants that have popped up in the last few years because they won't be on any census.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninjawho

but I guess we'll see if this is the start of a Renaissance or not

Its already started friend.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Live from Philly

However, the rate of decrease in population has actually dropped significantly in Philly over the last several years. I don't have the stats in front of me, but Boston, Baltimore etc have higher rates of declining population lately than Philadelphia.

Don't you know? According to some posters here, Philadelphia is the only city to suffer population loss in the entire world.

Ninjawho · #**564** Posted **Apr 15, 2008, 8:33 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by relnahe

You must not get out at all.

Esp w/ South Philly. and I'm not even talking about the tens of thousands of illegal immigrants that have popped up in the last few years because they won't be on any census.

Its already started friend.

I live near Girard. I get out alot actually. As far as I know, there is no No. Lib. type of redevelopment in the west and besides Bella Vista, in the South.

Tens of thousands of illegal immigrants? Really? Thats alot of people you're talking about. Are you talking about the Hispanics and Asians near the Italian Market? Many of those people don't even live in the city.

A Renaissance has definitely started in Philly. That's obvious. But I still feel like its centered around CCBD or adjacent areas like Penn and No. Lib. Obviously it has to start somewhere, but thats a little different than saying the whole city is undergoing massive changes. The shools still suck, and crime isn't really being taken care of, (This year the murder rate is down but it seems like thats just a nature downturn...not because of Nutter or anything.) Those two issues could really hamper growth in the coming years. Then again it might not. If ACC gets built and a few major tenants are secured I think it will take us "to the next level", so to speak and definately further growth at least somewhat. Whether that results in alot of people moving back in remains to be seen.

i_am_hydrogen · #**565** Posted **Apr 15, 2008, 8:56 PM**

What does any of this have to do with the ACC? Let's get back on topic, please...

kraggman · #**566** Posted **Apr 16, 2008, 1:03 AM**

Two weeks old but at least it's about ACC.

AMERICAN COMMERCE CENTER HIGHLIGHTS BUILDING BOOM IN POSSIBLE RECESSION.

The American Commerce Center has shed light on an ongoing construction boom in Center City.

The building plans will make it the tallest in the city by its completion in 2012, as reported by The Temple News, despite fears over a struggling U.S. economy. The American Commerce Center announcement came on the heels of a proposal to raze one of the Philadelphia’s oldest skyscrapers, the 1896 Stephen Girard Building at 12th and Market Streets.

The Delaware Riverfront is seeing a well-publicized condominium crunch, including plans for the tallest residential tower in the city and The Delano, a 269-unit, 30-story luxury apartment tower developed by Walnut Street Capital, the same company behind the American Commerce Center. That crunch has lasted for at least two years, including launches of Marina View, 101 Sky and the 950-foot-tall, $600 million Bridgeman’s View from March 2006.

The Pennsylvania Convention Center is under a massive expansion bringing it to 1 million square feet, including the largest contiguous exhibit space in the Northeast, and there are as many as 26 new hotel projects in and around Center City that could bring more than 2,500 new hotel rooms in Philadelphia by 2011, when the first conventions are expected to come to their newly expanded home. Still, all construction has suddenly been overshadowed by the American Commerce Center behemoth.

Walnut Street Capital bought the mixed-use lot at 1800 Arch Street in October. Since then, the group hired Kohn Pederson Fox, an architecture firm, and developed plans for an $800 million, 2.2 million-square-foot, 63-story office tower standing 1,500 feet tall, with an adjacent 26-story hotel, according to PhillySkyline.com, which first broke the story March 13. As proposed, it would be taller than the Empire State Building in New York City, making it the second tallest building in the United States, behind the Sears Tower in Chicago. The American Commerce Center would be 525 taller than the recently completed Comcast Center, which officially becamethe tallest building in Philadelphia in a ceremony in June 2007. That building is located at 17th Street and John F. Kennedy Boulevard.

The building push comes amid a sagging economy and debates over whether a recession has already begun in the United States. The Philadelphia development company Walnut Street Capital has partnered with a pension fund from Washington state that is financing the project, backed by its $6.18 billion in assets, allowing the American Commerce Center project to avoid the pressure of the country’s economic sluggishness.

Other projects are less independent of fear over available credit. While at least four notable hotel projects of the 26 proposed are underway, perhaps four more have been recently shelved out of financial fears, as first reported by the Philadelphia Business Journal last week.

Link

NDPhilly · #**567** Posted **Apr 16, 2008, 1:21 AM**

I hope this gets approved

Mr Roboto · #**568** Posted **Apr 16, 2008, 3:53 PM**

Yeah this building will really help elevate Philly's skyline status to the elite level if it isnt there already. Certainly top 5 in the US or North America IMO. I think the location is great for a new focal point to the skyline. I look forward to seeing this one rise

lexicon506 · #**569** Posted **Apr 16, 2008, 4:43 PM**

Quote:

I don't have the stats in front of me, but Boston, Baltimore etc have higher rates of declining population lately than Philadelphia.

Really?...because I just checked population stats and Boston, while it's not growing at a fast rate, has had positive population growth since 1990. Washington, even though it had trouble in the past, is posting an almost 3% increase from 2000 to 2007. Even Baltimore has seen 0.7% growth from 2000-2006!

Philadelphia, on the other hand, has had negative growth since 1960 and has already lost more population percentage-wise in 2000-2006 (-4.6%) than it did in 1990-2000 (-4.3%).

Just trying to set the facts straight.

tua21506 · #**570** Posted **Apr 16, 2008, 6:45 PM**

It's hard for me to believe that the population of Philadelphia is dropping. I have lived in the city for many years and have seen how desolate it was. In the past few years however i have have seen congestion and traffic more than double. I have seen properties and houses that for many years were abandoned refurbished and moved into. This is not just true of center city but of the city as a whole. I really find it hard to believe that the population is still in decline. If you were to take a time machine back even just ten years and compared the differences you would definitely see what i am talking about...One factor that may bolster center city's numbers in reality but not on paper is the number of students living here but are technically residents of other areas. It is a documented fact that the student bodies of most of Philadelphia's colleges and university's has greatly increased. I know people who live here after college and still keep there residency somewhere else.

UCityGardener · #**571** Posted **Apr 16, 2008, 8:31 PM**

"The Delaware Riverfront is seeing a well-publicized condominium crunch, including plans for the tallest residential tower in the city and The Delano, a 269-unit, 30-story luxury apartment tower developed by Walnut Street Capital, the same company behind the American Commerce Center. That crunch has lasted for at least two years, including launches of Marina View, 101 Sky and the 950-foot-tall, $600 million Bridgeman’s View from March 2006."

Delano is the old Marina View proposal and there is currently NO activity on the site. 101 Sky might as well be dead, because it's remained a Disney-type hole at Front & Spring Garden for at least a few years. Bridgeman's View was just postponed as published recently in the PBJ.

Temple-News needs to check their facts before publishing.

Don098 · #**572** Posted **Apr 16, 2008, 8:39 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by tua21506

It's hard for me to believe that the population of Philadelphia is dropping.

I am a geographer and what people are likely looking at is the county of Philadelphia's population compared to the city boroughs of Boston, NY, and DC. Philadelphia proper is indeed losing people, but at an increasingly slower rate to the point were the loss is virtually negligible and stabilized. All census data that is done between decennial censuses is based on polling, and the margin of error really needs to be looked at, so just looking at the sign of the trend isn't really doing a proper analysis when the numbers are within that margin or error, say 2-4%. It's really a moot point because within the next decade we're going to see a trend reverse the white flight and rust belt of the NE as the world moves back into cities. More than half of the world's population now lives in urban areas, and that trend is going to continue. The majority of cities are going to start seeing people move back in, and Philadelphia is well positioned to be a leader of the NE because of it's massive losses from the past and it's Metropolitan Statistical Area being larger than Boston or DC to draw from.

I believe Temple News is a student-run newspaper, which are usually really bad since everyone is in the process of learning how to be a journalist. It's just an exercise rather than a reputable information source. Am I wrong? I know the daily collegian at Penn State is supposed to be one of the best student newspapers in the country yet we still considered it the laughing stock of the university...Just saying...don't get all flustered over a student newspaper, you should all know better than that.

kraggman · #**573** Posted **Apr 16, 2008, 8:58 PM**

Didn't mean to stir up controversy, with the Temple News thing. It's obviously not the NY Times. It was meant to get back on topic.

As a matter of fact, there is very little info out there about ACC at this time. The ax must be grinding behind closed doors.

UCityGardener · #**574** Posted **Apr 16, 2008, 9:10 PM**

I just looked up Metropolitan population changes via the US Census Bureau. Here's what's happened between 2000 and 2007 in the 4 Northeastern Metros we're discussing:

Baltimore Metro added 115,060 or +4.5%
Boston Metro added 90,517 or +2.1%
Philadelphia Metro added 140,817 or +2.5%
Washington Metro added 510,502 or +10.6%

This data can be found at:http://www.census.gov/popest/estimates.php

The best I could find drilling down in some other areas of the Census Bureau was that between April 1, 2000 and July 1, 2004 the following changes to core cities had been measured:

Baltimore had lost 14,903 or -2.3%
Boston City had lost 20,076 or -3.4%
Philadelphia City had lost 47,399 or -3.1%
Washington DC had lost 18,536 or -3.2%

This data can be found here: http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/

So as you can see, all inner cities are losing population. I seriously doubt that Baltimore, DC, and Boston reversed the trend in the middle of the decade, but there is no reliable information to validate that statement. Lexicon506, where are you getting your data?

Don098 · #**575** Posted **Apr 16, 2008, 10:12 PM**

Yea I'm curious where that data's coming from too. What's really funny is trying to demonstrate a positive trend of less than 1% over 6 years. It's hard to stay on topic when the thread is about a proposal. It's like the lull between the beginning of free agency and the NFL draft. Everything and anything becomes a story in an environment starving for a story. If we were to only comment on concrete news articles and developments, this thread would be stagnant for weeks and merely punctuated by a flurry of responses to new developments, and I'd bet that most people on here would not enjoy that. You might as well fill space with stuff that is indirectly related, however certainly relevant. I mean it's not like we're not talking about the Eagles or something on here. At least that's my philosophy.