mcmahon stadium

[craner]

Originally Posted by Jay in Cowtown

Another thought I had was now that harness racing is all but a memory at Stampede Park... renovate the 20 000 seat grandstand they already have down there and build a new 20 000 seat one on the other side. Removable seating on the endzones to allow the chuckwagon track to still be usable. Then you have have the multi-million dollar Stampede plus the Stampeders all in one venue... thus making it economically viable, not to mention the stadium would be downtown!

This idea has also crossed my mind - I think it's worth investigating. It always bothered me that the Stampede grandstand is nicer than the football stadium. We are now a city of over 1 million and we need an outdoor venue that is not an embarrassment.

and the sad thing is, McMahon is probably the fourth best stadium in the CFL!

Yeah - this is indeed a sad fact.

[DLLB]

Originally Posted by Surrealplaces

Yup, McMahon is a joke. If Winnipeg can build a new stadium, then there's no excuse for Calgary.

I agree fully!

Again, for a city the size and stature of Calgary, it is a huge disgrace. The Stamperers, the city and CFL should be embarrased to have the team play in such a 4th rate facility.

Go Winnipeg Go. I hope you succeed to show the dead beats here what can be done.

[thurmas]

you could probably renovate mcmahon for $60- 80 million, I would expande and renovate the concourses, add more washrooms and concession stands,rip out all the seats and replace with new seats with backs, add some more corporate boxes and the stamps are going to build new offices and training facilities soon anyways so in the end it could be a nice stadium. I would keep Mcmahon in the 35,000 seat range because cfl ball draws about 30-35000 a game it works better in cozy stadiums than giant 70000 seat stadiums like the big O in Montreal which can kill football.

[EastVanMark]

The Stamps did attempt to piggy back with the Flames to push for both a new stadium and a new hockey arena, but the Flames wanted no part of it.

A new stadium right on the new extended stampede grounds would have been perfect. If it had a retractable roof, it could have been connected to the Round-Up Centre and used as additional exhibition space. Also, during the Stampede, they stadium could have hosted the rodeo like Reliant Stadium does in Houston.

Calgary has emerged as a world class city, and as such deserves world class facilities.

[Jay in Cowtown]

Originally Posted by EastVanMark

The Stamps did attempt to piggy back with the Flames to push for both a new stadium and a new hockey arena, but the Flames wanted no part of it.

A new stadium right on the new extended stampede grounds would have been perfect. If it had a retractable roof, it could have been connected to the Round-Up Centre and used as additional exhibition space. Also, during the Stampede, they stadium could have hosted the rodeo like Reliant Stadium does in Houston.

Calgary has emerged as a world class city, and as such deserves world class facilities.

The main grandstand at the Stampede grounds is by far the best outdoor facility in Calgary, not to mention the infield grandstand is only about 8 years old and has about 30 corporate suites... It's by no means in need of replacing, but I get what you're saying, a multi use stadium down there would be outstanding!

by the way, I've been to Reliant for Texans games and Rodeo Houston... it's a great football stadium, but a fucking horrible rodeo arena.

[Beltliner]

Just to follow up a posting from another thread:

Originally Posted by Innersoul1

Hello Lads, I have been reading today and not really posting, trying to think of something useful to say with regard to this stadium idea. Although in theory the stacked stadium idea makes sense it is a preposterous idea that ultimately will never float.

I mean who wants to feel like they are going into the centre of the earth to watch a hockey game. The Diagram (well executed by the way) points to the fact that spectators would have long lengths to travel to get to their seats from the concourse (down down down) is what I see. If concerts were to be held in the arena portion, the logistics of moving equipment in and out would certainly be a challenge.

Ultimately, the design shown above would look MASSIVE and something that big would demand a stunning architectural exterior. Something incomparable to anything current stadium in the world. I don't think that we could truly justify a building of this type, it would just be too costly.

First and foremost, I think that we are getting ahead of ourselves here. Allow me to make a couple of points below.

Mega-multi-use stadiums just don't work. We certainly have the engineering capabilities to create it but it just doesn't work for creating dynamic (sorry) spaces. For example:

Any stadium with an athletic track immediately moves the spectators back from the playing surface. This means ideal seating for track events but not so much for sports (soccer, football, rugby etc). This is the reason why you often see the first 20 row of seats at stadia such as Rogers Centre (the issue at Rogers it that it's the last of the cookie-cutters, and very much a baseball-first stadium, so any brand of football is going to be the poor cousin there [/digression]) and Commonwealth tarped over. This means that you lose the intimate feeling of being close to the action. I have watched soccer games in Italy and many of the stadia are like this it is a horrible fan experience.


Sure, a seating configuration that moves over the track is possible but this causes issues with the linkage between the concourse and the bleachers themselves. It just doesn't look pretty.

Hosting an event such as basketball, hockey, lacrosse in such a large space just doesn't work. The seating configuration is poor, there is no flow and there is just a lot of dead space. This can ruin an event. If you recall when the Raptors played at the Skydome:

This is an example of basketball at the Georgia Dome:


Great Football/Soccer stadia offer fans perfect site-lines and a tightness to the field of play. [my emphasis] This involves a field that is virtually right against the edges of the field with steep stands. A great example is Barcelona's Nou Camp Stadium:

This stadium's exterior will be undergoing a renovations by none other that Sir Norman Foster:


The ultimate hockey arenas also offer great site lines, an intimate feel with luxury boxes and solid acoustics.

EVERY stadium needs to have good flow to it, quick access to the concourse for food and beer and ample space in the concourse.

The best idea thus far has been two side-by-side buildings.

Good points on the whole.

FWIW, for football you're not going to find a bad seat between the goal lines at McMahon. As Spartan as the game-day experience may be at times, there is a raucous yet intimate vibe to a Stamps game that would be hard to replicate elsewhere. Interestingly, I was able to discover in my research in City Archives into McMahon that the original long-range goal was to build out the facility as a fully-enclosed 50-row, 60,000-ish-seater bowl; with Canadian football sightlines, though, they quickly and correctly realised that they would have finished with a stadium with 30,000 unsaleable end zone and coffin-corner seats.

All told, it wouldn't be overly hard (relatively speaking from a civil engineering standpoint, I'm sure) to knock out Rows 53 to 70 and the current coffin-corners, and use the 1960-era core grandstands as the base of an expanded, upgraded, and renovated-to-within-an-Angstrom-of-its-life first-rank facility. The pit's already dug, so there's no real excavation expense worth mentioning, right? Getting the concourses up to Reliant or Ford Field code is going to be the really tough part, though.

[EastVanMark]

Ya, but where are your skyboxes, club seats, Jumbotrons that are standard with modern stadiums today. Just adding more seats is like putting $5000 rims on a $200 car.

[Boris2k7]

Originally Posted by Beltliner

Just to follow up a posting from another thread:

Good points on the whole.

FWIW, for football you're not going to find a bad seat between the goal lines at McMahon. As Spartan as the game-day experience may be at times, there is a raucous yet intimate vibe to a Stamps game that would be hard to replicate elsewhere. Interestingly, I was able to discover in my research in City Archives into McMahon that the original long-range goal was to build out the facility as a fully-enclosed 50-row, 60,000-ish-seater bowl; with Canadian football sightlines, though, they quickly and correctly realised that they would have finished with a stadium with 30,000 unsaleable end zone and coffin-corner seats.

All told, it wouldn't be overly hard (relatively speaking from a civil engineering standpoint, I'm sure) to knock out Rows 53 to 70 and the current coffin-corners, and use the 1960-era core grandstands as the base of an expanded, upgraded, and renovated-to-within-an-Angstrom-of-its-life first-rank facility. The pit's already dug, so there's no real excavation expense worth mentioning, right? Getting the concourses up to Reliant or Ford Field code is going to be the really tough part, though.

Spartan is a good choice for describing the McMahon experience. I have the advantage of some really good seating (section F, about 9 rows up, behind the Stamps bench) but game day can be pretty raw. Football here is as bare-bones as it comes, and there is something very attractive about that. Afterall, what are people here for, game or glitz? Exposed and uncomfortable as the stands can be, the Stamps fan might as well be sitting right on the bench next to the players.

Those concourses can get downright chilly though. *brrrrr*

[Innersoul1]

Originally Posted by Boris2k7

Spartan is a good choice for describing the McMahon experience. I have the advantage of some really good seating (section F, about 9 rows up, behind the Stamps bench) but game day can be pretty raw. Football here is as bare-bones as it comes, and there is something very attractive about that. Afterall, what are people here for, game or glitz? Exposed and uncomfortable as the stands can be, the Stamps fan might as well be sitting right on the bench next to the players.

Those concourses can get downright chilly though. *brrrrr*

This prefectly describes the CFL and the CFL fan! It's why I love the game

[Riise]

Originally Posted by Innersoul1

This prefectly describes the CFL and the CFL fan! It's why I love the game

Hahaha, after reading that this morning I was about to post something similar to what you've just said. Personally, I really enjoy how the atmosphere produced by the "spartan" environment. I never really though of how with the stadium being bare-bones it can help focus the crowd's attention on the sporting event rather than the sideshows, and side-entertainment, produced by the amenities provided at modern North American sporting venues. In addition, it can help keep the prawn-sandwich crowd to a minimum. Although I've come to realize that the sporting culture is different on this part of the continent, I'm still disappointed with how going sporting events here are similar to going to a movie in how the experience is like a product to be consumed, where you sit in these big comfy seat eating junk food watching some bloke win a car on the jumbotron, more than an experience to enjoy, where the fans are like an extra players and contribute with their voice.

The Stamps games are the closest sporting events that I've gone to over here that come close to providing the latter experience and, as such, my God do I enjoy them! If a new stadium means that this goes, to hell with it and long live McMahon!

[Boris2k7]

Originally Posted by Riise

... where you sit in these big comfy seat eating junk food watching some bloke win a car on the jumbotron...

This annoys me as well. Why, oh why, must a game be filled with contests-as-dictated-by-corporate-sponsors, every charity from one end of the city to the other, and assorted other random events? You know, I get the occasional one, and some of that stuff is nice to keep the kids interested. But for frack's sake, if you need some padding, couldn't you at least find some half-decent filler material? And couldn't some of those contests take place outside the game? Lots of room for professionalism here. For all the compliments I just made for the feel of the game, the glitz side is extremely amateur and makes me wince every time.

[towerguy3]

Don't be so mean to McMahon Stadium; it served Calgary well in 1988 for the Olympics... But you're right it's time for Calgary to move on and build a bigger stadium!

How about out $ 250 million for the Retractable roof for BC Place? That roof will look like a beauty! Can hardly wait for Campbell to make the BIG announcement!

They were debating an Open roof design (hole in center with uncovered field) but the problem with that is BC Place is a Multi Use facility that houses Trade Shows and Conventions. Having an open air stadium and a grass field would certainly help the Whitecaps if they wished to move into BC Place as a MLS franchise but it would absolutely kill the Trade show and Convention business which probably makes more money for the Government than the BC Lions do.

I think if the BC Lions were BC Place's ONLY tenant, they'd bulldoze BC Place Stadium down in 5 minutes... and Bob Ackles knows that...

So how's Scott Ackles doing out there? I hear you're poised to get granted the Grey Cup next year!!!

[Beltliner]

This Bloomberg story about an emerging crunch in public debt financing for new American stadia was printed in today's edition of The Fishwrap, leading me to surmise that any serious effort to renovate sports facilities or to build them anew is going to take some form of pay-as-you-go private backing in the near future:

Auction-Rate Crisis Hits Stadiums for Saints, Giants (Update1)

By Aaron Kuriloff and Michael McDonald

March 27 (Bloomberg) -- The auction-rate bond crisis is raising borrowing costs on more than sewers and hospitals, forcing some states to pay three times higher interest on 65,000-seat sports arenas with moving roofs and 50-foot video displays.

Debt payments for Louisiana's Superdome, home to the National Football League's New Orleans Saints, ran the state about $1.8 million last month -- up from roughly $500,000 in January -- after interest rates tripled to 12 percent, said Whit Kling, director of Louisiana's bond commission. Some private borrowers are paying even more, with rates on bonds sold by owners of the NFL's New York Giants reaching 22 percent this week, according to a person familiar with the debt.

``I don't think anyone ever anticipated this,'' said John Kennedy, Louisiana's state treasurer. ``We're paying the price.''

States and cities that subsidize sports venues to stimulate the economy have often failed, and this year's credit meltdown will make it even harder to avoid raising taxes or reducing services to cover bills, said Dennis Coates, a professor at the University of Maryland in Baltimore. His studies on the effect of major league franchises on U.S. cities show stadiums hurt residents by steering public and private spending away from health, safety or other forms of entertainment, he said.

[snip]

Way more details in the text of the story itself.

[krazycanuck]

no need for a new stadium. best sightlines of any stadium in the CFL. That's all I need.

[Innersoul1]

Originally Posted by Riise

. In addition, it can help keep the prawn-sandwich crowd to a minimum.

HAHAHAHAHA

I laughed my ass off reading that! Sounds like the Arsenal fans!

I kid I kid!

[pegcityboy]

All McMahon needs is to get rid of the bench seating and put the red seats throughout the whole stadium and maybe replace the dressing rooms in the south end . I have been to all CFL stadiums and McMahon is decent to pretty good as the CFL goes.

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by pegcityboy

I have been to all CFL stadiums and McMahon is decent to pretty good as the CFL goes.

Thats akin to having a C+ average in summer school. Stadiums in the CFL for the most part are prehistoric and don't measure up in today's modern sports world.

[MalcolmTucker]

Hey, the Yale Bowl is one of the most austere stadiums left, and just like other spartan stadiums, it offers some of the best game experience for the fans.

McMahon could use some bathroom upgrades, and actual seats in the entire stadium. I wouldn't want anything close to a modern stadium however, and I am 6'3 and my shins hit the seat in front of my even in the super reds.

Calgary will get an enclosed stadium for football/soccer/concerts/trade shows when the concert need is big enough to make a business case to cover the operating and maintenance costs for a new stadium.

At that time, I could see the university selling the stadium lands for condos and offices and building a maybe 5000 or 10,000 person stadium on the west campus. (5000 person grandstand on one side with a berm for viewing on the others) Would be a good way to make a chunk of change.

Or perhaps the university would kick the stampeders out to make the money, necessitating a new stadium.

[Beltliner]

So are there any CIV E types out here who want to take a whack at discussing a pay-as-you-build, use-what-you-got renovation plan for the old red-and-grey lady?

By the by--picked up my season tickets last week, and this is the first time I've evah seen them bound together in a heavy-stock booklet. Must be some idea John Hufnagel wired over to head office from his last year subscribing to the Jacksonville Jaguars or something.

[Aralaus]

Originally Posted by Boris2k7

Spartan is a good choice for describing the McMahon experience. I have the advantage of some really good seating (section F, about 9 rows up, behind the Stamps bench) but game day can be pretty raw. Football here is as bare-bones as it comes, and there is something very attractive about that. Afterall, what are people here for, game or glitz? Exposed and uncomfortable as the stands can be, the Stamps fan might as well be sitting right on the bench next to the players.

Those concourses can get downright chilly though. *brrrrr*

That's the entire point, the seats are supposed to be cold steel benches, the wind is supposed to be howling, and the snow driving. That's what makes our brand of football tough. Just look at the snowbowl game between Green Bay and Seattle this last winter... greatest game I have ever watched except for maybe New England / Oakland in '01.

But I will agree with you that the concourse is not a place to be open. I would like to see them gut the entire damned thing and refurbish it, double the bathrooms (that's the #1 complaint according to facility people I talked to while I was with the Dinos and Colts), and build a decent facade around them while adding some real office/convention space. There are so many hotels in the area and with the university and sait nearby they surely wouldnt be empty and would justify the investment.

The facility is owned by the University, which sucks, but if they were to allow an equity investment in the facility in exchange for a developer coming in and building it, it could be feasible.