LOS ANGELES | Downtown Project Rundown 3.0

[JDRCRASH]

Originally Posted by ThreeHundred

Funniest thing I've ever read. I'm in — tears right now.

[jlrobe]

"Should taxpayers be subsidizing a royal family?"

Well, the question is, is there a FREE MARKET demand for Mondrian Hotel or a nice community in our civic center? Are there public funds for a signature a 16 acre park? If there is, then I say don't subsidize them, and let the free market work. If not, I think a tax subsidy with public oversight is a good option to move a specific project forward.

The same goes for AEG. LA gave a tax break to a billionare developer, and that might look bad to some, but the truth of the matter is that that tax break may have helped spur well over 3 billion dollars in private investment in the surrounding area over the next few years (sky's the limit). Although AEG gets a tax BREAK (they are still paying some taxes and fees), ALL of the adjacent businesses, residents, and visitors get taxed THE FULL AMOUNT! Remember, AEG is helping the convention center business and the adjacent community. If the conventoin center was in full swing and the adjacent community was already mature, then I would say, screw AEG's tax subsidy. That isnt the case though.

LA has very little risk in these situations. If south park booms, then LA gets a huge new economic generator, if south park flops, then AEG suffers, NOT the public. Win-win. LA's downtown revival is very risky, but I think it is worth it to all Angelenos for politicians to make bold moves to get the revitalization process started. Once downtown catches on, I am sure these private-public partnerships will wane.

On another note. WIth 45% interest in the grand owned by Dubai funds, I am sure this puppy will get off the ground. Those people dont mind taking risks.

[DowntownCharlieBrown]

And this is how conspiracy theories are born. Where do I start...

The subsidies were granted when CalPERS was an investor. CalPERS pulled out because their analysis conveyed to them that the deal was too risky and may lose money.

Anyone with enough money could have stepped in to take the chance of losing it (or at least not get an expected return on their money). The Dubai investor has the same chance of losing money.

You either believe there is public benefit to this project or you don't, you believe tax money should subsidize these types of projects or you don't, but LA will get some low income residences, a huge park, and an eyesore lot will be eliminated. And this was established before Dubai.

Non-stop flights to Dubai with private suits. Is there even a market for this? I guess if they don't fill these planes they could lose a boat load of money on each flight.

And my favorite... Hmmm... it used to be called "Grand Avenue" and now "The Grand". I'm sure those Arabs with their Arab oil money paid someone to change it. Let's start a petition to get "Avenue" back in the name!!! Are you with me?!?!

[colemonkee]

"Grand Avenue" was always a working title for the project. There's no evidence citing that any investor in the project had influence over the name change. Eventually it had to have a marketable name for condo sales. "The Grand", IMO, isn't a bad start.

[colemonkee]

I updated the first page, moving Canvas LA, Mura and Artisan on 2nd to "Completed" status, with new photos (also seen below) for Mura and Artisan on 2nd. Any photogs on this phorum want to get a completed shot of Canvas? I'll post it on the front page if you do.

Now for a Little Smoke-o (Tokyo) update from today:

LAPD HQ

More shots in the LAPD HQ Thread.




San Pedro Apartments

First floor is almost complete. And the rims on this car are only a couple spinners away from being absolutely ghettofabulous.




Mura

Complete!




Artisan on 2nd

Also complete, with people moving in.

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by colemonkee

San Pedro Apartments
First floor is almost complete.

I notice the first floor walls of that bldg are made of concrete, which surprised me when I saw them last wk at the cherry blossom festival. Other than that material being used on tilt up warehouse type of bldgs, I've never seen a residential proj use concrete for its ground level. I'm very curious to see how the devlpr is going to frame the levels above the first one.

Mura
Complete!

This is your photo of that same general location over a yr ago:


colemonkee

The area around the Mura appears to be somewhat safer today, in that if ppl were walking around there waving a tall metal pole, they'd be less likely to get zapped.

Bit by bit, your part of DT is starting to come together.

I still recall when the caltrans bldg was nothing but a big parking lot with a flimsy shack bldg on the north side, much of the site of the new LAPD bldg was either a parking lot or shabby small bldgs along 1st St, & the sites of the Mura & Artisan were major deadzones. Going back even further, I still recall when your bldg, the Higgins, was a grimy, abandoned mess.

I'll say it again: in some crucial ways, DTLA is in better shape today than its been in over 50 to 70 yrs.

[jlrobe]

Originally Posted by Echo Park

I've always ribbed on LA Live because I hate the design and the whole insular mall feel I believe it somewhat gives off and the ugly shameless preoccupation with massive billboards. But one thing I will give credit to the project for is it will achieve one thing DTLA has always lacked: stability. LA Live is here to stay, meaning whatever tenuous grip the economy has on DTLA, we can now guarantee that there will always be activity in DTLA because so many events will be held there thanks to LA Live and there will be a flow of people. The same could be said for Staples Center, and certain Staples Center helped jumpstart the DTLA renaissance, but La Live is a more fleshed out project that will give that area a bit more of a hollywood feel

Suburbanites have the $$$$$$$, so we need to cater to them at least a little bit. Tourism helps hedge economic downturns. I dont like LA live, but with ESPN broadcasting there, and a massive ESPN zone, amongst other things, I think LA live will be popular, despite the fact that it is bland.

Anyhow, bottle rock, kor groups new restuarant, hygee, rivera latin high cuisine, and all sorts of other truly cool places are going in a stones throw away. In addition to those places, there are probably 15 more prime retail spots in the met lofts, market lofts, luma, evo, 717, and hanover that still need to be spoken for. THere is enough room for yoga moms and true urbanists in the district. urbanists dont mind venturing deeper into the neighorhood, while Tarzana folks will probably stick to the LA live campus.

[jlrobe]

Originally Posted by edluva

wow, if i didn't know any better, i'd think some of you are beginning to see things my way the way you're responding to jdr's enthusiasm for bright glimmery billboards. the stupidity i attribute to wannabe developments like la live and the whole "design a building around the billboard" mentality that's so behind la's vain attempts at mimicking times square is making la that much more of a parochial me-too city. a single developer does not build times square, times square happened by itself organically. downtowncharliebrown's mention of that "cheap architect" - LA is built by cheap architects and LA Live continues in that trend. A bunch of the same junk, only more massive and obnoxious.

Just got back from Manhattan. I must say that I utter loathe times square, although the performing arts scene is top notch. Anyhow, I dont like the billboards around LA live, or manhattan. times square seems like anything but organic to me. I do like walkability of south park and bottle rock, hygee, and rivera seem quite promisiing as far as cuisine and quality drinks go. We will see how they turn out when they are completed. i could do without the ads though! I am more of a chelsea, tribea, west village type of guy.

[Quixote]

I generally agree with the notion that underneath all its flashiness, LA Live is essentially an outdoor mall. No doubt it will serve a slew of Valley suburbanites who will enjoy it purely for the thrill of experiencing a faux "night on the town".

But also consider the fact that parking will be non-existent in the entire LA Live complex once the Convention Center expansion gets underway. What's more, I think the developers behind the project tried to mitigate the suburban nature of the project as best they could by eliminating retail (LA Central will profit off that) and securing smaller chain dining establishments. For example, LA Live will be New Zealand Natural Ice Cream's first location outside of New Zealand, Katsuya will have a total of six locations by 2010 (four of them in the LA area), eleven of Yard House's twenty-two restaurants will be in the LA CSA, The Farm of Beverly Hills will have a total of four locales (all in the LA area), and LA Live will be Rosa Mexicano's tenth location. Since ESPN will have its West Coast headquarters at LA Live, the ESPN Zone makes sense. The Grammy Museum, I thought, was going to be lame, but then I found out visitors will have a more hands-on experience with the place. Lastly, the development in LA Live's environs will lure some of that energy away from LA Live and get people to walk.

I see LA Live evolving into more of a district. That will happen over time, of course.

[edluva]

dp..

[edluva]

Originally Posted by LAMetroGuy

Are you referring to LA Live in general or specifically the Ritz? BTW, is there anything you do like (project, building, development, etc.) in any city in any country on any planet?

First of all, the ritz is the only thing about LA Live I "like". Unlike hanover across the street, it is not an enormous parking podium dressed up as a billboard. Just look at that pic of hanover with the glaring blank wall - ridiculous. The reason I end up sounding like a broken record is becuase what I hate more than obvious (and btw, self-affirmed) aspirations toward NYC and in particular, Times Square as the holy grail of urban design, is how easily all of us eat it up - what an insult to think that it may be our popular desire to mimic NYC as though we had no character of our own to offer. — developers in London never felt compelled to build enormous blank walls with the specific aim of creating ad-districts as a counterpoint to Times Square and neither did those in Paris or tokyo - Picadilly and Shibuya are historic in themselves, they evolved cotemporaneously to TS at a time the confluence of technology and commerce enabled ad-districts to occur --there was this thing we call "context", and this organic quality is evident in the fact that their buildings exist on their own architecturally, independent of whatever signage eventually makes its way on their curtainwalls. Paris, chicago, and SF, three very different cities each with their own unique identities, aren't lacking simply because developers weren't encouraged to summarize Times Square, tragically i might add, into three massive developments practically overnight in some Dr. 90210's take on what it means to be a "real city". On the one hand, forumers like you may relish in saying LA is an "art capital which stands on its own" or a "city that does its own thing" and rail against the incessant amount of disrespect aimed at LA, meanwhile trumpeting these pre-packaged Times Squares as though back-handedly affirming our inferiority to NYC et al. Are we really that easy to dupe?

and believe it or not there are some proposals in LA I may like to see go up. I'm just too busy trying to outvoice the desperate cheerleading for nearly anything and everything under the sun. Some examples: park fifth, nouvel's cc proposal. well, that's honestly about it. I can't make enough of "THE GRAND" and its wood-block erector set circulating about this forum to know what it's about at street level so I'll reserve judgement, but I'm not expecting much quality urban design from Gehry, an architect who probably masturbates opposite his ubiquitously mirrored facades. The rest of our developments are utter — which wouldn't see the light of day in any respectable place, and justifying — by saying something along the lines of "LA's strength is its very —" is an excuse not a reason. To answer your question, I can name you a —-ton of projects in SF, Chicago, NY, Paris, London, Tokyo, etc. that I'd love to see go up in LA, but this ain't the LA forum for nothin' right?

so yeah, moving on...

[milquetoast]

OUCH!! Don't go postal on us, now! I agree with a lot of that though. Don't aspire to emulate an intersection in another city that has taken older structures and, instead of tearing them down before they fall down on their own, slaps all manner of billboard construction over them. Kind of like Amy Winehouse applying her eyelid makeup to the pockmarked craters on her cheeks. Just not right to take whole sides of buildings with windows and cover them up with billboards. Nothing commendable about that kind of 'organic' progression. At the very least, LA Live and its environs are designed with the billboards in mind. I will say Hanover's early 20th century wrap-around foundation with the awkward lighting scheme is disappointing, but if you're gonna have a podium you better do something with it. Quit with the NY —. They're an indoor town and they specialize in it. Los Angeles will never be like that- THANK GOD! NY has a hundred year head start on us. Give L. A. a hundred years and you'll see! Well, you will be dead, but the rest of us will be here to see it

[milquetoast]

..and don't go comparing New York to Paris. One is the most beautiful, and one is the most not

[milquetoast]

Originally Posted by ThreeHundred

Surprised no one posted this yet:
AON Readies an Updated Street Presence

I did. In another site. This was my composition. What is your name over there?

[bcpt]

Originally Posted by colemonkee

LAPD HQ

More shots in the LAPD HQ Thread.

this summer when I have been to los angeles, this building nearly did not exist. Very beautiful, downtown LA it's wonderful.

[Just-In-Cali]

[QUOTE=LAMetroGuy;3480235]Are you referring to LA Live in general or specifically the Ritz? BTW, is there anything you do like (project, building, development, etc.) in any city in any country on any planet? What are your feelings about Jupiter's Great Red Spot? Does it upset you that it's too big in terms of scale to the planet? How about Saturns rings??? Do you think that the rings are too far apart or the color scheme just doesn't do it for you? edluva, great we get it, in YOUR opinion... LA has bad architecture and will always continue have bad architecture. Now that you've made your point, can you please for the love of GOD move on, we get it! Not trying to start another "iFight" but just an observation... moving right along.

QUOTE]

Best...Post...EVER!!!
You could put a double wide in New York and he would name his first child after it, conversely you could move the Empire State Bldg here and he would call it a "trashy, gawdy testament to LA's commercialism."

I think the man needs a journal, so he can stop having breakdowns in the LOS ANGELES DOWNTOWN forum....which he obviously hates.
But then I guess we are all cheerleaders. (grabs pom poms)

Anyway,

I am interested in any updates in the City West projects. Any news on their development?

[colemonkee]

Originally Posted by citywatch

[/b]I notice the first floor walls of that bldg are made of concrete, which surprised me when I saw them last wk at the cherry blossom festival. Other than that material being used on tilt up warehouse type of bldgs, I've never seen a residential proj use concrete for its ground level. I'm very curious to see how the devlpr is going to frame the levels above the first one.

A concrete first floor with wood floors above (up to 5 for a total of 6) is Type III construction. Hikari, Medici, Orsini, Peiro, Mura (which you posted a picture of showing the construction), The Medallion and San Pedro Apartments are all Type III with wood over concrete. Most 6 story residential buildings built in the last 5 years in LA county are Type III.

[colemonkee]

People, let's stop with the personal attacks. Everyone's entitled to an opinion. If you don't agree, argue with their opinion, not the person - as long as it stays on topic (about LA projects). Posting any more personal attacks will result in posts deleted and warnings issued.

bcpt, welcome to the forum.

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by Just-In-Cali

But then I guess we are all cheerleaders.

However, to be honest, LA really isn't as good as I'd like it to be cuz Beverly Hills is too much like Mission Viejo. Or, come to think of it, it's cuz Mission Viejo is too much like Beverly Hills. Or, actually, the problem is that Beverly Hills is too much like LA Live. Or LA Live is too much like Times Sq. Or Times Sq is too much like SaMo. Or SaMo is too much like DTLA. Or DT is too much like Hollywood. Or hollywood is too much like Long Bch. Or Long Bch is too much like Mission viejo.

I'm so confused.

I am interested in any updates in the City West projects. Any news on their development?

A friend of mine in the midwest forwarded me a link to the following vid, which is free publicity for one of the new apt bldgs in city West. In fact, it's the one right next to the fwy, directly north of 2nd St: Canvas LA, mentioned by colemonkee in his last post.

Meanwhile, this person attended a promo event held by parkfifth earlier this month:


jesusskateboarding.com at flickr


jesusskateboarding.com at flickr


jesusskateboarding.com at flickr


jesusskateboarding.com at flickr

Originally Posted by DowntownCharlieBrown

There was a discussion in another thread on "balconies" in the past.

Interestingly, only 28% polled that they must have balconies. Of course, the poll does include many from colder climates, so I believe it would be a lot higher in So. Cal. I would most definitely want a balcony if I lived in a highrise.

That may be one of the better selling points of the parkfifth tower, since I believe its balconies are supposed to be quite large.

I notice in the thread you linked to, at least a few SSPers mentioned that while they liked balconies in general, if such areas were too small, they became uncomfortable to walk out onto, esp if they're dozens of stories above the first floor of a bldg. I guess in that case, ppl start to grow nervous about height.

I still don't know what the floor plans of parkfifth will be like, which is another reason it would've been nice if someone at SSP attended the recent sales event. There's been no direct & verifiable update about that proj in quite awhile.

However, I'm hoping the devlpr is going to stick with a more conventional interior, instead of the open loft design. That's cuz potential homebuyers or tenants in DT haven't had as much to pick & choose from when it comes to condos that have traditional interior walls, interior doors, and fully separate bedrms. Of course, this may all be a moot point if the builder can't obtain financing, as has happened with the Titan towers &, considering all the months & months that have come & gone, probably the Glass tower proj too.

[Just-In-Cali]

I will refrain from any 'personal' comments, thought its funny that this same warning wasnt issued earliar to 'others'.

Does anyone know if the rents and prices per square foot have gone up throught downtown, or if this is unique to the Ritz residences?
If that holds true, it may be a signal to developers that the market is still viable, especially since its down everywhere else.