The future of Hamilton's public transit

[SteelTown]

I'll personally donate money to build a giant stop sign next to the new station.

Pretty arrogant for them to simply ignore a station that they pass on by that has the 8th largest populated city in Canada and the 8th largest contributor to VIA's capital fund through taxpayers.

[JT Jacobs]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

I'll personally donate money to build a giant stop sign next to the new station.

Pretty arrogant for them to simply ignore a station that they pass on by that has the 8th largest populated city in Canada and the 8th largest contributor to VIA's capital fund through taxpayers.

Indeed, screw VIA, perhaps. Let's still use our own fantastic train stations and the new platform that emerges for GO transit so that we, at the very least, can demonstrate to VIA just how weak their decision to bypass Hamilton is.

[waterloowarrior]

If St. Mary's, Alexandria, Ingersoll, Strathoy, and Gananoque have VIA service, why shouldn't Hamilton?

[the dude]

...because via is a pathetic excuse for a passenger rail provider. i don't know about the rest of you but i can barely afford a via rail ticket. total jackasses.

[flar]

I guess Glencoe is more important than Hamilton too. And their station is amazing! I mean they have a platform with a roof!

[raisethehammer]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

I'll personally donate money to build a giant stop sign next to the new station.

Pretty arrogant for them to simply ignore a station that they pass on by that has the 8th largest populated city in Canada and the 8th largest contributor to VIA's capital fund through taxpayers.

you ARE personally donating to them already...with your taxes.
And you're getting crap back.

[HAMRetrofit]

The organization is probably run by a group of slack jaw corn bread eating hicks.

[LikeHamilton]

It does not surprise me. I wrote about this 6 months or more about this. The only one that said VIA was coming was the train romantic Bob Bratina.

If you read VIA Rails own study of service to Hamilton, the location at Liuna was at the bottom of their list and undesirable. At the top of there list was the GO Centre if the tunnel and the connection to the main line at Ottawa Street (Gage line) was addressed. They liked this location because it had good connection to public transit and GO bus and train service. It lost marks for parking, highway access and being close to Aldershot. Their second location and scored almost as high was HWY 20 and the QEW. It scored high on highway access, parking and being farther from Aldershot. It lost on public transit and no GO connection.

I expect they will build their own station at the proposed power centre at HWY 20 and the QEW.

I believe the feds should invest in making the TH & B tunnel wider and taller, correct problems with the Gage line and connect the Gage line to the CN main line so the trains can go east and west from the Gage line.

This is nothing that a little money cannot solve. They just gave money to make improvements to the line to Peterborough. They are spending $150 million to put service into and area that was cancelled because no one used it. They are only expecting 200 passengers a week! There is so few passengers going to Toronto from Peterborough that GO says they cannot even justify a bus service.

$150 million would most likely have done the whole Hamilton project and served thousands of people a week.

Like I said, this is not a surprise to me. I was never in favor of a second downtown train station. It does not happen anywhere else. Bringing people to the CN station at Liuna only perpetuates the stereotype of view of Hamilton with some of the poorest areas and old vacant industries and steel mills. Coming into the GO Centre gives you a view of Cootes Paradise and coming out of the tunnel into the downtown, especially after Simpson gets done with it, would give people a better view of Hamilton before they see the steel mills.

[hamiltonguy]

Originally Posted by LikeHamilton

It does not surprise me. I wrote about this 6 months or more about this. The only one that said VIA was coming was the train romantic Bob Bratina.

If you read VIA Rails own study of service to Hamilton, the location at Liuna was at the bottom of their list and undesirable. At the top of there list was the GO Centre if the tunnel and the connection to the main line at Ottawa Street (Gage line) was addressed. They liked this location because it had good connection to public transit and GO bus and train service. It lost marks for parking, highway access and being close to Aldershot. Their second location and scored almost as high was HWY 20 and the QEW. It scored high on highway access, parking and being farther from Aldershot. It lost on public transit and no GO connection.

I expect they will build their own station at the proposed power centre at HWY 20 and the QEW.

I believe the feds should invest in making the TH & B tunnel wider and taller, correct problems with the Gage line and connect the Gage line to the CN main line so the trains can go east and west from the Gage line.

This is nothing that a little money cannot solve. They just gave money to make improvements to the line to Peterborough. They are spending $150 million to put service into and area that was cancelled because no one used it. They are only expecting 200 passengers a week! There is so few passengers going to Toronto from Peterborough that GO says they cannot even justify a bus service.

$150 million would most likely have done the whole Hamilton project and served thousands of people a week.

Like I said, this is not a surprise to me. I was never in favor of a second downtown train station. It does not happen anywhere else. Bringing people to the CN station at Liuna only perpetuates the stereotype of view of Hamilton with some of the poorest areas and old vacant industries and steel mills. Coming into the GO Centre gives you a view of Cootes Paradise and coming out of the tunnel into the downtown, especially after Simpson gets done with it, would give people a better view of Hamilton before they see the steel mills.

I still don't think the Gage connection is unrealistic. You can not run fast trains over the Belt Line and it's impossible to bring it up to the needed standard.

However if Via Was to propose a fast Toronto-Buffulo line via the old TH&B then i'd totally think they'd be on to something.

[flar]

As far as VIA is concerned, they already think they stop in Hamilton since Aldershot and Grimsby are both in the Hamilton CMA.

[SteelTown]

I personally don't care about VIA anyways. Once the GO Lakeshore rail line electrification - SuperGO -happens VIA will look like crap.

The real question is are we going to end up with a little GO Train shack next to LIUNA Station or is the East side of LIUNA Station going to be used as a Station.

[SteelTown]

Originally Posted by LikeHamilton

This is nothing that a little money cannot solve. They just gave money to make improvements to the line to Peterborough. They are spending $150 million to put service into and area that was cancelled because no one used it. They are only expecting 200 passengers a week! There is so few passengers going to Toronto from Peterborough that GO says they cannot even justify a bus service.

$150 million would most likely have done the whole Hamilton project and served thousands of people a week.

Just so you know the Peterborough rail plan has been nixed. Instead the money will go towards GO Bus to Peterborough and GO rail service to Bowmanville.

[flar]

Good to hear that Peterborough line was nixed, that would've been a huge waste and reeked of porkbarreling at its worst.

[mishap]

Originally Posted by LikeHamilton

If you read VIA Rails own study of service to Hamilton, the location at Liuna was at the bottom of their list and undesirable. At the top of there list was the GO Centre if the tunnel and the connection to the main line at Ottawa Street (Gage line) was addressed.

I believe the feds should invest in making the TH & B tunnel wider and taller, correct problems with the Gage line and connect the Gage line to the CN main line so the trains can go east and west from the Gage line.

The city, the province and the feds really have to talk to each other on these things. Even without VIA, the Gage line will have to be fixed. Why? Because in all likelihood, an LRT line will be crossing it! A grade separation will probably be required with whichever street carries the line, Main or King. I cant think of any locations in Toronto where a streetcar crosses a rail line at grade. Separating both Main and King would be better, but I wouldn't count on it.

Property will have to be acquired on Main and/or King adjacent to the rail line for reconstruction. If the railway were smart, they would use this opportunity to acquire the necessary land for a proper connection to the CN mainline. If they were even smarter, they would convince the government to do it for them. Once that is in place, there's a an even stronger argument for upgrading the Hunter Street tunnel.

So indirectly, LRT might lead to a VIA station in the core.

[raisethehammer]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

Just so you know the Peterborough rail plan has been nixed. Instead the money will go towards GO Bus to Peterborough and GO rail service to Bowmanville.

thank goodness. talk about a stupid idea only announced for political purposes.
Yea, tons of people are clamouring for a high speed train trip to peterborough. get real.

[hamiltonguy]

Originally Posted by mishap

The city, the province and the feds really have to talk to each other on these things. Even without VIA, the Gage line will have to be fixed. Why? Because in all likelihood, an LRT line will be crossing it! A grade separation will probably be required with whichever street carries the line, Main or King. I cant think of any locations in Toronto where a streetcar crosses a rail line at grade. Separating both Main and King would be better, but I wouldn't count on it.

Property will have to be acquired on Main and/or King adjacent to the rail line for reconstruction. If the railway were smart, they would use this opportunity to acquire the necessary land for a proper connection to the CN mainline. If they were even smarter, they would convince the government to do it for them. Once that is in place, there's a an even stronger argument for upgrading the Hunter Street tunnel.

So indirectly, LRT might lead to a VIA station in the core.

LRT does not need grade separation, and honestly it's not just grade separation, the line just has too tight of a radius to run trains at a decent speed.

Besides which the costs to buy up the properties on either side of the track would cost a fortune (it would have to be double tracked to run VIA trains through downtown), plus quite frankly I don't think it's right to tell a couple of hundred people "Oh by the way your house is in the way a train line we want to widdened, and you know we don't care that you've lived there years and years but we're taking your land, with compensation that barely matches what the house is worth".

[SteelTown]

Here's a plan I would like to see for the new GO Station....



Express bus service along Hughson St linking up the two Stations. The GO Station using the East side of LIUNA Station, which I think is used for storage. From the Station a walkway perhaps covered like Eastgate to the platform.

[LikeHamilton]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

Here's a plan I would like to see for the new GO Station....



Express bus service along Hughson St linking up the two Stations. The GO Station using the East side of LIUNA Station, which I think is used for storage. From the Station a walkway perhaps covered like Eastgate to the platform.

You know that there is about a 40 to 50 foot drop to the area where you plan to put the parking and connect to Hughson Street? That is why James and John are bridges. What you show as the GO Station is 2 to 3 floors below Liuna Station.

I still don’t know why we need 2 stations in such a small market so close to each other? Downtown Toronto and Montreal only have one. We are shooting ourselves in the foot again. All our efforts should be in getting VIA and extended GO into Hunter Street.

[LikeHamilton]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

Just so you know the Peterborough rail plan has been nixed. Instead the money will go towards GO Bus to Peterborough and GO rail service to Bowmanville.

Not to question the validity of your info but this was a federal VIA project. GO is a provincial project. Right know they are not talking nice to each other. Even if the whole amount goes to GO, it still is a waste as even GO’s own study says there is only 200 passengers a week and does not justify even bus service.

[SteelTown]

Originally Posted by LikeHamilton

Not to question the validity of your info but this was a federal VIA project. GO is a provincial project. Right know they are not talking nice to each other. Even if the whole amount goes to GO, it still is a waste as even GO’s own study says there is only 200 passengers a week and does not justify even bus service.

Peterborough rail link nixed
http://www.torontosun.com/News/Canada/2008/03/29/5136431-sun.html