The Official Saint John, NB Project Thread

[Alberta Bound]

I had the opportunity to fly back to Saint John last week. While there I had a look around at progress on projects posted in this thread.

I also drove around the KV and saw some stuff going on (new building going up on Millenium Drive, new construction at Old Hampton Highway and Pentingill Rd and new construction across from the Sobey's in Rothesay.

Does anyone know what these developments are?

I also went to eat at the Boilerworks in Market Square and we thought it was great. The Montanas will be a good addition and popular as well.

[Helladog]

I had the opportunity to fly back to Saint John last week

How was the visit?

Does anyone know what these developments are?

Re KV: I haven't been out that way in awhile, but besides the residential developments, they're building a Lane's furniture store, I think a new plaza, a seniors complex of some sort, a new bank, and other stuff I can't remember.


As for East side, I noticed LOTS of work starting on the transit building and Ellerdale Street Townhouses are well into phase two. Montanas is open, Starbucks is almost done and Indigo is moving along...The Best Western should be open soon too. Dobson is looking more like a car dealership. If I'm seeing things right, groundwork for Bayside is being done; maybe we'll see steel there soon.

Somerset offices seem to be taking up the entire block with steel; I am wondering where parking will be...

[magee_b]

Originally Posted by Alberta Bound

I also drove around the KV and saw some stuff going on (new building going up on Millenium Drive, new construction at Old Hampton Highway and Pentingill Rd and new construction across from the Sobey's in Rothesay.

According to the Quispamsis Planning Advisory council minutes, other than the furniture store, the other 'office building' is for Rideau Construction.

And just from word of mouth I have heard that across from Sobeys is going to be a dental office, other retail space, and a stand alone restaurant (subway potentially moving)

[kwajo]

Sod-turning today for new transit building
Buses Facility on east side will cost more than $19 million

BRUCE BARTLETT
TELEGRAPH-JOURNAL
Published Tuesday March 25th, 2008
Appeared on page C4
SAINT JOHN - A groundbreaking ceremony for Saint John Transit's new $19.5-million building will take place today at 2 p.m. at Tiffany Street off Loch Lomond Road.

The 115,000-square-foot facility will have room for 64 buses, up from the 55 spaces at Saint John Transit's current facility on the west side.

In December the federal government announced $8.1 million in funding toward the cost.

Rob Moore, Conservative MP for Fundy Royal, will take part in the groundbreaking ceremony.

The transit commission announced last November that its new facility will be located on the corner of Loch Lomond Road and McDonald Street, near Loch Lomond Mall.

Construction is expected to begin in late spring and will replace the 25-year-old Fairville Boulevard site.

The federal money will come from the Public Transit Capital Fund ,which totals $900 million. It is divvied up across the country based on ridership numbers.

The Saint John Transit Commission says 2.5 million people board its buses each year, making it the most used municipal bus service in the province.

The money is to be used for transit infrastructure and $20.7 million of that fund has been directed toward New Brunswick with Saint John getting almost half.

The transit building will meet LEED standards - Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design. The international designation is the benchmark for high-performance environmental, or green, buildings.

Moving the transit building from Fairville Boulevard opens up the west side area for a planned commercial expansion.

Wal-Mart had been looking at the site, but the company walked away recently because it no longer fit with its corporate strategy.

Plazacorp Property Holdings Inc. is buying the land for $2.5 million and plans to bring a new Sobeys and Canadian Tire to the site.

It's about time Saint John started looking to meet some LEED standards in its new buildings.

[thefishingnut]

Saint John harbour cleanup one step closer
Last Updated: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 | 10:38 AM AT Comments0Recommend0CBC News
The first phase of a multimillion-dollar project to clean up the Saint John harbour is getting underway.

Work crews are preparing to break ground and install a pipe on Red Head Road that will divert tonnes of raw sewage into a treatment facility expected to be built this year.

The long-awaited sewage treatment project will stop the flow of human waste into the harbour.

"It's a massive first step," said local environmentalist Tim Vickers, who has been fighting for this project for years.

"It's been a long time coming. I'm the type of person that talk only goes so far — I prefer action."

Saint John is the only city in Canada with untreated sewage in open creeks in its populated core, according to Atlantic Coastal Action Program Saint John.

Sewage outfalls release 46 per cent of Saint John's waste untreated into local creeks, rivers and the harbour itself.

Vickers said the benefits of the project, which will shut down those outfalls and divert the effluent to treatment plants, will outweigh the inconvenience of its construction.

"It will be very small in comparison to the net gain the city will get in terms of our images, our health, the esthetics people have to live with, the smell and knowing our environment in the harbour and our streams is improved."

The city spent years securing the $88-million needed for the project from all three levels of government.

Saint John Coun. Ivan Court said the investment from all the municipal, provincial and federal levels of government is paying off.

"As growth has taken place in the city, the amount of (waste) material going in has increased to the point that we can't sustain it much longer. So, this is an important step forward for the city," Court said.

Diversion pipes, like the one being put in at Red Head Road, will be needed in every corner of the city.

The project is expected to take at least five years to complete.

This is another project which just can't finish too fast IMO. Anyone know where the new sewage facility is being built?

[kwajo]

The new treatment plant is going in beside the Red Head Marsh, hence why there is a major pipe being installed along Red Head Road.

While I am very much in favour of Harbour Cleanup (I worked for years with Tim Vickers and ACAP on reaching the goal), I must say the article is a bit inaccurate. It says that this is the first phase, but really the ground-work for Harbour Cleanup has been under-construction for years. For example when they revamped Water Street, part of the reason it took so long was because they installed diversion pipes for the sewerage outfalls along that side of the harbour, with the expectation that they would someday get money for the new treatment plant.

Anyway, like you said, this cannot happen fast enough, and will go a long way to improving Saint John's appeal, not only for tourists but also local residents.

[Helladog]

Originally Posted by kwajo

It's about time Saint John started looking to meet some LEED standards in its new buildings.

I believe the new police HQ will as well...

That's a funny article; it makes it look like construction hasn't begun yet. Yesterday, there was plenty of action there with backhoes, dump trucks and workers...

[kwajo]

Originally Posted by Helladog

I believe the new police HQ will as well...

That's a funny article; it makes it look like construction hasn't begun yet. Yesterday, there was plenty of action there with backhoes, dump trucks and workers...

If there is one thing I've learned in my short time on earth, it's that "ground breaking" or "sod-turning" ceremonies are generally meaningless. For example this one at the transit building which was already under construction, or on the opposite end of the spectrum, the new Library Commons at UNBSJ had a sod-turning ceremony, then they scrapped the project entirely.

[michael_d40]

An email i rec'vd today

HARBOUR STATION EVENT INFORMATION
---------

The most influential musician American rock has ever produced will be taking the Harbour Station stage on May 19. The legendary Bob Dylan – singer-songwriter, author, musician, poet, and of late, disc jockey – has earned multiple Grammy, Golden Globe and Academy awards over a career that has spanned almost five decades. He has been inducted into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, Nashville Songwriters Hall of Fame and the Songwriters Hall of Fame. Dylan was included in TIME magazines 100 most influential people of the 20th century and, in 2004, he was ranked #2 in Rolling Stone magazine’s list of “Greatest Artists of All Time”. Tickets for the celebrated Bob Dylan go on sale this Saturday (March 29), beginning at 10 a.m. They are available online at www.harbourstation.nb.ca or at the Harbour Station Box Office.

BOB DYLAN
19 May 2008 , 8:00 PM Doors Open: 7:00 PM

[Helladog]

Originally Posted by kwajo

If there is one thing I've learned in my short time on earth, it's that "ground breaking" or "sod-turning" ceremonies are generally meaningless. For example this one at the transit building which was already under construction, or on the opposite end of the spectrum, the new Library Commons at UNBSJ had a sod-turning ceremony, then they scrapped the project entirely.

...sorta like a grand opening a month after a store has been in operation. For some of the projects currently in the oven (ie: Cruise Ship Welcome Centre) it'd be interesting to see how many times they were announced, reannounced, built and announced again all before the glorious ribbon cutting.

[Helladog]

Transit HQ construction officially launched
Development Bus building expected to be ready for business by May 2009

BRUCE BARTLETT
TELEGRAPH-JOURNAL
Published Wednesday March 26th, 2008
Appeared on page C3



SAINT JOHN - Heavy equipment has been moving earth at the corner of Loch Lomond Road and MacDonald Street for about two weeks to clear the way for the new Saint John Transit Operations Centre.

And on Tuesday a groundbreaking ceremony officially launched construction of the $22-million facility.

Mayor Norm McFarlane, who has been taking a lot of heat over development plans north of Union Street, was eager to get his hands on a shovel.

"It's a great day for Saint John when you can see land being moved and a building started," he said. "It seems to take us a long while to get things going in Saint John."

The mayor thanked the federal government for the $8.1-million contribution toward the $22-million building and help in starting the Comex commuter bus system. The city has 11 new buses and four more on order.

"Saint John is growing," said Mike Hunter, chairman of the Saint John Transit Commission. "This facility will allow Saint John Transit to grow along with it."

The new location for the bus depot is on a slightly elevated piece of land near the Loch Lomond Mall with a commanding view of the city.

"I'm really impressed, standing up here to look at the view," said Rob Moore, MP for Fundy Royal, representing the federal government. "Whoever gets the corner office in this building, I'm sure there is a debate on this now. It's a beautiful view of a beautiful city."

The federal money for public transit is a demonstration of the Conservative government's commitment to improving the environment through providing greener transit options, he said.

Coun. Chris Titus, a former chairman of the transit commission, said the groundbreaking for the new building was a labour of love by many people that took years of effort to bring together.

"Take the bus. It's good for the environment, good for your health and you'll meet lots of interesting people on the bus," he said.

Saint John Transit general manager Frank McCarey said it is hoped the building will be closed in by late October and ready for business by May 2009.

The building will meet LEED standards - Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design - and is expected to last 50 years. The international designation is the benchmark for high-performance environmental, or green, buildings.

"We are going to have close to 60 per cent energy savings, compared to the norm if you didn't do the things we are going to do," said McCarey.

Among other things the building is designed to collect rain from the roof that will be used to wash the buses. Transit officials estimate 85 per cent of the building's water needs will come from rain.

The LEED design is estimated to cost about 10 per cent more than a regular building but that extra upfront cost will be quickly recovered from operating costs, McCarey said.

Cities should take the leadership in promoting best energy use practices in the construction of buildings, he said.

[Seely32]

This building kicks the shit out of the original rendering. It has quite a massive footprint and will be quite intimidating. At least this is being built with relatively few problems.

[kwajo]

Group aims to get in on action
Gambling Exhibition association in talks with one of four finalists to operate first N.B. casino
Dave MacLean
Telegraph-Journal
Published Thursday March 27th, 2008
Appeared on page C1
SAINT JOHN - It appears Saint John still has a one-in-four chance to get in on some of the action that will be associated with the first casino to be licensed in New Brunswick.

Willard Jenkins, president of the Exhibition Association of the City and County of Saint John, confirmed Wednesday that his group has been in discussions with one of the four finalists in the race to operate the first casino in the province.

"We have had discussions with one of the proponents, who indicated they would like to sit down with us and see if we can work something out," said Jenkins, whose group oversees the harness racing meet at Exhibition Park Raceway. "This is all contingent upon this group being selected and the approval of the government."

Jenkins made the comments following the exhibition association's annual meeting, held Wednesday afternoon in the main building at the exhibition grounds on McAllister Drive. A discussion on the future of harness racing at EPR was one of the items on the agenda, but Jenkins said it was still too early to make any final decisions.

"There's been so much go on in the past year that I just thought it was time to update the membership," he said. "We were just saying, 'Here's where we are and we think we'll bring this to a conclusion this year, one way or another.' We just can't go on as it is now."

Jenkins said the membership generally felt the board should wait until it has a final recommendation and then call for a special meeting to determine the future of racing. He said his group is interested in allowing a partner to come in and operate the racing side of the operation, while the exhibition association would continue to oversee the annual Atlantic National Exhibition and the various land leases on property it owns.

The provincial government announced earlier this month it had received bids from four groups interested in developing the province's first casino.

Last fall, the exhibition association held a press conference to announce it was joining forces with a Quebec-based company - Attractions Hippiques - to develop a so-called "destination gaming" centre at the site of the racetrack on McAllister Drive.

The proposal called for the Quebec firm to build and operate a racino with a new grandstand and a number of slot machines on a gaming floor, similar to the Charlottetown Driving Park and Entertainment Centre operated by the Atlantic Lottery Corporation. The exhibition association was planning on enhancing the proposed $20-million project by building a hockey rink, soccer fields and sports dome.

But that was before the government announced its request for proposals that will see a lone casino licence issued in New Brunswick. Attractions Hippiques paid a non-refundable $5,000 fee to become a registered bidder, but withdrew from the project early in the new year.

Jenkins said his group then began negotiations with two other developers, but one of them - Great Canadian Gaming - didn't submit a proposal. He said the board would continue discussions with the unnamed bidder and the preference is to enter into an agreement similar to the one it had proposed with the Quebec group. The exhibition association would act only as a landlord in the project, leasing the land to a track operator.

The four projects identified by the government as finalists for the casino are all believed to be centred around Greater Moncton, including at least one in the downtown and another in Dieppe.

Oh great, the racino idea still isn't dead

[Helladog]

Oh great, the racino idea still isn't dead

Maybe it's for Moncton.

[mylesmalley]

Originally Posted by Helladog

Maybe it's for Moncton.

I think Moncton is even /less/ keen to see a racino.

Notice how the only people who genuinely want one are the people involved in the industry...

[thefishingnut]

Originally Posted by kwajo

Oh great, the racino idea still isn't dead

If this un-named company does get awarded the license to build a casino in Moncton, and then subsequently goes back to the government and asks to be relicensed to build a Racino in Saint John, they'll be laughed out the door.

Maybe the company they're talking to has a 1 in 4 chance of winning the license, but there must be about a 1 in 1,000 chance they'd then attempt to turn around and do a Racino.

Sounds to me like someone in the un-named company said "sure, we can talk later and see if something can be worked out" to get these guys out of their office so they could get back to work.

[random11]

SAINT JOHN - City manager Terry Totten is recommending that the north of Union development be changed substantially, reflecting many of the wishes of citizens who complained about the city's conceptual plan.

Totten suggests changing the location of the police station and the parking garage, saving some of the heritage buildings at the site, and focusing more on biking and public transit.

"I think it is complete," Totten said of his report. "I think it touches on all the issues. It may reduce the size of the development site, but it's still enough to move forward."

The 25-page report about the development - a provincial justice building, police station, parking garage and public green space - will be presented to common council at a public meeting in City Hall at 5 p.m.

The development - pegged at $80 million in Totten's report - has been hotly debated around the council chambers and in the public, with concerns raised in various quarters about cost (the report says a three-cent tax increase is possible), heritage, the fate of the Saint John Arts Centre, the necessity of the police station in the development, and the city's commitment to public consultations.

Proponents, including Mayor Norm McFarlane, have said the development will provide a much-needed police station, rejuvenate the uptown, and lead to residential and commercial spinoffs and an increased tax base.

Totten's report says the police station should be relocated from an area east of the Carnegie building to an area to its south, generally bounded by Hazen, Chipman, Peel, and Union streets. Totten writes that it will allow for "possible future expansion of the Arts Centre or some other possible development."

He also recommends the parking garage be moved from its planned location on Union Street to the Sewell Street escarpment - the site that was originally proposed when the development first got underway.

The city manager also says the "street fronts" on Wellington Row should be preserved, as well as the entirety of the CFBC building and the Shaarei Zedek Synagogue. The buildings along Union Street, including the Broderick building, the lone building on Peel Street, and the small building behind the Arts Centre would presumably be removed.

The city should, Totten writes, "increase emphasis on public transit, bike paths, and pedestrian ways;" include "significant public spaces around the individual structures including the potential for an Art Park;" and limit the width of Union Street, which had been slated for future expansion.

Totten's recommendations are based on input from 80 to 100 individual citizens who turned out at each of four public consultation meetings, as well as stakeholder meetings with 11 stakeholder groups, including Uptown Saint John, Vito's Restaurant, the Human Development Council, and the Saint John Board of Trade.

Public consultations will continue at various times throughout the process, if council accepts Totten's report. The public will have its say on the final designs of each of the police headquarters, the parking garage, and the public space; on private development proposals; on any public art; and on the continued development of the city's urban design guidelines.

Totten also has recommendations on how council should proceed. They include:

*"‚Ask the police commission's architects to revisit the headquarters design to fit the new location.

*"‚Notify the owners of City Hall that the police force will extend its stay in the building to April 30, 2011.

*"‚Call for developers' expressions of interest, followed by the creation of a short list, then a call for proposals.

*"‚Come to an agreement with the province to share costs of holding cells, a tunnel between the two buildings, the public plaza and the parking garage.

The police station is slated to be completed by September 2010.

[random11]

Dave MacLean
Telegraph-Journal
Published Friday March 28th, 2008
Appeared on page C1
SAINT JOHN - The contentious debate over the north of Union project is over.

Common council voted unanimously Thursday night to endorse a series of recommendations by city manager Terry Totten that will allow the proposed development to move ahead.

The provincial government intends to build a $47-million justice complex on the site of the former YMCA-YWCA building on Hazen Avenue and the city is proposing to build a new police headquarters at a projected cost of $22 million and a parking garage that will cost in the $15- to $18-million range.

The project had been the subject of plenty of negative energy in recent weeks and months - including more than one shouting match around the council horseshoe - as groups of concerned citizens voiced their frustration over what they perceived as a lack of public consultation.

A number of consultation sessions were held in the past couple of months and Totten's report to council Thursday reflected many of the concerns raised in those sessions.

Totten's recommendations included moving the police station to an empty lot on Hazen Avenue across from Vito's restaurant and relocating the parking garage to an area between Sewell and Carleton streets. Those suggestions mirror some of the major concerns expressed by citizens who attended the public sessions.

The fact that many of the concerns were addressed in the city manager's report led to an atmosphere of congeniality and positive emotions in the chamber.

"It's been a long process, and we're extremely pleased tonight that council has seen fit to accept the recommendation to move forward with a new facility," said police commission chairman Andrew Britton.

"There's been a lot of talk about where it should be and what it should look like and those are important issues. But what I'm most excited about is that we're moving forward with a police facility that is going to allow our force to continue to be effective, which is an expectation of the citizens.

"We're going to continue to work very closely with the public because at the end of the day, this facility has to be something that not only the police officers are proud of, but every citizen of Saint John is proud of."

Coun. Glen Tait said he was pleased the issue was handled by the current council and not delayed for the next council to deal with after the May 12 municipal election.

"This council's number two priority, after harbour cleanup, was a new police facility," said Tait. "It would be unfair for us to hand it over to another council for them to look at for another four years."

"To me, this is a win for the community and I guess consultation works," said Coun. Chris Titus. In terms of the report's meeting the expectations of the public, he added "this seems to do it all quite frankly. I see it as a win-win. I couldn't be more happy."

Coun. Carl White, who is serving his third term, said the issue had been before council far too long.

"This was facing council when I first came on," he said. "Police are not in an appropriate setting (in their current location inside City Hall) and it's time to get on with it - it's long overdue. I think our police personnel deserve the kind of facility that is conducive to the work they do."

Councillors John Ferguson, Stephen Chase and Bill Farren voiced concerns about the cost of the facility and noted there is no appetite among taxpayers for a project that would increase the property tax rate.

"We need to be prudent and responsible," said Chase. "The taxpayer eventually pays and what I hear in the community is that people don't want to pay any more taxes."

Tait said it was his understanding the city can afford to move ahead with the project and he added all members of council should take a lesson from the consultation process.

"Not too many years ago, the estimated cost (of the police station) was $9 million. When we were elected, we were told it was $15 million. Everyone agrees there's a need. Sometime we're going to have to bite the bullet and now's the time.

"It would be irresponsible to go ahead if we didn't think we can afford these projects. The financial capacity is there to do this and I believe we've been prudent and it's time to move ahead," Tait said.

"I also want to recognize the need for public consultation. The more you get, the better project you'll get. It's been a good learning experience and I'm sure we'll do a much better job in the future. And public consultation will continue to be a big part of this project."

[Alberta Bound]

Compromise clears way for housing project
Rocca gets OK for $25-million uptown development

SAINT JOHN - John Rocca has finally received the go-ahead to proceed with a $25-million housing development in the city's uptown.

Common council last week approved a rezoning request that will allow for Rocca's Ellerdale Investments to go forward with a condominium project that will be located on the site of the former grain elevator located between Prince William and Water streets at the foot of Queen Street.

The project met with some unexpected opposition at a council meeting in January. Uptown Saint John and the Saint John Waterfront Development Partnership both appeared at a public hearing to oppose Rocca's project because the development would block the view of Saint John Harbour from traffic coming down Queen Street.

Both groups stressed they are generally supportive of major development in the uptown, but they felt compelled to oppose the rezoning because of the potential loss of the sight line.

The groups urged Rocca to consider a compromise and one was eventually reached.

The end result, says the prominent developer, is that the project will proceed in separate phases with structures of different sizes. It's a compromise that left everyone satisfied.

"The southern building, next to the Three Sisters plaza, will remain four floors off Prince William," Rocca explained.

"The northern tower, the one closest to Saint John High School, will now be six floors instead of four. Essentially, what we did is take a piece out of the middle of both buildings and move the whole project farther south and took the space we removed from the middle and added it to the top of the north tower. That's how we addressed the issue."

Rocca, who paid the city $450,000 for the land, said while the changes in design will mean additional construction costs, he hopes to keep the units in an affordable price range for his target market.

"We have two significant advantages that others would not have," he said. "First, the land was owned by the city and the city's interest was not to get the highest price. It was to get fair market value with the right project. The price was at the low end of the market value. Second, the site is clear. When you're assembling land for development, in many cases you're paying a lot of money because there are existing buildings and you have to pay to tear them down.

"We don't have those additional costs, so we don't have to pass extra costs on to the consumer. We're passing the savings on to the buyers."

He said he hopes to offer many of the units at "entry level" prices.

"This project is significantly different than anything that has ever been done in Saint John in that it is aimed at the entry level market," said Rocca. "Forty per cent of the units will be priced below $200,000. That's the group that has been fuelling the condo market in North America - the younger generation.

"These are generally university graduates working uptown who want to live uptown and can't afford many of the pricier options. They are working professionals aged 25 to 35 who are looking to own a home."

Coun. Stephen Chase said the Rocca development is great news for the uptown.

"It was a really good project all along, it's just that there was one issue that didn't fall in line with some previous planning work that we had done through public consultation - the Queen Street view plane," said Chase.

"The project is viewed as really great for the uptown and much-needed.

"This is a really good story and I think this project could turn out to be the flagship development for the Rocca brothers. This is a really great project. It just goes to show that when there's consultation you can really make things work and people come away happy."

Rocca agreed the project could be significant for his firm and for the city.

"We look at this project as being as significant for the uptown as Market Square was in its day," he said. "If you're going to have the kind of growth that we all expect will happen, where are we going to put everyone?

"It's important that we have adequate housing available. One of the most important functions this project will serve is that it will prove there is a demand for condos and this will lead to further development through renovations of the upper floors.

"If our project helps create a demand, then other developers will try to help meet the demand that has been established by people coming from other jurisdictions who are used to living in downtown condos."

[Alberta Bound]

Great news that both these projects are moving forward. I was starting to have my doubts that North of Union would proceed.