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  #161  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2008, 8:08 PM
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It's not an HRM by Design rendering, it was produced as part of a series of conceptual designs for a city-wide planning exercise, which I agree seems to be mostly worthless as it has gone on for about 5 years (i.e. 20% of the intended period to be covered by the plan) without producing noticeable results.

And yes, those parks by the intersection are totally pointless. I think the point was more for the rendering to look nice than for it to actually be practical. This looks more like some kind of high-end planned community in Florida than something suitable for a poorer part of Dartmouth.
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  #162  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2008, 8:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Keith P. View Post
That is the very definition of dreaming in technicolor... about the only things that remain of what is there now are the Holiday inn and Metropolitian Place. The Esso station is gone, the Dartmouth Shopping Center is gone, etc etc. The amount of park space is absurd given that there is already lots of parkland right there east and south of the Sportsplex. Plus the intersection coming off the MacDonald, a huge bottleneck at peak times, is left unfixed or maybe made worse.

Sorry, this is a non-starter. It seems a clasic case of a planner blue-skying without any consideration or context to the realities of the area.
I'd have to agree with everything you've mentioned.
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  #163  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2008, 9:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Haliguy View Post
Exactly, its a conceptual drawing. The way you guys are talking its like its going to council for approval or something.
What I'm saying is that it is a very poorly thought-out concept if there is no consideration given to reality.
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  #164  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2008, 12:05 PM
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Office, residential space planned for Herald lands

Office, residential space planned for Herald lands

By BILL POWER Staff Reporter
Thu. Mar 27 - 5:33 AM



City officials are discussing possible sites for a new trade and convention centre in downtown Halifax. (Peter Parsons / Staff)





At least one prime potential site for a new convention centre in downtown Halifax is about to be redeveloped into office, retail and living space.

The group that owns The Chronicle Herald site, one of the larger and more obvious locations for such an ambitious project in the central business district, expects to file an application for a development agreement for a major project on the two-acre property within weeks, spokesman Joe Ramia said Wednesday.

"We are proceeding with our plans for the property and this involves the application for a development agreement, since we are looking at something in excess of 40 feet," said Mr. Ramia, a principal with Argyle Developments Inc.

He said the necessary paperwork should be filed at city hall in about two weeks.

"I cannot divulge specifics other than to say we are planning a significant mixed commercial and residential development for this site," he said.

The Chronicle Herald site figured prominently in talks Tuesday on a possible new trade and convention centre for the heart of Halifax.

Mr. Ramia said he will investigate fully the proposal for a new convention centre, but said it is premature to speculate on any potential involvement in such a project by his group.

A new convention centre suggested by both Premier Rodney MacDonald and Mayor Peter Kelly would be about 150,000 square feet, or about three times larger than the existing convention, centre built in 1984.

The Herald property, a waterfront site and a possible redevelopment of the Cogswell interchange were on the list of possible convention centre locations that emerged Tuesday.

Scott Ferguson, executive vice-president for Trade Centre Ltd., said Wednesday that significant activity in the industry in major Canadian centres like Vancouver and Ottawa has raised the bar for the future of the entire convention industry.

"Ottawa has just announced a new 200,000-square-foot convention centre to open in about two years, while Vancouver is in the midst of a 400,000-square-foot redevelopment of its convention space. Toronto has three big centres, each approaching about a million square feet," he said.

He said it is difficult to bid on conventions of more than 1,000 participants for the 50,000-square-foot convention centre in Halifax that is connected to the Metro Centre.

Many people in the Halifax development community will closely watch what unfolds with the convention centre in the coming weeks, even if they don’t build the complex, said Ralph Medjuck, chairman and CEO of Centennial Group Properties.

"Convention centres are rarely profitable in and of themselves, so there will be many questions to be asked about the level of government involvement and also about the location and magnitude of this project," he said.

Bob Mussett, senior vice-president and senior managing director of CB Richard Ellis Ltd., a commercial real estate broker, said restraint should be the operative word when it comes to talk about replacing the existing centre.

"I think an annex that would allow the existing operation to attract bigger conventions makes sense, rather than building something entirely new," he said.

The province owns the World Trade and Convention Centre and operates it through Trade Centre Ltd. Halifax Regional Municipality makes annual contributions toward operating costs.

( [email protected])
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  #165  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2008, 1:58 PM
terrynorthend terrynorthend is offline
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I'm concerned that I've heard a number of proposals (many moving through the approval process, but many already approved) but I have seen little actual progress. Here is yet another large mixed-use proposal coming forth, yet we are still waiting for Centennial to start, UG to start, and even the triangle lands which has had development approval since the late 80's early 90's. Add to this many large proposals awaiting approval. Its getting to the point that I'm a little blase when I hear talk of still another development, or a new signature bridge or a new convention centre or a stadium or a new arena or a new museum complex or library or waterfront redevelopment. I'm beginning to think I'll never see anything new in my lifetime. And I'm not even 40 yet!! Its one thing that we have an onerous approval process. Unfortunately, it seems the developers are also as slow as a molasses factory in Nunavut.

Halifax is becoming the best "virtual" city in Canada..
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  #166  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2008, 2:27 PM
phrenic phrenic is offline
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Originally Posted by terrynorthend View Post
Halifax is becoming the best "virtual" city in Canada..
I agree. If reality were as cheap as the talk around here, this would be one happening city. It's not.
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  #167  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2008, 3:35 PM
worldlyhaligonian worldlyhaligonian is offline
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Talk is cheap... its seems as though some individuals are living in the world of fantasy.

Cogswell is obviously not appropriate for this project...
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  #168  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2008, 3:41 PM
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Originally Posted by terrynorthend View Post
I'm concerned that I've heard a number of proposals (many moving through the approval process, but many already approved) but I have seen little actual progress. Here is yet another large mixed-use proposal coming forth, yet we are still waiting for Centennial to start, UG to start, and even the triangle lands which has had development approval since the late 80's early 90's. Add to this many large proposals awaiting approval. Its getting to the point that I'm a little blase when I hear talk of still another development, or a new signature bridge or a new convention centre or a stadium or a new arena or a new museum complex or library or waterfront redevelopment. I'm beginning to think I'll never see anything new in my lifetime. And I'm not even 40 yet!! Its one thing that we have an onerous approval process. Unfortunately, it seems the developers are also as slow as a molasses factory in Nunavut.

Halifax is becoming the best "virtual" city in Canada..

Not all the developers are in fault in starting of the projects. Remember they are investors for the most part. They aren’t going to invest if it doesn't provide a return.

That being said, take a look at UG proposal, if it had of proceeded at the beginning without the appeal it might have been under construction by now. But the appeal and other restraints have ruined this project ability to be economically feasible.

Look at centennial group’s proposal. It too took to long to get through. Its now may come down to becoming uneconomical for it to proceed.

Look at Queens Landing, a private and public funded project that would change the waterfront. Now in jeopardy due to public process and marketability of the project may have passed.

The process and studies are endless. The developer's are being placed through too many hoops, which stall developments.

There were times when development agreements took less then 3 months to build something. Now its more like 3 years.
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  #169  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2008, 3:43 PM
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Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian View Post
Talk is cheap... its seems as though some individuals are living in the world of fantasy.

Cogswell is obviously not appropriate for this project...
My theory, they will expand the current trade centre into the Metro Centre, then buildig a new stadium. I bet a few dollars this is really what is to become of all this news. Therefore they will suggest the cogswell for the stadium again.....
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  #170  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2008, 4:05 PM
terrynorthend terrynorthend is offline
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Originally Posted by sdm View Post

That being said, take a look at UG proposal, if it had of proceeded at the beginning without the appeal it might have been under construction by now. But the appeal and other restraints have ruined this project ability to be economically feasible.
I agree and am not trying to find fault with particular developers, investors (who are just looking for a return) or officials who are bound by the process as it stands. It is the entire system that is problematic.

As for UG.. are you suggesting that the additional cost of the appeals and studies made it economically unfeasible, or the change in business climate? Perhaps it is a blessing that they didn't get earlier approval. What a mess it would be if they got halfway through construction and hit an economic slump. Look at St. James Place, or the hotel that was partially built at the Airport a few years ago. Even UG themselves created a mess with the Motherhouse at MSVU last year..now it is slated for demolition. Would we really want this to happen in the middle of downtown? Giving that kind of ammunition to the Heritage groups would be like handing out guns at a prison picnic.
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  #171  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2008, 4:20 PM
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Originally Posted by sdm View Post
My theory, they will expand the current trade centre into the Metro Centre, then buildig a new stadium. I bet a few dollars this is really what is to become of all this news. Therefore they will suggest the cogswell for the stadium again.....
I think that's probably the best idea! It would be nice to see something happen on the Herald site. It's a dead building along an otherwise very lively street. There is also that block behind it. To my mind, the Herald and the parking lot behind it are holes right in the centre of downtown and it would be wonderful to fill them in.
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  #172  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2008, 4:44 PM
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Yes, I blame the approval process and heavy-handed government involvement for most of this. Even St. James Place was delayed for many years. Developers in the core have to try and hit a moving target with no idea of how long it will be before they can actually sell units and build. Meanwhile, suburban developments go up very quickly.

Even the small Armour Group office proposal downtown will take minimum 1 year to approve. In the meantime, many suburban office buildings will be built, possibly absorbing demand for office space in the city.

I hope the Herald lands proposal is relatively conservative and can simply be approved and built ASAP (unfortunately there's that absurd 40 foot "height limit"). All that site needs is a bit of 6-8 storey residential and office space with retail at ground level. If there is a tower component we'll simply see another Midtown that will end up in limbo.
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  #173  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2008, 10:47 PM
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- Build a new convention centre at the Herald site
- build supporting offices retail etc, on the midtown site
- link the new convention centre underground to the offices retail
- link the offices/retail underground to the Prince George which is linked to the existing trade centre.
- close grafton st. between carmichael and sackville and have it a pedestrian mall..cafes..bars etc.
- leave the metro centre as is to be part of the convention facility
- build a new 17,000 seat arena in combination with a hotel at the water st. power station site
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  #174  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2008, 4:24 PM
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It will not be a large scale project by any means, but Clean Nova Scotia is planning a major expansion to its Portland St. Dartmouth Office in the Fall.

I'm mentioning this because it will be a unique project, likely including the installation of a large "green roof" and other environmental features.
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  #175  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2008, 11:58 PM
terrynorthend terrynorthend is offline
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Sounds cool. I wonder if this is a Heather Foley-Melvin initiative..lol
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  #176  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2008, 12:08 AM
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You may be thinking of Conserve Nova Scotia.

Last edited by phrenic; Apr 11, 2008 at 12:25 AM.
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  #177  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2008, 12:37 AM
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Originally Posted by sdm View Post
My theory, they will expand the current trade centre into the Metro Centre, then buildig a new stadium. I bet a few dollars this is really what is to become of all this news. Therefore they will suggest the cogswell for the stadium again.....
I predict that if a stadium was ever slated for the Cogwell lands... there would be a LOT of people chaining themselves to bulldozers... lol. No... seriously. What an utter disaster that would be... replacing one monolith with another.
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  #178  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2008, 12:09 PM
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Developers are now flocking to this area. We are working with one to develop the vacant lot by the liquor store. This will become the place to be in Dartmouth!
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  #179  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2008, 4:11 PM
terrynorthend terrynorthend is offline
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You may be thinking of Conserve Nova Scotia.
Whoops..thats the one..Lol!!
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  #180  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2008, 5:07 PM
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Lol, no problem, thats an incredibly common mistake. Even Tim Bosquet mixed up the names in The Coast yesterday.
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