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  #6321  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2008, 7:48 PM
honte honte is offline
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Originally Posted by Alliance View Post
Park View West is...haermmm.

That precast brick stuff is distracting
I don't know what "haermmm" means, but I love that material. Without it, this would be just another glassy highrise with little distinction aside from some color.

Anyway, it's not precast and it doesn't look anything like brick in real life.

______

Concerning BP, I am going to bet that they go for the trophy tower as a way to help propagandize their greenness. That would be ideal, because aside from the new building, I would really love to see the Krueck + Sexton remake of the former CBOT building (which has never gotten any love from me). I think they could make that building into something nice, where right now we have quite a dud. This likely won't happen if BP comes in and uses the trading floor for its original purpose.
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  #6322  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2008, 9:54 PM
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Fairbanks at Cityfront Plaza, 12 March:

     
     
  #6323  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2008, 9:56 PM
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757 Orleans, 12 March. Looking pretty darn good so far:



Glass going in:



     
     
  #6324  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2008, 5:46 AM
emathias emathias is offline
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Originally Posted by wrabbit View Post
757 Orleans, 12 March. Looking pretty darn good so far:
...
How do you figure that? I live 2 blocks from there and really wish they'd chosen to be a little more adventurous with that location. It's the middle of the River North Gallery District for crying out loud - couldn't the city have strongly encouraged something with some actual architectural interest going on? At the very least, given its significant location in an area with a lot of street traffic, I'd have liked to see better use of the second floor instead of just the very tiresome parking use. It's a gallery district, there's demand for second and third floor commercial space, unlike some areas.

The company obviously doesn't give a rat's ass about the neighborhood, either. Check out their area map and it's absurd. It has streets that simply don't exist on it. It doesn't correctly define the gallery district it's in, misdefining it so badly that it places itself outside what should be a key selling point. It reduces the Magnificent Mile to the Magnificent Quarter-Mile. It lists the White Hen on Ontario under "grocery stores," as well as some deli way over by the lakefront but somehow fails to mention the Jewel at State/Grant, the Jewel at Division, the Dominicks at Division and the Bockwinkles on Kingsbury at Chicago - and it lists the Hancock Grocery, which I believe is restricted to only Hancock residents! I could go on, but the list of their stupid misrepresentation of the area would fill pages.

I find the entire project very disappointing - the only possible good thing to come of it is the added density that will help support area services.
     
     
  #6325  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2008, 6:25 AM
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^ emathias, that was hilarious. I agree with you - aside from the Brininstool + Lynch proposal that was not executed, I am waiting for a design that really tries to capture, reinforce, and expand the nature of the gallery district. Most things seem to be unaware of their special location, or worse, contradictory to it. The very nice Miller / Hull building gets close, but it doesn't have the retail / mixed use aspect.

Still, before you get too upset about this design, don't forget to take a look at the developer's other work. Oh, and don't forget to make sure you're seated before you do that.
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  #6326  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2008, 1:06 PM
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Quick photo update on Roosevelt Collection from a unique perspective.

From 2-27-08


From 3-5-08


From 3-12-08
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  #6327  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2008, 3:03 PM
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Wow that's really coming along. Is there going to be a pedestrian bridge over the tracks between Roosevelt and Polk?
     
     
  #6328  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2008, 3:19 PM
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No, I'm pretty sure the intent is to get you to walk through plaza level with all the retail shops and theatre. There will be a "grand" staircase at the North end that will tie Roosevelt to 9th St, but the project does not go as far as Polk.
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  #6329  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2008, 3:25 PM
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Great update, kayos. I haven't seen the site since back in August.
     
     
  #6330  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2008, 5:08 PM
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How many units at RC are currently under construction? Is it basically everything but the high-rise, at this point? Does the project eventually extend all the way to the river, or is that surface lot marked for something else? I know eventually CDOT intends to punch Wells street all the way through.
     
     
  #6331  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2008, 5:16 PM
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I posted a few shots of this site back in December looking towards the NE.
Wow has it come a long way filling in the not so nice areas.

TT
     
     
  #6332  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2008, 5:31 PM
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315, which does not include anything in the highrise. The area West of the project belongs to a different developer. We are only using the space for storage.
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  #6333  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2008, 7:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by honte View Post
I don't know what "haermmm" means, but I love that material. Without it, this would be just another glassy highrise with little distinction aside from some color.

Anyway, it's not precast and it doesn't look anything like brick in real life.
West has a LOT of color, its proably the secondmost colorful building in Chicago behind CNA. I just think the added elements are too distracting and don't integrate well around the corners.
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  #6334  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2008, 9:09 PM
emathias emathias is offline
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Originally Posted by honte View Post
... The very nice Miller / Hull building gets close, but it doesn't have the retail / mixed use aspect.
Yes, I do (mostly) like 156 W Superior - I'm on Huron, and I look right across the HoJo at that building from my back deck. Wish they could have made it a little more interesting at street level, but overall I like it.

And, really, I am more annoyed with the Flair Tower design than I am with the 757 design if for no other reason than you'd think Flair would "get it" given their long presence in the area. It's disheartening that they don't.

There was a cool proposal for the north side of Huron between Franklin and Orleans a few years ago. It was good-sized and nicely modern and would have combined commercial, retail and residential space into the development. I was disappointed when the architect told me it fell through.

That lot, plus the one on the south side of that block of Huron, plus the lot behind the Miller/Hull building could all house some really positive things if developers with vision and/or the city pushes for it. Only after those are filled in can we start encouraging Moody to figure out how to use its land in a way that benefits both the school and the neighborhood instead of causing a tear in the fabric of time and space (or at least neighborhood continuity). :-)
     
     
  #6335  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2008, 10:06 PM
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When are the high rise buildings going to be constructed for the Roosevelt Collection?
     
     
  #6336  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2008, 12:56 AM
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You are definitely right, for the most part, but I think that we will see our fair share of construction cranes for at least a few more years or so. While we won't see nearly as many condo towers going up, there will still be some that will probably break ground in the next year or two, as many developments that haven't started construction yet sold a decent amount of units before the market went downhill (eg - MO, X/O, Walton on the Park, Lincoln Park 2520, New City, 1349 South Wabash, etc.). Also, new condo developments in great areas like LSE and Central Station will still be successful. As you mentioned, the hotel sector will spearhead some new highrise construction....the commercial sector will contribute a few more high rises as well. The rental apartment should also contribute at least a few more high rises to the mix....and there should even be a couple decent sized hospital and student dorm buildings too. And don't forget, the Chicago Spire construction will be going on for a few more years!
In response to the bolded sections... it is becoming evident as buildings become complete and start closings that often 30-50% of units in these new buildings are sold to investors (read www.cribchatter.com). With the market where its at, how many investors do you think will end up walking away from their deposits and not closing on units in the new buildings, especially if they're strained by taking a loss on previous units they've bought in other buildings? Given this risk, financing for construction is getting tighter by the minute. And the rental market will shortly (within a year) be just as overbuilt and flooded as the condo market. Remember, unlike 2005 and 2006, there is now downward pressure on downtown rental rates because the supply is increasing so quickly as investors become accidental landlords and put their new condo on the rental market (at a monthly operating loss, of course). I'd be surprised if at least a couple of those you mentioned don't get canceled. I 'm not as optimistic as you are about new towers coming anytime soon in LSE or Central Station, those areas are both already flooded with luxury inventory for sale between developers' original units and distressed flippers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alliance View Post
Waldorf? Arqui? 200 N Riverside? Waldorf Rental? X/O?

The Boom wasn't so big in 2002 or 2003. Why is it suddenly over? Perhaps we're just returning to a sane development rate?
I'd be surprised if Waldorf and Arqui get built in this boom cycle, seeing as there is already so much competitive inventory available in those submarkets that the developer won't be able to sell units at a high enough price to pay for construction and profit margin (if we're real lucky, Waldorf plows in enough cash to get it moving). Remember, condo prices are dropping quickly while construction costs continue to go up. 200 N. Riverside is a go because of it's anchor tenant. I hope XO gets built but I'm still not confident (perhaps one will get built but maybe not both).

Wish I could be as optimistic as you guys, but I think the best we can hope for is continued strength in the hotel market (iffy proposition if the US economy indeed enters recession) and institutional college/hospital buildings (which seem immune to the market and are both awash in record levels of cash). Residential and Office? I think most people aren't yet aware of just how bad it's gonna get. The office market will be majorly overbuilt by 2010 (millions of sq ft coming online between 353 Clark, 300 LaSalle, 151 Wacker, 200N Riverside) despite barely any increase in demand. And the older buildings set to lose out won't be in a position to convert to residential because it looks like by the time the dust settles from all the construction there will be a few years worth of inventory available in the DT market.
     
     
  #6337  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2008, 1:01 AM
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Originally Posted by honte View Post
Concerning BP, I am going to bet that they go for the trophy tower as a way to help propagandize their greenness. That would be ideal, because aside from the new building, I would really love to see the Krueck + Sexton remake of the former CBOT building (which has never gotten any love from me). I think they could make that building into something nice, where right now we have quite a dud. This likely won't happen if BP comes in and uses the trading floor for its original purpose.
Wouldn't the greenest thing to do be to re-use an existing tower?

I know, I know, it's about image, but building a new tower is the development equivalent of buying a new Prius instead of a used Honda Civic or VW TDI.
     
     
  #6338  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2008, 1:30 AM
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Wouldn't the greenest thing to do be to re-use an existing tower?
Depends. Generally speaking, I agree with you - but especially when you are weighing teardown and rebuild vs. rehab. In this case, however, since there would be no teardown, the answer might be no. Depending on their level of commitment to technologies that have a very long financial pay-off (but perhaps a quicker return in environmental terms), it may indeed be greener to build something from scratch.

This is of course taking the view that that space in the CBOT building will be needed and consumed by someone else in the not-too-distant future and not just sitting there consuming resources; in other words, barring the idea of needless consumption.
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  #6339  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2008, 1:47 AM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
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Originally Posted by VivaLFuego View Post
I think most people aren't yet aware of just how bad it's gonna get. The office market will be majorly overbuilt by 2010 (millions of sq ft coming online between 353 Clark, 300 LaSalle, 151 Wacker, 200N Riverside) despite barely any increase in demand.
^ Sure about that?

March 03, 2008

Only modest rise forecast in downtown office vacancy
By Thomas A. Corfman

(Crain’s — The downtown vacancy rate is predicted to rise only moderately by 2010, despite the expected construction of more than 5.6 million square feet of downtown office space, according to a new report by Jones Lang LaSalle Inc.

The vacancy rate, including sublease space, will rise to 14.3% by 2010, compared to 11.4% during the fourth quarter of 2007, which was the lowest level since 2000, the Chicago-based commercial real estate firm says.
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  #6340  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2008, 4:39 AM
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Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
^ Sure about that?

March 03, 2008

Only modest rise forecast in downtown office vacancy
By Thomas A. Corfman

(Crain’s — The downtown vacancy rate is predicted to rise only moderately by 2010, despite the expected construction of more than 5.6 million square feet of downtown office space, according to a new report by Jones Lang LaSalle Inc.

The vacancy rate, including sublease space, will rise to 14.3% by 2010, compared to 11.4% during the fourth quarter of 2007, which was the lowest level since 2000, the Chicago-based commercial real estate firm says.
Crains
Well Jones Lang LaSalle is a real estate broker and it is in their interest to paint as bright of a picture as possible to prevent as much as they can the doom and gloom from spreading. If they don't find tenants and make real estate transactions they don't get paid. Thus like any good salesman they need to talk things up.

No one knows what is going to happen in the real estate market in the near term. The last 3-4 years have generally been years of excess and irrational exuberance in both the commercial and residential real estate markets; making it hard to value real estate assets accurately and objectively. In addition there has been a disconnect b/t underlying asset prices and cash flow they can generate. The GM skyscraper in NYC is an example of that. It was sold by GM for about $500 million in early 90s, then bought by Trump and Conseco for $800 mil in 1998. Trump and his buddy Hilbert sold it in '03 for $1.4 billion. Now it is up for sale for over $3 billion. Has anything changed to increase its value so much b/t 2003 and now. It is still the same pile of steel and glass, with the same tenants paying the same rent. It is more about perception and confidence about long term prospects of this asset. In a recent WSJ article one can find such a comment:

WSJ- "For most buyers of the GM Building, the dream has been to hold it long enough to turn over the many floors being occupied by long-term tenants paying below-market rents. (The asking rate is now at more than $200 per square foot.) That's the plan Mr. Cayre has in mind. "It's going to be a long while before any investor in this building will see any cash flow of consequence," he says. "It's something you buy if you believe in the world, and you believe in the U.S. and New York." But, like Mr. Macklowe, many owners were forced to put it up for sale before they were ready."

So bottom line is we need to look at both the long term and short term. Long term this most recent boom will be nothing more than another episode in the real estate drama that has been playing since people invented the concept of private property. Think back to the early 1990s when it seemed the sky was falling and office buildings were in abundant oversupply. We got over it and same is going to happen with today’s boom, even if there is some pain in the short term. And in the near term there can indeed be some trouble:

WSJ- "Goldman analysts predicts the financial damage from commercial real estate could last as long as two years, which would mean "a significantly longer tail than subprime." That is because only 28% of commercial-real-estate loans have been packaged into securities since 1995, while about 80% of subprime loans have been securitized; the higher level of securitization subjects the subprime assets to more-immediate mark-to-market accounting, which is playing out in the form of the write-downs that are dominating headlines"

At the same the same time:
WSJ-"If there is a silver lining, it is that the excesses that overtook the U.S. housing market aren't as prevalent in commercial real estate. Overbuilding of shopping malls, office parks and other commercial property hasn't been rampant, although vacancy rates are climbing in such markets as Orange County, Calif., and Las Vegas, which have been hit by the weak housing market.Market values of commercial-mortgage-backed securities, which are pools of mortgages that are sliced up and sold to investors as bonds, are down about 5% since late last year, compared with declines of roughly 50% or more last year for some collateralized debt obligations. "




To sum up, even people who have been in the industry for a long time are none the wiser how it all will play out. If the economy goes into a tailspin and nosedives we will see massive problems in both the residential and commercial real estate. If the downturn isn't very severe we will still see lots of trouble with residential real estate but much less for commercial. We just have to wait and see.


Articles:
Malls, Offices May Slump
Less Steeply Than Homes
By PETER GRANT
March 10, 2008; Page A1

Wall Street Gears for Its New Pain
Commercial Real Estate
To Yield Write-Downs;
Defaults Slim So Far
By LINGLING WEI and RANDALL SMITH
March 3, 2008; Page C1

Carlyle Capital strives
to fend off a meltdown
By PETER LATTMAN and RANDALL SMITH
THE WALL STREET JOURNAL ASIA
March 10, 2008

Building Slowdown Goes Commercial
By SCOTT PATTERSON and KRIS HUDSON
March 4, 2008; Page C1

Mr. Macklowe's $3 Billion Life Raft?
Developer Hopes Record Bids
For Tower Help Save Empire
By JENNIFER S. FORSYTH
February 20, 2008; Page B1

Last edited by dagobert; Mar 14, 2008 at 4:56 AM. Reason: Added article references
     
     
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