Connaught Tower | 305m | 100 storey | Proposed

[SteelTown]

If Stinson intends to open a Sales Office at the Connaught within three months we could see the front lobby area of the Connaught renovated and fixed up really soon, obviously after Stinson closes the deal *fingers crossed*

[WhipperSnapper]

So did he harm you personally or something?

Not at all. It's just frustrating how all you Hamiltonians are so deparate in falling for his spiel

The guy's a great bullshitter, a good broker, a decent real estate investor but a miserable developer. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the sale goes through that he plans to sit on the property and sell the Sapphire package to someone else for a nice profit providing his meglomania is in check. He's done that more often then developed.

I actually found his media coverage on how his One King project, designed by a 3rd rate local firm no less, will be the first international calibre design in a sea of architectural mediocrity (specifically mentioning TD Centre) amusing. Many others in the industry did not though.

[raisethehammer]

hindsight is 20-20...you TO guys were also drooling over Sapphire and it's "mark on the skyline" etc....when it was proposed.
Nobody is falling for a spiel....we see someone about to lay down real money in our downtown. You guys see that every week. We don't.
If it doesn't work, so be it.
We're at least excited by the fact that someone is trying.

[HAMRetrofit]

If anything this will stimulate reinvestment in downtown Hamilton. Whether or not this is a spiel remains to be seen. The city is on a sound footing with growing real estate figures and a diversifying economic base. No project yet has been attempted in the city with decent design standards. This is what makes the project unique in that it is testing the waters of uncharted territory. Good design and vision sell no matter where they end are. So I remain bullish on this project regardless of the skeptics of the naysaying peanut gallery. Toronto and Vancouver were once mouldering eyesores so hats off to anyone who has the balls to alter to course of Hamilton's history. Besides a little more competition in the region would be nice like in the old Toronto vs. Hamilton vs. Buffalo days.

[raisethehammer]

I agree.
Times are changing. Mississuaga is getting a new tallest (who'd have thought that 10 years ago?), Niagara Falls is too. Buffalo is even getting one after decades of decline.
The biggest problem in Southern Ontario for decades has been to try and cram everything in TO while the rest of the area sprawls out unsustainably.
Hamilton has all the urban framework in place to support a major downtown. Main Street from Queen to Walnut could easily support several 50+ storey towers. If Stinson pulls this off, it will start to happen. No reason why Hamilton should be left behind TO and Buffalo.

[shappy]

he tries to do everything himself and his presentation often comes across as very unprofessional. It's kinda easy to make fun of him. I've actually seen him frantically running down Yonge St... he oozes confidence (NOT).

[RePinion]

^ Agreed. Stinson clearly needs a marketing manager. He is far from being telegenic and those late night 1KW infomercials smacked of desperation and even shadiness. I hope he takes a higher road in Hamilton, but somehow I doubt this.

[HAMRetrofit]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

It can definitely be added to the supertall section as this proposal is above 300m. Add the rendering and your skyline view along with an article and start it up. Likely in the future they'll be more renderings as well as LikeHamilton pointed out.

I will let you do the honors.

[thistleclub]

Given the value most of us place on street-level life and sympathetic architectural identity (eg. neighbourly compatibility), I’m interested to see project renderings from Catharine and Main, where the stakes of intervention are highest (no pun intended). The mock-up that ran in the paper tells me very little, although it did trigger this strange association:





As far as the height goes, there’ll be some negotiation. I seem to recall hearing something about the height restriction being relative to the elevation of the escarpment. The Landmark flouted that rule (not coincidentally, as Frisina had been the first local builder to punch through the city’s height limit decades earlier) but I think there was a financial penalty.

I’m happy about the energy and momenum but pretty nonplussed by the design. I’d rather see downtown get a pair of bold, imaginative 40-storey buildings rather than a bland supertall. Europe seems to do okay by that method.

[raisethehammer]

I'm not aware of any height regarding the escarpment. That would be just stupid if it's the case.
this isn't Vancouver for crying out loud.
Stinson would have to get it pretty bad to screw up the intersection of Catharine and Main. Have you see in lately?? haha...looks like a war just happened.
He emphasized having street presence from the retail galleria on all 4 streets - Catharine, Main, King, John.
We'll see better renderings in a few weeks, but it sounds like he's going to design this complex in the manner that Jackson Square should have been designed.
I'd love to see an 80 storey tower, especially if it's visible to folks on the Mountain...might jog their memory and have them realize that there's a downtown in their city nearby.

[RePinion]

Love the handle - I wish the Thistle Club were still around. There's virtually nowhere to play squash in this city except Mac and the Y.

What's the connection with Battersea other than two disproportionately high structures reaching for the sky? haha

I personally would have preferred a few more architecturally interesting shorter towers than the Sapphire, whose aesthetics I find distinctly uninspiring, but alas ... we have to take what we can get at this point.

[SteelTown]

LikeHamilton mentioned that new renderings will come out within 3 weeks so during that time I suspect Stinson will close the deal and make another round of media exposure.

At least we don't have to wait like 90 days or anything just 28 days to go. Waiting that long would drive me nuts lol

[GreatTallNorth2]

Can someone tell me what residential development has taken place recently in downtown Hamilton? Has there been any significant buildings go up in the last 2-3 years? Usually projects and demand go hand in hand. In London we have seen about 2 or 3 towers a year go up (15-28 stories tall) for the last 3 years and there is good demand for these units. But in Hamilton, all of a sudden, a developer wants to put up this massive tower filled with residential? What gives? Isn't there something wrong with this picture? Now don't get me wrong. I would love to see this happen and I think it would turn some heads if he built it and filled it. I know developers in other cities would try to do the same if Stinson is successful. I just can't see this happening on this kind of scale. Maybe 35 stories or 40 stories maximum, but 70-80 in downtown Hamilton? Someone help me here.

[thistleclub]

raisethehammer: The height thing was just something I had heard. It's not as if there has been a stampede of developers itching to better the Landmark's height, so I have no idea if that's rooted in reality (which is why I qualified the comment). Obviously I'll take any building over a parking lot, but I'm still curious to see how it'll play. That area is pretty hostile to pedestrians and I think you'll concede that supertalls have the potential to be a little dehumanizing to the person on the street. But I'm prepared to see how it goes. Sidewalks wider than three feet would be a nice start. And the galleria alone could be great. In the Downtown Stores thread, I think someone mentioned the grocery store that used to be housed in the lower level of Terminal Towers. That shopping concourse also housed a furrier, high-end men's and women's clothiers, deli and pharmacy. Stepping west across Catharine, you could dine around the clock at Vinton’s/Fran’s or Golden Griddle. Getting those sort of consumer draws back on the block alongside the Connaught reno is psychologically invaluable – it’s as if the city’s getting the chance to rewrite a couple of lost decades.

RePinion: Battersea's a random association inspired by the rendering's passing resemblance to factory stacks and the placement of the Connaught played into that. And yeah, it's too bad that somebody couldn't save the Thistle Club, for racquetsport reasons as well as historic ones.

[SteelTown]

Originally Posted by GreatTallNorth2

Can someone tell me what residential development has taken place recently in downtown Hamilton? Has there been any significant buildings go up in the last 2-3 years? Usually projects and demand go hand in hand. In London we have seen about 2 or 3 towers a year go up (15-28 stories tall) for the last 3 years and there is good demand for these units. But in Hamilton, all of a sudden, a developer wants to put up this massive tower filled with residential? What gives? Isn't there something wrong with this picture? Now don't get me wrong. I would love to see this happen and I think it would turn some heads if he built it and filled it. I know developers in other cities would try to do the same if Stinson is successful. I just can't see this happening on this kind of scale. Maybe 35 stories or 40 stories maximum, but 70-80 in downtown Hamilton? Someone help me here.

Sit back, relax and let this all transform is all I can say really. It's all completely up to Harry Stinson himself, he obviously sees a chance for a 80 storey condo tower. This is his chance for a comeback, that's what he's really after.

[Goldfinger]

Originally Posted by GreatTallNorth2

Can someone tell me what residential development has taken place recently in downtown Hamilton? Has there been any significant buildings go up in the last 2-3 years? Usually projects and demand go hand in hand. In London we have seen about 2 or 3 towers a year go up (15-28 stories tall) for the last 3 years and there is good demand for these units. But in Hamilton, all of a sudden, a developer wants to put up this massive tower filled with residential? What gives? Isn't there something wrong with this picture? Now don't get me wrong. I would love to see this happen and I think it would turn some heads if he built it and filled it. I know developers in other cities would try to do the same if Stinson is successful. I just can't see this happening on this kind of scale. Maybe 35 stories or 40 stories maximum, but 70-80 in downtown Hamilton? Someone help me here.

Those buildings your referring to in London I would assume are the new rental apartment buildings Downtown. As far as I know, one was done by Tricar, the other by the Drewlo family.

It's important to note that those buildings have filled up at the expense of other older buildings in the city. There are huge vacancy problems on older buildings in London right now and the market is very soft as I have seen from the last few sales of buildings. My understanding from the Real Estate community there is that London, much like Hamilton is not a city of condo dwellers. Detached Housing is still affordable, abundant and there is no gridlock problems like we have in the GTA. The market for condos in both cities is limited.

That may change if Hamilton were to get all day GO train service. But until that happens, it's status quo.

From what I know, most condos do sell well in Hamilton, we have seen about 800-1000 units build all over the city in the past couple of years. All but one building have sold out.

[RePinion]

Originally Posted by Goldfinger

It's important to note that those buildings have filled up at the expense of other older buildings in the city. There are huge vacancy problems on older buildings in London right now and the market is very soft as I have seen from the last few sales of buildings. My understanding from the Real Estate community there is that London, much like Hamilton is not a city of condo dwellers. Detached Housing is still affordable, abundant and there is no gridlock problems like we have in the GTA. The market for condos in both cities is limited.

That may change if Hamilton were to get all day GO train service. But until that happens, it's status quo.

The viability of this project is something which has been questioned here only in murmurs and generally for reasons other than the health of the condo market in Hamilton. I think we need to consider this issue more seriously.

Goldfinger's post implicitly makes the argument that there must be a reason to build condos in order for a robust condo market to exist. In Hamilton I think people have chosen the condo option largely for reasons of convenience. In much larger cities like Toronto and Vancouver, people choose condos for much more compelling reasons - primarily because detached housing in the central city is prohibitively expensive, coupled with the fact that most people find the prospect of a very long commute extremely distasteful.

The simple truth of the matter is that we don't face these problems in Hamilton. High quality detached housing is in relatively vast supply at relatively affordable prices. It is certainly possible for a young couple in Hamilton to buy a detached house in a good neighbourhood at a reasonable price even before they reach the age of 30. This is not possible in a city like Toronto.

I don't see how GO service will necessarily increase the demand for condos in Hamilton. Presumably all day GO service will attract more commuters who might otherwise take up residence in Burlington or Mississauga, but if they are attracted to Hamilton it will probably be because of the large stock of detached quality homes which we have on offer. No one is going to come to Hamilton to live in a condo when there are so many already available in Mississauga, a much shorter commute to downtown TO. Obviously, an influx of people into Hamilton will drive up the price of homes, thus perhaps making condos a necessity for some, but this is a long term consideration.

Quite honestly, without meaning to be a naysayer, I think a strong argument can be made that the Hamilton market simply cannot support a project of the size proposed by Stinson. I do hope I am wrong, though.

[SteelTown]

Your missing a gaint piece here, affordability. That's what has been fueling Hamilton's housing market for the last decade now, as Globe and Mail puts it "Stealtown". There's a big price difference for condos/detached housing in the GTA than Hamilton.

[RePinion]

^ That is exactly the argument I was making ...

[RePinion]

There's not a great price difference between condos in Hamilton and somewhere like Brampton or Mississauga.