General Update/Rumour thread [Urban Ottawa]

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

from the Action Sandy Hill site

I've never understood the objection to the 594 Rideau site. The renderings are very nice: it's a really high quality design.

http://www.ottawa.ca/calendar/ottawa/citycouncil/occ/2007/05-09/pec/ACS2007-PTE-APR-0036.htm

I think their only objection to it is that it is something like 2 storeys higher than the Uptown Rideau CDP recommends, but those upper 2 floors are set back anyway.

The Rideau and Charlotte area is not very attractive right now- they should be thanking the developer for proposing something so nice that will improve the area.

[TransitZilla]

Whatever happened to 560 Rideau?

http://www.ottawa.ca/calendar/ottawa/citycouncil/occ/2003/09-03/ACS2003-DEV-APR-0149.htm

That looks like a nice building as well, and would replace some ugly empty lots and surface parking on Rideau.

[ajldub]

As much as I love Action Sandy Hill for saving the old beauties in their neighborhood, their NIMBYism around building heights on Rideau really surprises me sometimes. What Sandy Hill needs more than anything else is a vibrant retail strip...

[waterloowarrior]

recent omb decision

880 Greenbriar (Meadowlands/Prince of Wales area) was one example that I thought really showed how councillors can talk the talk about intensification but when it came down to it they'd bow to resident pressure, and that many are afraid of even slightly increased densities


from the Ottawa Sun

....
ADDED INSULT
And of course, when council goes against staff in these planning matters, it means the city actually has to hire its own expert witnesses, with the applicant calling the city's own staff to defend the position which is contrary to council's.

You can practically hear the cash register ringing.

Such was the case in the most recent OMB decision affecting the city.

Referred to as the Greenbriar case, council went against the staff recommendation, leaving Rolf Baumann appealing at the OMB to rezone lands at 880 Greenbriar Ave.

Baumann, the applicant, called senior Ottawa city planner John Smit to testify under subpoena on his behalf.

Smit testified that the proposal was a good example of infill and intensification, which fit the city's Official Plan. It's important to note here, that's a plan approved by city council.

The city was forced to hire an outside land use planner, Marc Rivet, who provided planning evidence opposing the proposal.

As the odds suggest, the city lost and the development is now approved.


The fight cost the city $11,000.

"The board finds the proposal represents good planning and that the amendments to the secondary plan and the said Official Plans that have been reviewed in the appeal," states the OMB decision released last week.

But Doucet says caving in simply because of the fear of what will happen at the OMB -- despite the high costs and possibility of losing -- is nothing less than "blackmail."

Like Doucet, Bay Coun. Alex Cullen says it's time the OMB is abolished.

"Absolutely," he said, suggesting the board was created several decades ago when municipal politicians worked part-time and didn't have the necessary planning expertise.

But Alta Vista Coun. Peter Hume, chairman of the planning committee, says it's not so simple to suggest the OMB should be disbanded.

APPEALS THE NORM
He points out other provincial governments have appeal processes, so whether it's a court of law or an independent body like the OMB, councils don't have the ultimate say in planning matters.

In Saskatchewan, for example, it's called the Planning Appeals Committee; in Alberta, it's the Municipal Government Board.


Hume says councils like Ottawa's need to accept responsibility for their own decisions.

"The real problem is that we approve policies, like growth, like intensification, but when the rubber hits the road, we vote against our own council-approved planning principles.

"And then we feel good about rejecting them, when in fact, the right thing to do was to implement them. As a result, these people go the municipal board, and the OMB looks at evidence.

"The tests of evidence are still the same. They have to go back and look at council's policies. The decision may revolve around how you interpret the secondary plan to control growth. It all depends on our Official Plan which promotes growth in our villages. That's what we'll be fighting. It's not that growth can occur, but how much and how fast."


....

staff report, comments from councillors/public

[Deez]

^pathetic.

Originally Posted by bradnixon

Whatever happened to 560 Rideau?

After the — store a block down the street, the Bell switchboard building, and the Horizon Towers, I would say nothing is holding back Rideau more than this empty lot. It's really unnerving that residents would rather contend with a fenced off piece of pavement than a building that is a few stories taller than what the current CDP recommends.

[citizen j]

^I've said it for years. What Ottawa needs is a person with a clear vision of what the city could be as an urbane, transit-oriented place. And then that person needs to be made benign-dictator and given unlimited, absolute power. ... I'm kinda busy right now, so I nominate Deez.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by Deez

^pathetic.



After the — store a block down the street, the Bell switchboard building, and the Horizon Towers, I would say nothing is holding back Rideau more than this empty lot. It's really unnerving that residents would rather contend with a fenced off piece of pavement than a building that is a few stories taller than what the current CDP recommends.

I found the OMB decision which dismissed ASH's appeal: http://www.omb.gov.on.ca/e%2Ddecisions/pl031085%5F%230999.pdf

That was almost 4 years ago... so it seems like Richcraft is just sitting on this one...

But it looks like Richcraft owns:
-Galleria (in progress)
-560 Rideau
-594 Rideau
-228-242 Besserer (are we sure this is Richcraft? Someone mentioned above that it is but I'm not sure if that's confirmed)
-a lot on the south side of Besserer directly across from 560 Rideau (mentioned in the OMB report link above).

They don't seem to be rushing anything to market- do you think it's because they just want to finish the Galleria first or are they setting up for the future?

I never really understood why builders would buy a site, hire an architect, design the building, get the project approved by council, win the OMB appeal, and then just sit on it. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

[p_xavier]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

I never really understood why builders would buy a site, hire an architect, design the building, get the project approved by council, win the OMB appeal, and then just sit on it. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Well I think it's simple, overflooding of the market. There's no point of pushing new buildings if the space is not sold.

[Deez]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

-228-242 Besserer (are we sure this is Richcraft? Someone mentioned above that it is but I'm not sure if that's confirmed)

After doing some snooping, I've confirmed that Richcraft owns those lots. The development would share Galleria's below-grade parking.

[harls]

Richcraft's involved with the lot near Bay/Gloucester as well (16 storey proposal).

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by d_jeffrey

Well I think it's simple, overflooding of the market. There's no point of pushing new buildings if the space is not sold.

If that's the case, why are they stil submitting new development applications, when they already have 3 or 4 projects approved that are ready to go?

Why not wait until there's a need?

[clynnog]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

I never really understood why builders would buy a site, hire an architect, design the building, get the project approved by council, win the OMB appeal, and then just sit on it. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Sometimes by the time the whole cycle has ended...ie. buy the land, hire consultants, go through the zoning and site plan process, have the application appealed to the OMB, go through an OMB hearing 2 -3 years or more may have passed. By that time, a builders priorities may have changed, the original competition for clients may have built already, the market may have changed, interest rates may have gone up etc....many things may have changed and many developers turn on a dime as they have very fluid plans/priorities (some people may construe this to mean that developers don't know what they want to do).

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by clynnog

Sometimes by the time the whole cycle has ended...ie. buy the land, hire consultants, go through the zoning and site plan process, have the application appealed to the OMB, go through an OMB hearing 2 -3 years or more may have passed. By that time, a builders priorities may have changed, the original competition for clients may have built already, the market may have changed, interest rates may have gone up etc....many things may have changed and many developers turn on a dime as they have very fluid plans/priorities (some people may construe this to mean that developers don't know what they want to do).

Fair enough... I guess I just want them to get going on 560 Rideau already... as Deez mentioned, the empty lot is one of the worst things on Rideau, and the proposed building looks very attractive.

[TransitZilla]

New planning committe agenda out: http://www.ottawa.ca/calendar/ottawa/citycouncil/pec/2008/02-26/agendaindex27.htm

Mostly suburban stuff- most interesting is for an 11-storey retirement residence near South Keys.

There is an update on the James St. Feed Company site redevelopment:
http://www.ottawa.ca/calendar/ottawa/citycouncil/pec/2008/02-26/ACS2008-PTE-PLA-0059.htm

Rendering:


Councillor Holmes likes it, but she couldn't let it go through without some nitpicking: "The seventh floor appears to extend one storey above the current height limit of 18 metres. What relief would you be seeking to obtain this increase"

Gawd....

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

Nice find, dude!

Anyone have any word on what's going on with the new Galaxy Camera Flagship Store?

[harls]

This is over a month old, and may have been already posted here.. but oh well.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2008/01/16/ot-hull-080116.html

Gatineau mulls allowing taller towers in Old Hull

Last Updated: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 | 5:23 PM ET
CBC News

A plan to revitalize Gatineau's historical downtown Hull district with towering condominiums is getting mixed reviews from local residents and businesses.

A building height limit of 15 storeys will be lifted in Old Hull under a draft plan endorsed by Gatineau city council Tuesday.

The plan is intended to encourage the construction of new residential buildings and bring new residents into the area.

Charles Masse, spokesman for a local real estate development company, said the area has lots of prime land waiting to be developed, but new condominium towers must be lofty enough to prevent their views from being blocked by tall government buildings nearby.

"We need the view," said Masse, the planning director for the Heafey Group. "If we don't have the view, well — we will not be able to sell our products."

He blamed the current height limit for the lack of condominiums being built in the area.

Terri Poole, owner of the Euro Bistro café at Place du Portage agreed that the height restriction should be lifted to encourage more people to live in the area.

"There hasn't been a lot of money spent on condominiums and I think that it would be a positive change for all the restaurants involved here," she said Wednesday.

Her restaurant is full of government workers at lunchtime, but much quieter on most nights and weekends.

Some people who already live in the area said they are concerned about the impact highrises would have on the neighbourhood's historical character.

Claude Royer, spokesman for a Hull residents association, said he doesn't want building height limits raised.

"It's going to ruin the quality of life, won't be harmonious with the existing neighbourhood," he said.

Instead, he wants the limits lowered to eight storeys, something he described as a "human scale."

That height would be feasible for developers if they changed their focus, he said.

"They're aiming for [the] luxury condo market," he said. "And if they were to, say, aim for [a] different market, the eight floors would be probably acceptable."

Public consultations on the draft plan will be held this summer.

Ruin the quality of life? What's that...watching the hookers buying Cheetos at Giant Tiger? Sitting and sipping 'un gros Ex' on your front porch?

What's the difference if it's 8 or 16 storeys... the people that move into these places are still going to change the dynamic of vieux-Hull.

[p_xavier]

Originally Posted by harls

This is over a month old, and may have been already posted here.. but oh well.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2008/01/16/ot-hull-080116.html


Ruin the quality of life? What's that...watching the hookers buying Cheetos at Giant Tiger? Sitting and sipping 'un gros Ex' on your front porch?

What's the difference if it's 8 or 16 storeys... the people that move into these places are still going to change the dynamic of vieux-Hull.

Having lived there for a year. I can assure you that some people like to be poor, they take pride in being slugs to society. They don't want new people, because they are all so proud of their poverty and lack of culture, that they don't want any contrast in their lives. They are too lazy to actually get a genuine quality of life, so they don't want anyone or anything to actually show that they are lazy.

[clynnog]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

Councillor Holmes likes it, but she couldn't let it go through without some nitpicking: "The seventh floor appears to extend one storey above the current height limit of 18 metres. What relief would you be seeking to obtain this increase"
Gawd....

You need to realize that with Councillor Holmes she needs to get the last word in on any application. IMHO she is one of the biggest suburban bashers on Council (along with Doucet) but when any application comes along that could provide some density in Centretown she gets very protective. From what I hear, she is the bane of existence for some City Planners.

[harls]

Originally Posted by Jamaican-Phoenix

Anyone have any word on what's going on with the new Galaxy Camera Flagship Store?

Haven't heard anything. This sign's been gone for a while now.

(Photo is from March of last year)

[Mille Sabords]

Originally Posted by clynnog

You need to realize that with Councillor Holmes she needs to get the last word in on any application. IMHO she is one of the biggest suburban bashers on Council (along with Doucet) but when any application comes along that could provide some density in Centretown she gets very protective. From what I hear, she is the bane of existence for some City Planners.

Her rationale in such issues as voting IN FAVOUR of Minto's project in Manotick is nothing short of baffling: "Let them build out there as much as they want so we won't get another highrise in my neighbourhood." Methinks she might benefit from reacquainting herself with the city's official plan.