Lister Block | ? | 6 fl | Renovation

[raisethehammer]

the condo towers will go wherever they can get public money. and lots of it.

[flar]

Talk of new towers shouldn't be taken seriously, they're just throwing stuff out randomly. They can't even move on the existing buildings. It's all wild speculation as they obviously don't have any firm plans.

[realcity]

"up to 12 storeys high and containing about 100 units" WOWZERS... A whole 12-floors (max)!!!!!... and seniors no less.... given two seniors in every apartment, that's what??? Almost 200 new old people living downtown. How could the city ever walk away from that?

Note to Council.... walk away, in fact run away from Green/Liuna. This is bullshit, and no guarantee to a condo (so-called) tower anyway... Come on Stinson. Buy it, take the $7 mill and convert to a 45 story high end condo. Use the ground floor as boutique retail and second level for grocery, it'd be a huge success.

[raisethehammer]

haha...I thought I was the only young person who used the word WOWZERS.

yea, this is a load of crap. these guys just make stuff up every few weeks. next it'll be a casino, then it'll be stacked townhouses, then it'll be an observation tower. what a joke.
the city should trust any of their numbers. they just toss them around like pizza dough. easy to poke holes in too.

[DC83]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

haha...I thought I was the only young person who used the word WOWZERS..

You and Inspector Gadget! hahaha

Ever since I discovered Lister (I think I was 13 or 14), I've wanted it to have a grocery chain on the main floor. I think it would fit perfectly into the area.

I can just see LIUNA's "pitch" to seniors for these units: "Just steps from the Fabulous Delta Bingo! WOW!"

[HAMRetrofit]

EXPROPRIATE

Send a clear message. Compensate them with a stern kick to the curb.

Convert it to a museum of early twentieth century Ontario Architecture. Ask for more financial contribution from the province. Does Hamilton even have a museum that is provincially funded?

[raisethehammer]

convert it to lofts and condos. the city could make a bundle.
delta bingo...hilarious!

[HAMRetrofit]

I would not give stale bread crumbs to this group of glorified panhandlers.

[matt602]

I'm convinced now that the city just needs to walk away from this completely. They must also make sure that there is no way LIUNA can get a demolition permit. If these two things happen, they'll be forced to walk away and sell to a real developer (because it's quite obvious that theres no way in hell they'll restore the building on their own dime).

[markbarbera]

Posted today on the CHML website:

Lister Block Restoration Has New Hope
Feb, 11 2008 - 5:40 PM


HAMILTON (AM900 CHML) - February.27th could be the next big date for the Lister Block.
Hamilton City Council will meet that evening, likely to decide whether to accept an offer to purchase the heritage building, once it has been restored.

The latest figures presented to city politicians suggest that with borrowing costs factored in, it would cost 32 million dollars over 20 years to buy the restored building.

That is at least ten million dollars cheaper than a previously rejected proposal to lease space in it.

The latest cost estimates will be reviewed by an "outside consultant", before Hamilton politicians vote on the purchase offer in two weeks. A decision must be made quickly to avoid losing seven million dollars in provincial funding.

Mayor Eisenberger is hopeful that City Council will approve the purchase, calling the Lister Block project a "beacon" for whether we are on the path of downtown rehabilitation.

[raisethehammer]

as long as council puts these demands in place:

1. STREETFRONT RETAIL in the old arcade. Not more crappy office cubicles.
2. A REAL heritage reno organization be involved in every aspect of the project so we don't let LIUNA cheap out and leave us with a piece of crap.
3. The city ends being the SOLE owner of the place and surrounding properties that are attached.

[HAMRetrofit]

Can someone explain to me why the city cannot buy this building before renovation?

It would seem logical that buying the building and then tendering to several contractors for bids would be more economical.

[matt602]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

as long as council puts these demands in place:

1. STREETFRONT RETAIL in the old arcade. Not more crappy office cubicles.
2. A REAL heritage reno organization be involved in every aspect of the project so we don't let LIUNA cheap out and leave us with a piece of crap.
3. The city ends being the SOLE owner of the place and surrounding properties that are attached.

I wouldn't expect any of those to come true. The city needs every inch of the place for office space. So far that has hinted at raping the arcade of it's historical value. The city may end up owning Lister but LIUNA will continue to own the adjacent buildings (and most likely demolish them VERY soon after or during the restoration).

Originally Posted by HAMRetrofit

Can someone explain to me why the city cannot buy this building before renovation?

It would seem logical that buying the building and then tendering to several contractors for bids would be more economical.

It's simple: because LIUNA will not sell in ANY other terms than their own. Of course it's logical, but LIUNA is holding all the cards here.

[HAMRetrofit]

^ okay so why can it not be expropriated on the basis that it is a provincially designated historical building not being properly maintained? The ball is clearly in the city's court. If the property owners are not going to provide fair pricing on the restoration and are threatening demolition there is clearly no other option. The property owners can be fairly compensated in the process.

[matt602]

Because it's not actually designated as a historical building, I think it just has some kind of "designated as a building of historic interest" which doesn't hold as much power.

[SteelTown]

Time to buy Lister, says Eisenberger

February 12, 2008
Nicole Macintyre
The Hamilton Spectator

The city will decide within two weeks if it wants to revive the Lister Block by purchasing the downtown landmark.

It would cost the city $32.4 million over the next 20 years to buy the restored building -- more than $9 million less than the cost of leasing the space.

Mayor Fred Eisenberger said he's ready to approve the project, describing the latest price tag as "reasonable" and "doable" for the city.

"I think it's time to move."

Councillors agreed yesterday to have a peer review of the numbers presented by the Laborers' International Union of North America (LIUNA) and Hi-Rise, joint partners in the project. The consultant will report back by council's meeting on Feb 27.

The city is under a tight deadline to hang onto $7 million the province committed to restoring the Lister. Council is formally asking the province to allow the city to use the money toward the purchase price, instead of a lease as originally planned. Eisenberger said he's heard strong assurances the government will support the new plan.

If the city lost the grant, it would cost $43.7 million to buy the building.

The city's deal to help restore the Lister Block appeared dead last month when council balked at the developers' suggesting it would cost the city $37 a square foot gross to rent the building's 60,000 square feet, after including the provincial grant. The developers pushed back with the cheaper purchase option, noting it also gives the city an asset in the end.

"We want to deal with you with complete transparency," said LIUNA vice-president Joe Mancinelli, welcoming the peer review of the financial data.

"We're not trying to gouge anyone here."

Mancinelli said LIUNA has already invested $3.8 million into the derelict building. He said it's cheaper for the city to buy the building because the city gets a better borrowing rate than private developers can.

Eisenberger pushed councillors yesterday to approve an agreement in principle. He dropped his request after several councillors said they want to see the peer reviewed numbers first and consult with the community.

"I want bulletproof numbers," said Councillor Lloyd Ferguson. He was reassured the final price tag would be fixed for the city no matter what happens during the renovation.

The developers say there's interest in building two residential towers behind the restored Lister, one for condos and the other as a retirement home.

[flar]

Now it's two towers?

I'm not sure I support the city buying Lister. They really need to firm up their plans for future office space. Presently they don't even know if they will be moving back to City Hall for sure. If they eventually decide to build a new City Hall, the purchase of Lister would be a mistake as that $32 million could be put toward the new building.

[raisethehammer]

on the other hand, owning Lister is much better than leasing it. even after city hall is renovated they'll need to lease a ton of space downtown. and if downtown real estate really takes off, they can sell Lister and make a mint.

[Jon Dalton]

I honestly hope this just goes through. It's not ideal, it's taxpayers' money and the developers may not be the best for the job, but at least it will be moving forward if this deal is signed. I'm sure the contract would include some basic design specifications to make sure they can't botch the job and leave the city to deal with it. And for those who really want LIUNA out of the picture, they will be, once it's handed over to the city.

[raisethehammer]

its' funny how LIUNA said today "it's for sale, but ONLY to the city". Gee, I wonder why?