McMaster Primary Health Care Campus | ? | 6 fl | Complete

[SteelTown]

The only major issue that the School Board has with the downtown location is parking. They are afraid they can't afford a parking garage hence why they like the Mountain location, no need for a parking garage just a parking lot.

But that issue should be resolved once McMaster, the City, School Board and possibly the hotels join together and build the parking garage. The School Board can finance a new building it's just the garage. They have now until April to work out a financial deal with all parties inolved in this project, that includes Braley. A lot of back room discussions will be taking place.

[hamiltonguy]

Exactly, the board should be making money on this. Jerome (A huge site if you go there and check it out) +6 other sites they can sell. Plus money from Mac, The City, and TWO Hotel Companies for space at the board's current site. They'd have to be idiots NOT to make money from this. I hope they money they make goes into a Fund where the Capital + Grow up to Inflation is protected and They spend the interest over inflation on repairing our quite frankly 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 schools, and expanding ones that are overcrowded *coughs* like finishing adding Westmount's second Story *Coughs*

[SteelTown]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

But that issue should be resolved once McMaster, the City, School Board and possibly the hotels join together and build the parking garage. The School Board can finance a new building it's just the garage. They have now until April to work out a financial deal with all parties inolved in this project, that includes Braley. A lot of back room discussions will be taking place.

I forgot to include the province as well. The financial deal will fit in perfectly with Queen's Park budget time around March or April, provincial contribution towards the medicine centre. An interesting fact is that Braley is one of Dalton's largest private donator. Dalton owes him as Braley couldn’t get a casino license for Hamilton, moratorium.

[SteelTown]

Saving education centre won't get more study
Board limits business case to moving out or rebuilding on another owned site

By Richard Leitner
News
Feb 01, 2008

A city proposal to level the Education Centre to make way for a massive redevelopment will get a serious second look as an alternative to moving out of the downtown landmark.

Hamilton-Wentworth District School Board trustees emerged from a brief closed-door session on Monday to give staff the go-ahead to develop a business plan that considers both options.

Despite public pleas, saving the Education Centre won't get any more study because, according to a staff report, "retaining and renovating the current building is not a cost-effective option."

Only trustees Lillian Orban and Ray Mulholland opposed the two-option plan, with Flamborough Trustee Karen Turkstra abstaining.

Board chair Judith Bishop acknowledged afterwards the public has been given few details to judge staff's cost estimates of the seven options presented since last fall.

Trustees have received more information, both in closed-door sessions and at three private "workshops" or "briefings" held last October.

"The cheapest thing we have is $33 million and we can't afford that," Ms. Bishop said. "The business plan which will be coming in April will have the firmed-up numbers," she said.

"(Staff) have given very broad concepts. They've indicated what those numbers include, but you're right, they're still soft."

The cheapest option -- and the one favoured by staff all along -- calls for the construction of new headquarters at Jerome Park on the West Mountain, estimated at $33 million.

The other remaining option is the city's proposal to redevelop the Education Centre site for two hotels, a McMaster University family medicine centre and new headquarters for both the board and city health department.

It doesn't have a price tag but its seriousness has been questioned by at least one trustee because the city has also said it hopes to relocate the health department to the Lister Block.

The cost of renovating the Education Centre is unclear because staff have included it as part of an option that would also refurbish six other buildings, initially estimated at $44 million in total.

The latest staff report now states the cost could be as high as $65 million, but gives no explanation for the increase other than potential "surprise costs."

Ms. Bishop said the board is "trying to be as transparent as possible," but discussion often ventures into land values and contractual matters that are properly dealt with behind closed doors.

"We're very scrupulous about when we go in-camera," she said. "We're trying to let everyone know where we're at. It is a bit of a balancing act because we're in negotiations, too."

During the brief portion of the meeting that was public, staff didn't have many answers to the few questions trustees did ask.

Ms. Orban was told her queries about the cost of infrastructure and converting the Jerome Park site's current agricultural zoning will be answered as part of the business plan.

A similar response was given when Ms. Turkstra asked how much the board spends on renting outside space for staff training.

She said she's "not entirely convinced" the board needs to build a training centre as part of any new headquarters, as proposed by staff.

[HAMRetrofit]

How come no option was explored for renovating the existing education building while constructing an above ground parkade/mixed used office structure on the adjacent parking lot? Combined with selling off all of their office properties scattered throughout the city this would likely be the most economical. They could make a lot of money just selling off that Jerome site.

[markbarbera]

The biggest beef I have with the way city politics works in Hamilton is illustrated here.

An elected body wants to take one specific course of action. In order to make it look like the action is arrived at through democratic decision-making, they hold public meetings to 'explore' options. The options are presented by staff with (usually implicit) direction to shine favourable light on the desired course of action, and present all other options as unfavourable. Unbiased third-party input is discouraged. Public meetings are scheduled in small spaces at less-than-accommodating times (if held at all), and input is gathered but not given true deliberation. Closed-door meetings greatly outnumber public meetings on the topic, then the council/board emerges from a final closed-door meeting with a vote in favour of the original course of action.

This is why people are so cynical about politics. And politicians love cynicism as it means that their actions are not subject to scrutiny. And they can make bad decisions like this.

[the dude]

ya, they've already made a decision. the question now is whether or not someone can convince them to stay downtown. by convince i mean hand them a big cheque.

here's another idea of mine that people will laugh at: why not let people farm the land on the jerome site? ya, that's stupid.

i'm guessing this is the approximate location of the site in question:

[SteelTown]

^ Nope, that's the site of a massive housing project, it was just on the news as RTH website joked about as being mixed used residential development.

That land will be part of the 40-60 Greenbelt equation as it's considered urban infill.

[the dude]

k...i think it's somewhere in here:

[SteelTown]

^ Yep! The same land HHS is looking at for a new hospital as well.

[HAMRetrofit]

Wow what a profoundly idiotic location for the board of education. The children are the future and the people who want to teach them have decided to move here. I am nervous about the future of humanity.

[DC83]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

^ Yep! The same land HHS is looking at for a new hospital as well.

hahaha Sooo, it's pretty much a no-brainer for those who have a brain: Sell off the Jerome site to HHS, then build downtown!

Is it really that complicated that they need to study the 🞵🞵🞵🞵 out of this?

[hamiltonguy]

I believe the one on the left is Jerome but I could be mistaken.

[realcity]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

The only major issue that the School Board has with the downtown location is parking. They are afraid they can't afford a parking garage hence why they like the Mountain location, no need for a parking garage just a parking lot.

But that issue should be resolved once McMaster, the City, School Board and possibly the hotels join together and build the parking garage. The School Board can finance a new building it's just the garage. They have now until April to work out a financial deal with all parties inolved in this project, that includes Braley. A lot of back room discussions will be taking place.

And we can't afford to keep using our land like this (surface parking lots, low density, auto-centric, wasted space on useless landscaping).

The School Board should be ashamed of themselves for proposing a solution with no foresight, no creative/independent thinking, and a building solution that will have a shorter lifespan then the catastrophe they occupy now. Next election I'm going find out what Trustees supported the mountain option and expose them for their total 'unleadership' and 'trusteeship'.

[raisethehammer]

keep checking www.raisethehammer.org this weekend for an exclusive update regarding this project, complete with renderings!

[SteelTown]

Aerial view of proposed Education Centre


Corner of Bay and King, showing front entrance to Board of Education in left corner.


Corner of Bay and Main

[DC83]

EDIT: Get out of my head, Steeltown!! hahaha That's crazy! We posted it at the EXACT same time (12:16pm)!!

[SteelTown]

Lmao

[raisethehammer]

those are high rez if anyone wants to enlarge them...let me know if you can't. I've got high rez copies on file.

[SteelTown]

I tried enlarging them but they got fuzzy. Email it [email protected]

Should have said Their + Curran Architects is the architect. During my Christmas dinner for work at Old Mills I got to meet one of the architect from Their + Curran Architects, talked to him all night about downtown Hamilton. His wife works at my place. They recently moved from Toronto to Hamilton, two young professionals (a brain surgeon (we deal with brain tumours) and an architect)