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  #3421  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2008, 5:30 AM
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And certainly not in this economy. LA was late to the high rise condo game. If Wilshire-Barrington can't break ground on the highly desirable West Side, what makes you think that that Park 5th, Glass Tower, ect would go forward? Grand Ave is subsidized and that get delayed over and over.

If it ain't out of the ground at this point, it ain't happening for a while.
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  #3422  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2008, 5:38 AM
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I do think that the economy will get better before it gets worse(r) so I do have faith that Park Fifth will rise. Later than sooner however.
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  #3423  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2008, 6:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MapGoulet View Post
Damn, I totally agree with you Edluva. Thanks for the balanced tone. The geographic reach of downtown, especially relative to the expanse of the urbanized "center" of LA, is too small, islolated, and incidental to support urbanism on a grand scale. And looking to other cities for inspiration is good for economic development, but bad for identity, perception, and growth of new culture. Regardless, it will be interesting to see what we do end up with in the next few years.

We already are seeing some examples. To me, South Park is largely sterile and devoid of community, however, I would say that the Old Bank District at 4th and Main feels to me to be the first "organic" neighborhood to hit LA in many years. Particulary now that other property owners (not just Gilmore) are spreading the retail and the rehab to neighboring buildings, and thus extending the neighborhood incrementally and without a grand plan.

well, manhattan isn't "24 hours", but times square is. We already have hollywood, which resembles times square much more than any part of our city, and is quite organic at that. Koreatown/Mid-city is our midtown. Bev Hills our Park Ave. Our core includes DTLA and the rest of the basin stretching to UCLA. We all know this to death, but when considering the role DTLA serves the region, we forget and get all parochial again. I think we need to ask ourselves what exactly we want DTLA to become. It's already a business district a la lower manhattan. What are we trying to get here? time's square, UES, lower manhattan, gaslamp, SOHO, tribeca, park ave, and garment district into 3 square miles? Wannabe's having an identity crisis.

In my opinion, DTLA should do well to bring middle to high-end retail and hoteliers for purely functional reasons, and that's already (rightfully) slowly occurring, but we should not close-off entire streets to pedestrians in vain attempts to create a 3 sq mile version of manhattan ovenight - otherwise we become some hotshot provincial downtown like san diego or cleveland which is still spat on by people of any amount of real esteem. Do we really want to create another disneyfied 3rd street promenade? "look i'm LA's very own new york!" - yeah, that's the way to build an identity. I'm really happy this real estate slump is hitting us hard so we lose the opportunity to fuck things up even more. The seed has been planted and the timing's perfect as far as i'm concerned. It's just sort of sad LA Live had to happen. Talk about provincial.

My Rx for this city is really simple - build dense rail lines all over the basin, free up zoning restrictions for density accordingly, and then leave everything the fuck alone for 25 years and stop trying so damn hard to be something. That's LA's problem - it tries too damn hard to be something else. You know the greatest things about LA, and I think most will agree with me, are those things which came about without trying whatsoever - e.g. ethnic hoods like K-town, little ethiopia, south central, etc., the race struggles narrative and its significance to our nation's history, west coast hip-hop, the decentralized layout despite its cursed byproducts of traffic, etc....yes there is a side to LA that is not vain and when accepted warts and all, is quite beautiful as an unfolding drama of urban life. Anybody remember the LA 2016 olympics video? if not, watch it, and then watch chicago's. That is a vain attempt at portrayal. Stop it already.

i'm not directing this at you mapgoulet - just ranting.

Last edited by edluva; Jan 31, 2008 at 7:24 AM.
     
     
  #3424  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2008, 8:22 AM
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^Edluva, You're really out there aren't you? You have LA all figured out, right? Do you actually involve yourself directly or indirectly in any form of city planning or in any way at all or do you just sit at your computer and "rant" here at SSP?

It's not at all that LA is "trying" to be anything, It already just is what it is. That's all. Period. To me, living here, DTLA already has it's own unique persona umatched anywhere I've ever been. I love living here and look foward immensly to all the proposed developments. Most people I know here feel the same way. People want convenience, entertainment and necessities where they live. That don't want to have to go to another part of town to get them.

There is a third st because people like to shop, have a choice for dinner, go to a movie, all while only parking once. People like go out and walk in a fairly safe comfortable place outdoors that includes these amenities in one place.

From south park I can see many, many people walking to and from Staples and Nokia, currently walking right past what will soon be LA Live. There, for the same reasons and more, a large percentage of them will soon stop for dinner, drinks, movies, clubs, bowling, etc. in addition to the many residents of DT that also enjoy that kind of atmosphere. Many of the restaurants and shops in DT are often full of people from Staples or Nokia 4 or 5 nights a week nowdays.

DTLA is also getting known for it's many galleries and museums as well. Having the theaters on Broadway restored will be another icon for the area. Seems like DT is also getting known for it's clubs and raves as well as the local bars that are getting very popular lately. Of course the Standard and Takami are always busy. There spilling out the doors of places like the Library or the Golden Gopher or 7 Grand.

All if this development is fine with me and many people like me. I hear it all the time from people how they want to live DT because it suits there lifestyle. Sure there is more to do in life than just the things I've mentioned but of course people other things to. They just do the kind of things DT provides more often.

You have it all wrong ed.
     
     
  #3425  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2008, 3:54 PM
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Progress at 9th and Flower
     
     
  #3426  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2008, 4:00 PM
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^ That's a nice view, there k3d.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JDRCRASH View Post
Colemonkee, do you think you could add that new Tower to Page #1?
Sure thing, dude. I'm off to Mammoth for a long weekend to enjoy some of this epic snow we just got, but I'll update the front page when I get back.
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  #3427  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2008, 5:03 PM
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Nice pics K3d.

Enjoy your stay at the "farthest suburb of L.A." Colemonkee!!!! Are you going there by car? It's a long and desolate drive up there, that's for sure.
The condos and hotels under construction or just finished up there are absolutely stunning. In fact, for a while, they were experiencing a little boom themselves.

How much snow did they get so far? 5 ft?
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  #3428  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2008, 5:31 PM
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Thanks Cole and JD. Yes, I enjoy the views immensely.

Has anyone tried Colori on 8th/Olive? Crowded already. They don't sell wine yet but you can bring your own I think. I don't drink so I'm not sure. You probably need a reservation on the weekend.
     
     
  #3429  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2008, 5:36 PM
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I have to wait a couple of years till i'm old enough, then I can find out!

I did accidentally mix some wine with water once, and the glass was half full; I didn't enjoy it that much.
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  #3430  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2008, 5:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDRCRASH View Post
I have to wait a couple of years till i'm old enough, then I can find out!

I did accidentally mix some wine with water once, and the glass was half full; I didn't enjoy it that much.
Sorry, I should have said Colori Italian restaurant. The food is great, and the pricing is surprisingly low. Nice atmosphere as well. Dark, exposed brick and cement walls, large prints of downtown construction and landmarks. Very comfortable there.
     
     
  #3431  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2008, 6:15 PM
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Originally Posted by JDRCRASH View Post
Stephanie Holbrook, a spokesperson for the Park Fifth project, tells us today that groundbreaking has been pushed back to the third quarter of 2008.

Even with the significant delay, Holbrook asserts that the first tower is still on track to meet its 2010 completion.
That is not a surprise to me----although no less dissapointing----since a friend of a friend who works in city govt mentioned a few months ago that the devlpr would not begin construction in the first qtr of this yr, as first publicized. I remember originally thinking, after the earliest estimated start up date of Oct 07 came & went, that March 2008 sounded far off into the future. Now March sounds reasonable, with June or July or Sept sounding like a long time to wait.

However...


Quote:
Originally Posted by k3d View Post
Progress at 9th and Flower
Since it seems that the pace of work on Concerto & Astani's bldg really is starting to fly, & to give the amt of new housing in the pipeline the most time possible to be absorbed, it's just as well that totally new projs not be piggybacking too closely with current devlpt. IOW, it's more realistic that the groundbreaking schedule for proposals like parkfifth & LA central be pushed forward. Maybe even Grand Ave too, although I still can't find enough patience to accept the idea of that proj not being under full, total construction til well after mid 2008.


Quote:
To me, living here, DTLA already has it's own unique persona umatched anywhere I've ever been. I love living here and look foward immensly to all the proposed developments. Most people I know here feel the same way. People want convenience, entertainment and necessities where they live. That don't want to have to go to another part of town to get them.

All if this development is fine with me and many people like me. I hear it all the time from people how they want to live DT because it suits there lifestyle.
DTLA really is the only hood in LA that offers a more urban setting. Others hoods popular in soCA tend to be more burban in their look & layout, inc SaMo or Westwood, Century City. DTLB has some urban qualities, but at this time it's scale & dimensions still are narrower than even DTLA. That's kind of offset by the advantage of an oceanfront location, but the advantage of more cultural options goes to DTLA.



Quote:
Originally Posted by edluva View Post
My Rx for this city is really simple - build dense rail lines all over the basin, free up zoning restrictions for density accordingly, and then leave everything the fuck alone for 25 years and stop trying so damn hard to be something.
Your RX ain't gonna happen anytime soon. Like it or not, for economic, logistical & political reasons, rail transit on a truly meaningful level in LA----for example, where the red line is extended all the way to SaMo----won't be taking place til most of us are old & gray. And, again, like it or not, NIMBYism will continue to run circles around zoning laws, regardless of how they're configured.

So in the meantime should everyone do nothing but complain about things like Beverly Hills being too much like a guzzied up version of Mission Viejo? Or should we be spending time bad mouthing new attempts at revitalizing Broadway?
     
     
  #3432  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2008, 6:30 PM
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^I got to agree with citywatch ed (god thats so hard to say). But Los Angeles has been served a shit load of lemons, and making lemonade is what dictates the majority of planning in this city. Is it the right way? Will it help anything in the long run? Hell no. Your RX for the city is spot on. But we can count on LA to drop the ball with rail. In fact, so much so, that a serious lack of rail for a long time should actually become part of the planning process in LA.
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  #3433  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2008, 6:31 PM
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Originally Posted by JDRCRASH View Post
Nice pics K3d.

Enjoy your stay at the "farthest suburb of L.A." Colemonkee!!!! Are you going there by car? It's a long and desolate drive up there, that's for sure.
The condos and hotels under construction or just finished up there are absolutely stunning. In fact, for a while, they were experiencing a little boom themselves.

How much snow did they get so far? 5 ft?
I know it is off topic but there are some nice projects going on in Mammoth, here are two that I know of:

http://www.theresidencesmammoth.com/#/residences/



http://www.starwoodhotels.com/westin/pro...yID=1562&EM=VTY_WI_mammoth_1562_overview

     
     
  #3434  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2008, 6:34 PM
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That's awesome!
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  #3435  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2008, 6:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citywatch View Post
Your RX ain't gonna happen anytime soon. Like it or not, for economic, logistical & political reasons, rail transit on a truly meaningful level in LA----for example, where the red line is extended all the way to SaMo----won't be taking place til most of us are old & gray. And, again, like it or not, NIMBYism will continue to run circles around zoning laws, regardless of how they're configured.
I don't understand this attitude. You're not exactly revealing any revelations when you continually beat this drum of "oh rail aint' gonna be built soon so just give up on it." I don't understand this aversion to rail. In my opinion, the largest obstacle in getting a comprehensive transit system in place aren't NIMBYs or lack of funding. It's lack of political will. There are methods and innovative ways of securing funds whether through private-public partnership, parcel taxes, voter initiatives. People won't hike taxes for rail unless the political will is there to show them that its a worthwhile investment. Transit should be LA's number one priority. If its one thing we all complain about as Angelenos and southern californias, whether we're an artist in Silver Lake, a factory worker in Torrance, a day laborer from Boyle Heights, a studio head in malibu, its traffic traffic traffic and goes beyond simply making our urban hoods pretty. Its a quality of life issue, one that wont be resolved by simply building those sterile shiny towers you love so much. Oh and as older propertyowners, hopefully NIMBYs will die off soon.
     
     
  #3436  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2008, 6:45 PM
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I don't think we will have to wait until we are old and have gray hairs to wait for a high efficient Transit system here in L.A.

The more traffic gets worse here, the more the price of constructing such a network will stabilize.
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  #3437  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2008, 6:49 PM
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Woah, where did this come from?:


Maglev rail plan for L.A. gets initial OK
By Rick Orlov, Staff Writer
Article Last Updated: 01/30/2008 10:30:07 PM PST


A massive plan to accelerate transportation in the region with a $26 billion high-speed train system received initial approval from the Los Angeles City Council on Wednesday as it created a joint-powers agreement with neighboring cities.

The move marked the first step in negotiations to solidify an Atlanta-based firm's proposal to construct a magnetic-levitation train system that would start at the ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach, run through downtown and eventually reach Ontario Airport.

Los Angeles City Councilman Greig Smith said American Maglev Technology would foot the bill for the system and has been working with the Southern California Association of Governments on its proposal.

SCAG is prohibited from working on construction projects and asked Los Angeles to form the joint-powers authority with West Covina and Ontario.

"Our role will be to make sure all the rights-of-way are secured," Smith said. "All the costs are to be paid for by American Maglev and they said they can complete the first spur in three years from the ports to downtown."

The move is the latest to try to ease transit in the region.

The ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach handle roughly 43 percent of the nation's imports and make up the world's fifth-largest port complex, handling some $300 billion worth of goods in 14 million containers every year.

But more than 16,000 trucks travel through the Los Angeles port every day, clogging


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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the 710 Freeway and other thoroughfares.
Last year, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger proposed a $15 billion Goods Movement Action Plan, with some 200 projects designed to improve transit in California.

The recommended projects include operational changes such as staggering the times for vessel departures and arrivals; expanding the labor force at the ports; and using ships rather than rail and trucks to transport goods between Southern and Northern California.

Infrastructure projects include grade separations along the Alameda Corridor so trains and passenger vehicles do not have to slow down at crossings; widening freeways to the Mexican border; and building truck-only lanes on major trade corridors.

Meanwhile, a $9.95 billion bond measure is set to be on the November ballot to fund initial work on a 700-mile high-speed rail system from Los Angeles to San Francisco.

The first phase of that project would begin in Orange County and run through Los Angeles. The measure requires a simple majority vote, a California High Speed Rail authority spokesman said.

The project the council voted on Wednesday envisions a magnetic-levitation train that is suspended, guided and propelled by electromagnetic force.

While American Maglev is a relatively new company, it has a prototype system in Atlanta. Company officials did not return calls for comment Wednesday.

But Alan Wapner, an Ontario council member and head of the SCAG Transportation Committee, said the project has a long way to go before final approval.

"It hasn't gone under any kind of scrutiny and we aren't sure how valid the proposal is," Wapner said. "American Maglev has proved their technology, but we want to see more on whether it can be done.

"The advantage they have over other firms is they are offering to pay to build the system."

Wapner said the firm originally wanted to be involved only in cargo transportation, but SCAG insisted that it include a passenger component.

"These are things the JPA will look at, but we still have to determine the makeup of that group, who will staff it and how it will operate," Wapner said.

Smith said American Maglev is hoping to recoup its cost primarily through the transportation of cargo and has plans to extend its north-south line to Barstow, which would allow the city to create a stop at Palmdale International Airport.

City officials are working with airlines to encourage that the Palmdale facility be used for more cargo operations.

"Also, we have heard there is interest by Disneyland to try to get a connection to the line and we have also heard some of the tribes in the desert area are interested in working on this," Smith said.

If the plan moves forward, American Maglev has said it would open a Los Angeles office - it has already formed a local company called EMMI Logistics Solutions Inc. - as a headquarters and would hire 200 people.

Smith said much of the firm's work also is done in Santa Fe Springs, which could lead to additional local hiring.

Smith said company officials believe they can build the system at a cost of $13 million to $16 million a mile - about one-third the cost of other companies.

Councilman Bill Rosendahl, the city's representative on the Southern California Regional Airport Authority, suggested that group also be consulted on the project.

Smith, who is the city's representative to SCAG, said he has been working on the proposal for more than a year as the regional government agency has studied various ways to develop a rail system through the area.

Councilwoman Janice Hahn suggested that the Alameda Corridor Authority be brought into the negotiations.

"I'm not sure this will be built in our lifetime, but maybe, maybe," Hahn said. "This is a very important concept for our region. There is the people aspect to this, but the biggest benefit could be cargo.

"We all know the truck traffic from the port causes congestion and pollution."

[email protected] 213-978-0390
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  #3438  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2008, 6:54 PM
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I don't understand this attitude.
It's a matter of my trying to be realistic. For instance, I'd love to see a proj like parkfifth have a groundbreaking ceremony, & begin actual construction, tomorrow. But cuz of economic factors, I know that's not a realistic thing to hope for. Even the relatively small dimensions of the new federal courthouse bldg haven't prevented that proj from being bogged down by problems with funding, if not politics too----competing elected officials, in other cities, states, having more success in getting $$ for their projs.

These various roadblocks are 10 times bigger for the far bigger, far more $$$ issue of rail transit in LA. And things were made tougher back in the 1990s when voters throughout LA county----inc in transit dependent east LA----voted in favor of a proposition that bans the use of tax monies for subways.
     
     
  #3439  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2008, 6:55 PM
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And things were made tougher back in the 1990s when voters throughout LA county----inc in transit dependent east LA----voted in favor of a proposition that bans the use of tax monies for subways.
How remarkably foolish and childish that decision was.......
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  #3440  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2008, 7:54 PM
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Originally Posted by citywatch View Post
[/b]It's a matter of my trying to be realistic.
I don't think you're being more realistic than anyone else here is. Everyone here knows it takes a mountain of money and about two or three decades before any extension of the red line is open to the public. But there's no sense in delaying the inevitable any further. Thankfully there are guys like Damien Goodmon who are taking a grassroots approach to the topic. Public education is the key to make it happen, just as much as it is funding because eventually we're going to have to ask voters to foot the bill for such massive projects. I wish I could say I do my part to get politicians and voters to get on the transit bandwagon, but I'm not in the business or profession of transportation. I'm just a busy college studnet who works full time. All I can do is tell friends and family about the benefits of public transportation. I got my dad to ride metrolink to his job at the hall of administrations downtown. I'm trying to convince my brother to transfer his job at SBC to their downtown building. I take green/blue line at work and am amazed so many people at my job are at best ambiguously aware that theres a blue line station 2 blocks down the street. I tell them my commute is really convinient and hassle free. I really think it comes down to political will and it wont get done if you sit back and tell yourself you're only being 'realistic'. And I say this as a person with a generally cynical nature
     
     
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