The next GVRD rapid transit line?

[mr.x]

The SeaBus is capable of operating on a 12 minute turnaround (or even 10 minutes with simultaneous loading and unloading). However, at the higher speeds, the wake created disturbs other users of the Burrard Inlet. During overloads they do sometimes operate at the higher speeds.

it's almost like we're scared of doing anything that improves efficiency around here in Vancouver...

[Nutterbug]

Originally Posted by mr.x2

it's almost like we're scared of doing anything that improves efficiency around here in Vancouver...

Here's a precaution. Stop windsurfing and small craft pleasure boating in the Seabus' path.

Surely sealife are smart and quick enough to get the hell out of the way when the thing approaches.

[twoNeurons]

od, fantastic Map. The more I see that Blue line (the red line on this image) to Abbotsford and Chilliwack, the more I think it's makes more and more sense to pursue and run a DMU there. I mean, if nothing else, a train to YXX would be nice.

[cornholio]

Originally Posted by tintinium

HSR that fast needs a minimum turn radius of about 4000m.

(A Circle with an over 24km circumference)

It's also nowhere NEAR practical... unless Chilliwack were the size of Vancouver and Vancouver the size of Toronto... and even then...

'twould be a waste to run the train down the TCH. It should run where there are people. There are existing ROWs that run where the people are. Also, a park n' ride on the TCH would be useless as much of line-ups people have are just getting TO the freeway. It's insane.

Further away from the highway would be MUCH better. Give those without ready access to the TCH an alternative.

PS: Forgot that they names the Mark II "Fat Albert" Thx for the article, od.

With tilting train technology for a train traveling at 200km an hour you only need 2000m, and not even that in some cases. But yeah the acceleration and deccelaration is a problem since a top speed of 200km an hour would mean you would only hit it for around 5-10 or so km on a 20km stretch between the stations. Use maglev and the problem is solved...though thats not going to happen. But it would surely get people out of their cars when you can get from Surrey to say Broadway in 5-10min and then hop on a skytrain extension to hit your final destination.

[DubbleD]

Map with routes:



Network map:



Blue Line = Skytrain Expo Line, with extension south to Newton/72nd ave, and SE through Guildford to Fleetwood

Yellow Line - Skytrain Millennium Line, with extension west along Broadway/10th ave to UBC.

Green Line - Skytrain Evergreen Line, with extension east into PoCo / Burke Mtn.

Black Line - Skytrain Circle Line. Perhaps the most 'fantasy' of all these lines. Route uses East Hastings, traveling down Douglas from Boundary Rd to Brentwood, connecting Brentwood with Metrotown (and BCIT along the way), then west along 41st Ave all the way out to UBC. From UBC, travel along Broadway/10th ave (Millennium line extension) to Macdonald, then traveling through kits, with stations at Kits Beach and English Bay Beach (with tunnel under English Bay), traveling up Denman w/ Station at Denman/Georgia for Stanley Park. Both these West End stations would help capture the very dense population... then traveling through Coal Harbour back to Waterfront.

Red Line - Canada Line, with extension south to Francis Road

Purple Line - LRT line using existing right-of-way through North Delta, Surrey, connecting with Expo Line in Newton, continuing east to Cloverdale, Langley, north along 200th to Walnut Grove and then east to Fort Langley.

Orange Line - LRT line, vast majority using existing ROW through Arbutus Corridor and along north side of Fraser River. Spur to Guildford built along with twinning of Port Mann bridge connecting there to Expo Line spur. From approx Granville Island, bridge crossing False Creek (adjacent to Burrard St Bridge) then going into a tunnel under Burrard Street, continuing under Burrard Inlet to North Shore. Two spur lines - one up Lonsdale, and the other west along Marine Dr to Park Royal, Ambleside and Dundarave.

West Coast Express can easily be extended south from Mission to Abbotsford, and also Eastward (just across the river from Mission) out to Chilliwack.

[Pinion]

Originally Posted by Rusty Gull

I like the Seabus. I don't know about it being too slow. The ride between the North Shore and downtown Vancouver is only 12 minutes -- which is much faster than driving a car over the Lions Gate Bridge during rush hour.

I know for a fact that the boats themselves are capable of travelling much faster, but they don't because of the wake they create.

What the North Shore needs is better transit connections -within- the North Shore, especially up and down the Lonsdale corridor between Lonsdale Quay and West Vancouver.

Yeah the speed of the boats themselves is not horrible, but sailing every 30 minutes after 6:30pm is unreasonable. Not everyone works 9-5. It takes me an hour and 15 minutes to get from False Creek to Lower Lonsdale after work at midnight and the Seabus is full.

I can't believe they're not seriously considering bringing the street car back to Lonsdale. That would be tourism gold. This talk about having it run east-west because it's cheaper is absurd (not that that'll ever happen either).

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by DubbleD

Map with routes:

Black Line - Skytrain Circle Line.

Red Line - Canada Line, with extension south to Francis Road

Purple Line - ..... north along 200th to Walnut Grove and then east to Fort Langley.

Orange Line - .....continuing under Burrard Inlet to North Shore. Two spur lines - one up Lonsdale, and the other west along Marine Dr to Park Royal, Ambleside and Dundarave.

Yeah the Black Line is definitely way out there.
Red Line - I could see a streetcar or LRT network evolve in Richmond based on the former InterUrban ROW down Railway Avenue and over to the Canada Line (on Gilbert?).
Purple Line - either that or on to Abbotsford.
Orange Line - I could see the Expo Line head to the north shore looping through East Hastings and covering more of the North Vancouver waterfront areas (Park & Tilford). Apparently frequent freight usage on the line south of Marine Drive currently prevents use for a DMU service, but it is eventually planned to be implemented (the East Fraserlands plan accommodates it and it would serve the GlenLyon Business Park very well - maybe even Big Bend).

[DubbleD]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Yeah the Black Line is definitely way out there.
Red Line - I could see a streetcar or LRT network evolve in Richmond based on the former InterUrban ROW down Railway Avenue and over to the Canada Line (on Gilbert?).
Purple Line - either that or on to Abbotsford.
Orange Line - I could see the Expo Line head to the north shore looping through East Hastings and covering more of the North Vancouver waterfront areas (Park & Tilford). Apparently frequent freight usage on the line south of Marine Drive currently prevents use for a DMU service, but it is eventually planned to be implemented (the East Fraserlands plan accommodates it and it would serve the GlenLyon Business Park very well - maybe even Big Bend).

Definitly like the Richmond ROW down Railway to Steveston.

For Marine Drive, the fact that the ROW exists would still make it easier to build a line, even it at parts it were elevated above the existing freight lines where necessary. I'm not a particular fan of DMU and would see it as LRT that could then continue in the 'boulevard' in the Arbutus Corrdidor (possibly tunneling through the kill between Kerrisdale and King Edward to avoid all those NIMBY's for literally having a train in their backyard). And personally, I think that removing the SeaBus from that route and using a train under Burrard Inlet would likely great increase transit use from North Shore, cutting the relatively lengthy SeaBus travel time down to 2-3 minutes, with more frequent service. SeaBus could then be re-allocated perhaps to a Lonsdale-PortMoody Route? Or even Kits-Ambleside?

[officedweller]

The main reason that DMU is talked about for the Marine Drive line is because it was examined by Translink in the context of the Coquitlam corridors study (NE vs SE). One of the options for the SE route would have been DMU (extending further west to Cambie).

Here's the Translink Report prepared for the Northeast Sector Corridor (Evergreen Line) analysis:
http://www.translink.bc.ca/files/pdf/pla...theast_sector/final_technical_report.pdf

http://www.translink.bc.ca/EvergreenLine/project_reports.asp

[deasine]

I would prefer LRT over DMU too.

[mr.x]

i like both DMU and LRT....however, the advantage with LRT is that it can be a continuation of the Arbutus line. They'd never allow DMU on Arbutus.

[spitkicker08]

i have a question about the evergreen line alignment.
if it is skytrain, will it follow the millennium like all the way to ubc? if it does, it makes the millennium like kind of not there, if you know what i mean. the only stations it would serve on its own is from columbia to lougheed.
what about diverting it at a certain point to travel down hastings and meet the expo line at waterfront?

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by spitkicker08

i have a question about the evergreen line alignment.
if it is skytrain, will it follow the millennium like all the way to ubc? if it does, it makes the millennium like kind of not there, if you know what i mean. the only stations it would serve on its own is from columbia to lougheed.
what about diverting it at a certain point to travel down hastings and meet the expo line at waterfront?

Yes, the Evergreen Line will likely begin at UBC if it is SkyTrain.....just like how the Millennium Line today begins at Waterfront.

A Hastings rapid transit rail line is decades away...

[spitkicker08]

i don't really like that either. i think the millennium like should begin at columbia. when the ubc extension is finished, the millennium like would be even more confusing for people.

[deasine]

Well I guess the solution to that: we can have the line from UBC to Coquitlam the M-Line and the Evergreen Line from Waterfront to Coquitlam via Columbia and Lougheed Town Center. That complex track configuration switch south of Lougheed station allows us to do this. I guess that's the only good I see from the track configuration vs. flyover as there is more flexibility.

Some new signs and "M-Line stickers" will be needed to be changed at Braid and Sapperton as well as new signage with all stations (especially transfer stations).

Moreover, this new network uses less transfers for people from South of Fraser to Coquitlam Central. For instance, a commuter from King George takes SkyTrain to Columbia and only needs to make a transfer to the Evergreen Line.

And this was the original rapid transit plan. I wonder if that's the reason they decided with the track switch configuration instead of a flyover.

[Rusty Gull]

Originally Posted by Pinion

Yeah the speed of the boats themselves is not horrible, but sailing every 30 minutes after 6:30pm is unreasonable. Not everyone works 9-5. It takes me an hour and 15 minutes to get from False Creek to Lower Lonsdale after work at midnight and the Seabus is full.

I can't believe they're not seriously considering bringing the street car back to Lonsdale. That would be tourism gold. This talk about having it run east-west because it's cheaper is absurd (not that that'll ever happen either).

Agreed that the 30 minute wait is unreasonable. I'm assuming the addition of a third seabus in 2009 will fix this situation.

As for the streetcar, North Vancouver did look into one running up and down Lonsdale, but deemed it too expensive based on forecasted ridership. Also, the grade between the waterfront and 13th is too steep. (not that it stops San Francisco).

You're right, though, an east-west streetcar in North Vancouver would be a relative waste compared to one that ran along the high-density Lonsdale corridor.

[SFUVancouver]

I would like the name of the Production Way-University station to change to SFU-Production Way. The 99 B-Line doesn't go to "University" afterall. An opportunity exists when Translink changes of all of the signage to reflect the new 95 B-Line and, of course, when the Canada Line is finished.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by deasine

Well I guess the solution to that: we can have the line from UBC to Coquitlam the M-Line and the Evergreen Line from Waterfront to Coquitlam via Columbia and Lougheed Town Center. That complex track configuration switch south of Lougheed station allows us to do this. I guess that's the only good I see from the track configuration vs. flyover as there is more flexibility.

....

Moreover, this new network uses less transfers for people from South of Fraser to Coquitlam Central. For instance, a commuter from King George takes SkyTrain to Columbia and only needs to make a transfer to the Evergreen Line.

And this was the original rapid transit plan. I wonder if that's the reason they decided with the track switch configuration instead of a flyover.

The current track configuration doesn't easily allow for a Columbia to Coquitlam routing - a train would have to reverse at Lougheed. I'm not sure if they would do that (although you are correct that the third track allows a reversal without interfering too much with through trains.
The original plan for the Lougheed Station had the fork of the wye facing south (rather than facing east, as-built). A south-facing wye would have easily allowed through trains from Coquitlam to access either UBC or Columbia and would have served the LRSP goal of suburb-to-suburb (town centre-to-town centre) commuting. Unfortunately, that was changed at some point in the M-Line's construction (probably when the station was moved from adjacent to Lougheed Mall to an allignment along Lougheed Highway).

Here's a Skytrain Special Commission Connectivity Study dating from when Lougheed Station was oriented north-south and the wye faced south:

http://www.eao.gov.bc.ca/epic/output/doc...769_c5027bb0559140c8bc0acfed4615db00.pdf

[deasine]

Tha report has horrible diagrams. The ones we came up with in previous discussions made more sense. I need to see those pictures again HAHA. This discussion always surfaces back up to the top. =P

With the M-Line UBC-Coquitlam Central and Ev-Line Coquitlam Central-Waterfront option, this is what we can see at Lougheed Station with train reversial:
Let P1 be the platform not used.
Let P2 be the platform that is going to VCC/Clark currently.
Let P3 be the platform that is going to Columbia currently.

M-Line Trains to UBC use P1.
M-Line Trains to Coquitlam Central use P2.
Ev-Line Trains to UBC use P2.
Ev-Line Trains to Coquitlam use P3.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by deasine

Tha report has horrible diagrams.

The "as-built" is NOT the same as the report's diagrams. The report's design was changed to what we have now.