The Official Saint John, NB Project Thread

[Seely32]

I would be extremely pissed if thi building is scaled down to 3 or 4 stories. What a waste of a prime location that would be.

[kwajo]

I'm actually happy about this. I hated the "Racino" idea.

Ditto.


As for Rocca's development, I want a 7-storey building Uptown dammit! Stop opposing it! You're worried about the sight lines coming down Queen Street? Who in the South End cares about sight lines, not to mention the fact it's not exactly prime tourist area down there either.

The city made a statement last fall that they want to increase density in the Uptown - well the only way to do that is to start allowing for taller residential developments....
Just let him build it, if only because it's a hell of an improvement over the building that's standing there vacant now (which is nearly as tall already ).

[phishy]

Originally Posted by kwajo

You're worried about the sight lines coming down Queen Street? Who in the South End cares about sight lines, not to mention the fact it's not exactly prime tourist area down there either.

The city made a statement last fall that they want to increase density in the Uptown - well the only way to do that is to start allowing for taller residential developments....
Just let him build it, if only because it's a hell of an improvement over the building that's standing there vacant now (which is nearly as tall already ).

To answer you questions - I live in the South End, right in the block where they are talking about losing sightlines, and I care very much about the sightlines. That being said, I am all in favour of Rocca's buildings. He was very upfront with residents who will be affected, and I think the changes he made to the building are great. If it blocks the sightlines on Queen I can live with it, but if he can adjust somehow to leave the sightlines open that would be great. Remember this is near the end of the development in the SE peninsula now, but once they begin to develop from St. James out to where the sugar refinery is, it will be more in the middle, and have more traffic and benefit from a nice waterview sightline.

The waterfront plan is excellent, and calls for reasonable sightlines to the water down the major streets, Queen included. Rocca is willing to work with the community to adjust plans and that will ensure this project goes ahead. He has been in the business long enough and knows what pushback to expect. Do you think he would have gone ahead and bought the land if there wasn't a chance he was going to build.

Obvisouly the uilding will get build and the size will be what is proposed. There is always public opposition to change, and that is certainly not unique to Saint John, so to state he should go to somewhere with less resistance is foolish. It is important to take a reasonable amount of time to do things correctly instead of throwing garbage up very quickly, which looks horrible. We want a beautiful peninsula uptown from end to end, and taking the time to make it right makes all the difference. If you just slap things together quickly and cheaply you get an ugly, generic, soul-less giant suburb like Moncton and area has become.

At least we have a good problem - we have so much development going on that there is extra interest in doing it right and making it a good addition to the City. That is way better than complete indifference.

[kwajo]

Originally Posted by phishy

To answer you questions - I live in the South End, right in the block where they are talking about losing sightlines, and I care very much about the sightlines. That being said, I am all in favour of Rocca's buildings. He was very upfront with residents who will be affected, and I think the changes he made to the building are great. If it blocks the sightlines on Queen I can live with it, but if he can adjust somehow to leave the sightlines open that would be great. Remember this is near the end of the development in the SE peninsula now, but once they begin to develop from St. James out to where the sugar refinery is, it will be more in the middle, and have more traffic and benefit from a nice waterview sightline.

Yeah I guess when I said "who in the South End cares about sight lines?" I mean that for me personally, when I lived Uptown, having a direct view of the harbour wasn't an issue because Saint John's main peninsula is so small that waterfront access is always only a minute's walk away, and easily accessible. I maybe not have had a harbour view, but I never felt isolated from it at all, in fact I felt very very close to it. I supposed if someone had paid a certain amount for property thinking it would have a harbour view, then it would be a concern if that was taken away, but for me it isn't much of an issue.

It is important to take a reasonable amount of time to do things correctly instead of throwing garbage up very quickly, which looks horrible. We want a beautiful peninsula uptown from end to end, and taking the time to make it right makes all the difference. If you just slap things together quickly and cheaply you get an ugly, generic, soul-less giant suburb like Moncton and area has become.

Absolutely, and if this was in reply to my tone of just wanting it approved speedily, that was said with the idea that the proposal is already well thought out in mind. Rocca isn't the best developer ever, but this plan is solid and the proposed building is far from trash, and I think it would be a fine addition to Uptown, both architecturally, and for the impact of bringing more residents to the city core.

[brod3211]

Originally Posted by phishy

If you just slap things together quickly and cheaply you get an ugly, generic, soul-less giant suburb like Moncton and area has become.

Not to sound weird but at one point in time you have to realize that every city looks like that. Moncton lost quite a few buildings in a Natural gas explosion back in the early 1900's but yeah ever city is going to start of ugly and suburb like you need people before you can start building fance buildings.... and Soul-less that makes no sense what do you mean by that if you mean bars .... there are many bars in the city and if your talking about sporting and things to do there are many things to do that make the city soul full we have events happening all the time like the upcoming university hockey championships , 2009 world mens curling championships and 2010 iiaf junior track and feild championships..... plus huge concerts every summer. I being from moncton will admit there are some ugly looks about it but just it time one day they will have more defined downtown. Also thats a harsh comment to use seeing as how you yourself could end up here looking for a job one day. Anyways theres nothing Soul-less about moncton and area. The answer is that it takes time to make a city beautiful and seeing as how Saint John has been the city of New Brunswick for so long they of course will have a nice Downtown and i give them props for that but just give Moncton time and they will get themselves a nice down town and become less suburban.

[michael_d40]

Originally Posted by brod3211

Also thats a harsh comment to use seeing as how you yourself could end up here looking for a job one

haha I would rather die. So i can assure you i for one will not be taking any jobs in moncton, now or ever.

[michael_d40]

Originally Posted by brod3211

Not to sound weird but at one point in time you have to realize that every city looks like that. Moncton lost quite a few buildings in a Natural gas explosion back in the early 1900's but yeah ever city is going to start of ugly and suburb like you need people before you can start building fance buildings.... and Soul-less that makes no sense what do you mean by that if you mean bars .... there are many bars in the city and if your talking about sporting and things to do there are many things to do that make the city soul full we have events happening all the time like the upcoming university hockey championships , 2009 world mens curling championships and 2010 iiaf junior track and feild championships..... plus huge concerts every summer. I being from moncton will admit there are some ugly looks about it but just it time one day they will have more defined downtown. Also thats a harsh comment to use seeing as how you yourself could end up here looking for a job one day. Anyways theres nothing Soul-less about moncton and area. The answer is that it takes time to make a city beautiful and seeing as how Saint John has been the city of New Brunswick for so long they of course will have a nice Downtown and i give them props for that but just give Moncton time and they will get themselves a nice down town and become less suburban.

I just think you have a hard time realizing that just because, Moncton might be raved up where you are and is the centre of attention. We here in Saint John just dont think that Moncton is. Are you having a hard time grasping that people actually prefer Saint John now? If you are, then maybe spying on the SJ thread isnt a good idea for you.

[michael_d40]

Originally Posted by kwajo

Yeah I guess when I said "who in the South End cares about sight lines?" I mean that for me personally, when I lived Uptown, having a direct view of the harbour wasn't an issue because Saint John's main peninsula is so small that waterfront access is always only a minute's walk away, and easily accessible. I maybe not have had a harbour view, but I never felt isolated from it at all, in fact I felt very very close to it. I supposed if someone had paid a certain amount for property thinking it would have a harbour view, then it would be a concern if that was taken away, but for me it isn't much of an issue.



Absolutely, and if this was in reply to my tone of just wanting it approved speedily, that was said with the idea that the proposal is already well thought out in mind. Rocca isn't the best developer ever, but this plan is solid and the proposed building is far from trash, and I think it would be a fine addition to Uptown, both architecturally, and for the impact of bringing more residents to the city core.

I would have to agree with you on the sight line issue. I live uptown as well, and i currently have a view of the water from my living room. I must say if a big development was to go up in my view. I wouldnt really have much to say because as Kwajo pointed out, we are surrounded by the water, and its not more than a minute or two walk away

[brod3211]

haha i dont think your wanted here anyway haha just kidding but yeah umm.... you never know you have to go were you can find work i mean if you have a secured job then congrats but like you go where the work is hahaha anyways im tired of argueing i was putting my last statement as a point to say that give people time on designing and making a city better... theres to much bickering ... i dont want to be part of it i just end up getting into because some people like to start stuff.... Saint John is a beautiful place and so is moncton and we arent that different from each other and as soon as people get that throught there heads then we are good.

[ErickMontreal]

Originally Posted by michael_d40

Are you having a hard time grasping that people actually prefer Saint John now?

You should do a poll on that around the province , you could be quite surprised !

[brod3211]

Originally Posted by michael_d40

I just think you have a hard time realizing that just because, Moncton might be raved up where you are and is the centre of attention. We here in Saint John just dont think that Moncton is. Are you having a hard time grasping that people actually prefer Saint John now?

WHO are these people ? haha and i think you go that wrong because people here barely talk about whats being built and barely talk about how many people live here most people here just live there lives like normal.... Back to the idea of who are the people people have not been perfering Saint John over the past i dont no how many years ive seen graphs and the population of Saint John city has been dropping every year since the 80's and the Whole SJ cma has dropped also id like you to get it throught your head that people dont like either city and thats why they are moving to Halifax , toronto and out west so really neither city has anything to brag about and when i see people moving to SJ to do something other than work at an oil refinary then ill say that SJ is that NB city breaking lose but as for now people are moving to moncton to do work in every area not just to work for Oil refinerys or pulp mills that smell like shit Also im not spying im looking at the building which are very nice and will look great in SJ's uptown .

[kwajo]

people dont like either city and thats why they are moving to Halifax , toronto and out west so really neither city has anything to brag about

I disagree, People love both cities but feel there aren't enough opportunities for themselves here. That's precisely why we all need to concentrate on developing economic opportunities across New Brunswick [and the Maritimes], while also maintaining our unique character and heritage.

I know dozens of young people my age who have moved to Alberta from Saint John. Do they dislike the city? By no means. In fact, I know that the majority love SJ and would like nothing better than to move back and raise a family here. They love the natural landscapes, they love the low cost of living, they love feeling safe, they love the sense of community, they love a ton of things about the city. So why don't they still live here? That's the issue we need to address.

[brod3211]

well when i said that i didnt mean that they didnt like it here just that like you said are leaving the area to go for more oppurtunity

[ErickMontreal]

Originally Posted by kwajo

I they love the sense of community, they love a ton of things about the city. So why don't they still live here? That's the issue we need to address.

I suppose they did not find paying jobs or jobs in their field of study.

[michael_d40]

Originally Posted by brod3211

WHO are these people ? haha and i think you go that wrong because people here barely talk about whats being built and barely talk about how many people live here most people here just live there lives like normal.... Back to the idea of who are the people people have not been perfering Saint John over the past i dont no how many years ive seen graphs and the population of Saint John city has been dropping every year since the 80's and the Whole SJ cma has dropped also id like you to get it throught your head that people dont like either city and thats why they are moving to Halifax , toronto and out west so really neither city has anything to brag about and when i see people moving to SJ to do something other than work at an oil refinary then ill say that SJ is that NB city breaking lose but as for now people are moving to moncton to do work in every area not just to work for Oil refinerys or pulp mills that smell like shit Also im not spying im looking at the building which are very nice and will look great in SJ's uptown .

Just a heads up to you. Im not from SJ... as my signature states, I moved here in 2003, for school, and stayed for work.
Where am i from you ask?
Born in... MONTREAL... School in HALIFAX....
Now in SAINT JOHN..... to stay.
Heres the kicker, 5 other of my friends moved from Halifax to Saint John as well for work. So Brod, u gotta get ur head out of your ass,

[brod3211]

Hahahaha where do you work and where do they work? ... how old are you ? and well i can't say much to that other than Congrat SJ 1 guy moved to your city from Montreal in 2003 woo thats 4 years ago and then 5 more people congrats on that too your population has dropped by 500-1000 then you got 6 people !! when you start seeing the population percentage above 0 instead of below then act like an adult and talk to me I told you already I don't care about this bickering and i didnt want to get into but because you have the mind of a 13 year old and dont understand that SJ doesnt care about 6 people you are all worthless to them now if you were 200 people that might be different. You came for school and stayed for work why is that maybe because well you went to UNBSJ a crappy break off of UNB Fredericton... and thats why your still here because you wnet to a crappy uni... then couldnt pay for anything else so you were stuck there because you couldnt afford to move.

[kwajo]

Originally Posted by brod3211

Hahahaha where do you work and where do they work? ... how old are you ? and well i can't say much to that other than Congrat SJ 1 guy moved to your city from Montreal in 2003 woo thats 4 years ago and then 5 more people congrats on that too your population has dropped by 500-1000 then you got 6 people !! when you start seeing the population percentage above 0 instead of below then act like an adult and talk to me I told you already I don't care about this bickering and i didnt want to get into but because you have the mind of a 13 year old and dont understand that SJ doesnt care about 6 people you are all worthless to them now if you were 200 people that might be different.

I'd bet good money on Saint John's population growing from the 2006 census to the next one. All indicators show that the city is experiencing growth, the slump is over IMO.

Seriously though, this Moncton/Saint John stuff is stupid, we need to put it on the shelf for a while.

[michael_d40]

Originally Posted by brod3211

Hahahaha where do you work and where do they work? ... how old are you ? and well i can't say much to that other than Congrat SJ 1 guy moved to your city from Montreal in 2003 woo thats 4 years ago and then 5 more people congrats on that too your population has dropped by 500-1000 then you got 6 people !! when you start seeing the population percentage above 0 instead of below then act like an adult and talk to me I told you already I don't care about this bickering and i didnt want to get into but because you have the mind of a 13 year old and dont understand that SJ doesnt care about 6 people you are all worthless to them now if you were 200 people that might be different.

Where do I work?
Xerox @ Knowledge Park and I'm 25. Not that its really any of your business.
You continuously state you don't care about this bickering. But then you counteract it with more lame statements with bad grammar and punctuation. Therefore you do care. As well, I do believe you made yourself out to be a liar who doesn't have two clues what hes going on about, but are just ranting because you have nothing constructive to do with your spare time.
May I suggest a English curriculum for you? That would keep you busy for sure.

[michael_d40]

Originally Posted by kwajo

I'd bet good money on Saint John's population growing from the 2006 census to the next one. All indicators show that the city is experiencing growth, the slump is over IMO.

For sure. I cant wait. Then all these Moncton thumpers can go back in hiding. Its just becoming ridiculous.

[phishy]

OK, my point wasn't to rile up the Moncton vs Saint John debate again, and I am sorry that happened. In passing, I would never live or work in Moncton. I have spent lots of time in Moncton and I don't enjoy the lack of downtown, the drab cookie cutter suburbs and boring suburban lifestyle. Of course this is not just Moncton and many cities, but that is why I don't choose to live in the KV or similar spots. The downtown of Saint John is amazingly unique and a wonderful place to live and work. It has so much soul and character that you can't get anywhere else. Moncton is just a suburban sprawl that you could find in countless other Ontario communities. Not unique or very interesting, in my opinion.

There are also LOTS of employment opportunities for the correctly trained worker here. Just because you're born somewhere does not entitle you to a job in the same place. If you are unwilling to learn and adapt to the changing environment you can't complain and expect government handouts, etc.

My whole point (and I think I do have one!!) is that I am in favour of the Rocca development, and I from my interactions with him I trust he will alter his design and do a good job. He is already 500k into the design, and another 500k into the property, so he will build something very nice that will enhance that area of town. At least it is so much better than a plain parking garage, or the ugly parking lot there now, and of course infinitely better than the gigantic grain elevator previously on the site. People complaining about sightlines should keep that in mind! ha ha