The Official Saint John, NB Project Thread

[Stanz]

What's with the Moncton forumers raging inferiority complex?

[michael_d40]

Originally Posted by Stanzmastertron3000

What's with the Moncton forumers raging inferiority complex?

I know eh, Its right hurtin,

[Phantomtib]

When I was in Saint John, I didnt see much in terms of night life... Did I miss an area or bar that everyone goes to? Are there any bars/clubs (stippers too)/ dancehalls thats popular in Saint john? where do all the young people go at night (where do university kids go to party??)

[SJTOKO]

Originally Posted by Phantomtib

When I was in Saint John, I didnt see much in terms of night life... Did I miss an area or bar that everyone goes to? Are there any bars/clubs (stippers too)/ dancehalls thats popular in Saint john? where do all the young people go at night (where do university kids go to party??)

Asian students don't party, they study, trust me I know. Not that there's anything wrong with that. There are lots of good bars uptown. I used to go to Happinez (wine bar) and O'Leary's, i'm not into the dance club thing that much...i'm toooooo old for that..

[PostModernPrometheus]

Hmmm..I havent done much of the bar seen since my postgrad days

the bar scene is scattered around, but there's a niche for everyone....i like happinez myself..nice quiet atmosphere, great selection of wines...can trot across the street to Sebastian's martini bar after.....
i heard there's a strip club somewhere on sydney street (? Blush is the name??)..think that's the only one of those around these days...
live music ...probably can't beat O'leary's...though Elwood's around the corner has apparently had some good live music....i havent' been to A'Khord (sp?) but apparently they have a wide range of live entertainment..

[michael_d40]

Originally Posted by Phantomtib

When I was in Saint John, I didnt see much in terms of night life... Did I miss an area or bar that everyone goes to? Are there any bars/clubs (stippers too)/ dancehalls thats popular in Saint john? where do all the young people go at night (where do university kids go to party??)

Well, the popular ones in the uptown area alone are Ozone on King St (18-30) Which is where i party it up at. Studio 54 on Sydney St (25-50), Cougars at Market Square(19-40) Olearys on Princess Street (19-40) Theres also Elwoods on Prince William St Or for Jazz Music theres Melvins on Canterbury and for people who are hard up they can go to the strip club @ Club Blush
Just to name a few...

[Phantomtib]

Originally Posted by SJTOKO

Asian students don't party, they study, trust me I know. Not that there's anything wrong with that. There are lots of good bars uptown. I used to go to Happinez (wine bar) and O'Leary's, i'm not into the dance club thing that much...i'm toooooo old for that..

haha thats true, you can usually find the asians in the library's.

[kwajo]

Originally Posted by Phantomtib

When I was in Saint John, I didnt see much in terms of night life... Did I miss an area or bar that everyone goes to? Are there any bars/clubs (stippers too)/ dancehalls thats popular in Saint john? where do all the young people go at night (where do university kids go to party??)

I feel Saint John has a very good night life these days, at least as good as anything in Atlantic Canada outside of St. John's or Halifax.

Moncton's seems alright too, but I was never overwhelmed by it (I do love St. James' Gate though)

[Wishblade]

Originally Posted by kwajo

I feel Saint John has a very good night life these days, at least as good as anything in Atlantic Canada outside of St. John's or maybe Halifax.

Moncton's seems alright too, but I was never overwhelmed by it (I do love St. James' Gate though)

Yeah, IMO, as far as nightlife goes nothing in the Atlantic Provinces can compare to St. John's or Halifax, but I would put Saint John at a distant third.

[Seely32]

There is also everyone one's favorite the 3 mile,Aquarius and Kacey's. lol

I enjoy sebastians nothing like an irish coffee or martini to finish off the day.

For night life Princess st. Is usually packed around friday or saturday with O'leary's, Sebastians, and Happinez right across the street and callahan's down a block. Then there is mexi's and elwoods on prince william, and melvin's and thandi which is a good afterwork bar on canturbury.

Also during the day we do have some great lunchonettes.
The infusion my favorite place to eat in the city.
Nougatine and chocolat which has good food but I very much dislike the owner.
Opera Bistro
And the best Thai food in the city at Thai hut.

[michael_d40]

Originally Posted by Seely32

There is also everyone one's favorite the 3 mile.

Actually the new favorite is Ozone uptown. Uptown is the place to be on the weekends now,
its awesome

[michael_d40]

duplicate

[Seely32]

Originally Posted by michael_d40

Actually the new favorite is Ozone uptown. Uptown is the place to be on the weekends now,
its awesome

i was being a bit sarcastic 3mile is a hell hole

[SJTOKO]

Local group left without partner
Gambling Quebec company drops out of casino bidding process

Telegraph-Journal
Published Tuesday January 22nd, 2008
Appeared on page C1

SAINT JOHN - The one-time front-runner in the race to acquire the province's first casino licence has abandoned its efforts, leaving its Saint John partner scrambling to put together a new proposal.

Attractions Hippiques, which operates four racetracks in the province of Quebec, recently informed the Exhibition Association of the City and County of Saint John that it has dropped out of the bidding process and will not be submitting a proposal to the province before the March 11 deadline.

Attractions Hippiques and the exhibition association held a news conference in early November to announce plans for a multi-million development that included a new racetrack and grandstand at the current site of Exhibition Park Raceway on the city's east side. The project was also to include indoor and outdoor soccer fields, a first-class restaurant and the potential for an arena with multiple ice surfaces.

Six days later, the provincial government released its long-awaited gaming strategy - a document that made only passing reference to harness racing.

The Quebec firm paid the $5,000 non-refundable fee to become a registered party and subsequently held discussions with government officials, eventually concluding its plans weren't compatible with what the government is seeking.

"We have lost an opportunity with a very viable partner and a partner with loads of experience in harness racing," said Willard Jenkins, president of the exhibition association. "They've just made a $56-million investment in a new state-of-the-art facility in Quebec City that is just world-class. From the racing industry point of view, it's just a shame.

"If circumstances were different, they'd still be interested," said Jenkins. "They went above and beyond, no question."

Jenkins said the Quebec company - owned by Liberal Senator Paul Massicotte - had all the ingredients his group was looking for. It is an experienced, reputable company with a good track record. In 2005, Attractions Hippiques was the winning bidder among five proposals to take over ownership and management of the Quebec tracks. As part of its plan to revitalize harness racing in Quebec, the company committed to investments of about $280 million to ensure the long-term survival and growth of the industry. That figure includes $100 million in infrastructure improvements, including the relocation of the Montreal track once known as Blue Bonnets and $5 million per year to promotion and marketing of harness racing.

"There were discussions with other parties to see if they were interested right around the same time we contacted Attractions Hippiques," said Jenkins. "Quite frankly, the people who were interested from the point of view of a casino were not very interested in talking to anybody who wanted to talk about funnelling some of that profit into supporting harness racing.

"When we settled on Attractions Hippiques, they were the perfect partner for us because we both had the same interests in mind. From then on, we didn't talk to anybody else, nor were we approached by anybody else."

Now, though, Jenkins says the search for a new partner is already underway and his group is aware of companies that have been inquiring about the Saint John market and the potential for reviving harness racing.

"Attractions Hippiques finally came to the conclusion that under the current policy they would not be going forward and that if we wished, we should move forward and try to find somebody else," said Jenkins. "We had some indication just recently that there may be a couple of people who may want to speak to us. I can't confirm that, but I've been given that indication.

"If there is someone out there who wants to enhance their casino proposal by adding a racetrack component, we'd certainly be interested. There's been some contact made - we'll see. It depends on how much (other groups) want to enhance their own proposal."

Jenkins says the exhibition association will do all it can in the coming weeks to find a new partner.

"We want to do absolutely everything we can do to try to support racing," he said. "We're hopeful that there's somebody out there with the same vision that we have. If not, we'll have to cross that bridge when we come to it. That's about all I can say at this point."

[SJTOKO]

I'm actually happy about this. I hated the "Racino" idea.

[SJTOKO]

Rocca's apartment project runs into opposition
Development Some against current plan but hope building can go ahead; west projects OK

Telegraph-Journal
Published Tuesday January 22nd, 2008
Appeared on page C1
SAINT JOHN - Ross Jefferson found himself in an awkward position Monday night as he addressed common council in opposition to a proposed development along the city's uptown waterfront.

In fact, it was so strange to see the general manager of the Saint John Waterfront Development Partnership speaking against a major project, Coun. Chris Titus interrupted Jefferson to make sure he was actually speaking against. Jefferson wanted to state for the record his group's objection to the proposed construction of an apartment building covering a block between Prince William and Water streets.

It was one of three major projects on council's agenda Monday. The other two - dealing with developments on the west side - received preliminary approval without much discussion. Council passed first and second readings of zoning requests for a proposed major residential development at Fort Dufferin and a retail development on Fairville Boulevard.

The uptown project proposed by John Rocca's Ellerdale Investments - a residential development with more than 100 units along the waterfront - met with opposition because the proposed design would see a seven-storey structure obstruct the view of Saint John Harbour from traffic coming down Queen Street.

The city sold the property - the former grain elevator site - to Ellerdale Investments last month for $450,000.

Jefferson stressed he wants to see the project move ahead, but said his group objected to the loss of the sight line.

"It wasn't easy to be here. We would like to encourage this development to still happen," said Jefferson. He encouraged the approval of the rezoning, while adding a clause to reflect the importance of the public view corridor down Queen Street.

Jefferson noted that he had also begun discussions with Rocca and that he is "quite confident in our ability to find a solution."

Discussions on the proposal continued past presstime.

The waterfront development group wasn't the only local agency to oppose the rezoning around Water Street.

Dick Daigle, president of Uptown Saint John, also expressed concerns about neglect of the inner harbour land use plan.

"We've planned our work. We must now work the plan," said Daigle, who added he was nonetheless very encouraged by the development.

Uptown Saint John proposed moving a green space from the middle of the development to the end, which would allow an open view of the harbour from Queen Street.

Daigle added he hoped to join Jefferson in discussions with Rocca.

Three residents also joined Jefferson and Daigle in opposing parts of the proposal, although everyone agreed in general that the project should proceed.

There were also two neighbourhood residents who spoke in favour of the project.

Rocca began his presentation by reminding council its decision would eventually impact whether the thousands of people who will move to the Saint John area during the boom of the energy hub will reside in uptown Saint John or in the Kennebecasis Valley.

Rocca said initial public reaction to the project in 2005 was negative and that his company listened and modified its proposal, based on the comments from the public.

He said his company has already spent $500,000 and it is ready to proceed with a "world-class" development. He said he's willing to continue discussions on possible compromises and he's confident solutions can be found.

"There's a lot at stake for us, for you (council) and for the community," said Rocca.

Council earlier passed first and second readings on a pair of major developments planned for the west side.

A condominium development that could see as many as 600 units spring up in the Fort Dufferin area on the west side was unanimously endorsed.

Rick Turner of Hughes Surveys & Consultants spoke in favour of the project, which he said could generate as much as $2 million per year in property taxes.

Turner explained that the Toronto developer he was representing planned to build one-, two- and three-bedroom units in three phases on a 20-acre parcel of land.

The Fort Dufferin proposal could see three high-rise buildings, up to 12 storeys tall, built at the coastal end of City Line and next to the Partridge Island breakwater. The 6.72-hectare site could eventually tie into Harbour Passage and water taxis connecting to the uptown and Partridge Island.

Council also passed first and second readings of a proposed zoning change to allow for the development of a retail shopping centre at 917 Fairville Blvd., the current site of the Saint John Transit headquarters. The transit company will be moving to a new home on the east side and Plazacorp Property Holdings Inc. is proposing retail development on the site in a couple of phases - the first of which will be a 47,000-square-foot shopping centre.

It's good news for the west side, where residents have been clamouring for further development. A proposed deal that would have seen Wal-Mart set up shop at the site fell through last year.

Titus said the development will be welcome by west siders.

The city has approved the sale of the Fairville Boulevard property to Plazacorp, which is working toward an agreement with Canadian Tire and Sobeys. One of the conditions in the agreement with Plazacorp is that before April 17, "the retail development ... has been approved by the board of directors of Canadian Tire Corporation and Sobeys Inc."

Plazacorp is buying the combined tracts of land for $2.5 million.

[SJTOKO]

As expected there is opposition. I wish these people would just GET OVER IT. Better prevent the cruise ships from coming into the harbour if your worried about sight lines. When the cruise ships are in they block up EVERYTHING.. Rocca's building looks small.. Man these people are idiots; they won't allow a 9 story building in Germain but complain about what looks looks like a 5 story building on the waterfront..... START BUILDING HIGH RISES IN THE CORE AND YOU WON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT SIGHT LINES!

[SJTOKO]

Nothing in stone
North of Union Council's final decision on project won't come until after hearing from public


Telegraph-Journal
Published Tuesday January 22nd, 2008
Appeared on page C1

SAINT JOHN - At a media briefing in a City Hall boardroom Monday, a television reporter complained to deputy city manager Pat Woods that the room had no TV-ready visuals of the proposed police-justice complex.

Woods pointed over his shoulder at a blank whiteboard and said, "It's a clean slate."

Though he was joking in that instance, 'It's a clean slate' would have been an apt summary of the message sent by Woods and commissioner of planning Jim Baird throughout the news conference about public consultations: They say the city will listen to everything the public has to say about the police-justice complex planned for north of Union Street. Nothing is written in stone about the city's portion of the project, and common council will not make its final decision until it has heard from the people.

"We're interested in all input," said Woods, who unveiled the planned schedule for public consultations into the approximately $100-million project. "There are no restrictions." (Council held its regular meeting Monday, but had not discussed the consultations by press time.)

The project has been a source of controversy since mid-November when Deputy Mayor Michelle Hooton and some members of the community said the city had mishandled its communications with the public.

Hooton had said if the provincial justice building, police headquarters, parking garage, and public green space went too far forward without community input, the public would have little say over the unprecedented development beyond esthetics.

Besides including approximately $100 million in public funds, the future site of the complex (from Hazen Avenue to Wellington Row) includes a number of historic and architecturally precious buildings.

Woods and Baird unveiled the timeline for the consultations.

The key dates are Jan. 30 at 7 p.m. and Feb. 2 at 10 a.m.: These are the two open houses where citizens will be able to get the complete information about the project.

The meetings will include a short introduction by Mike Start of TOSS Solutions Inc., which is co-ordinating the project.

After, there will be breakout areas for questions and feedback, display boards with conceptual drawings, and an area where people can provide written feedback.

Police Chief Al Bodechon, along with Start and Baird, will be on hand to answer questions.

There could be more open houses if demand calls for it, according to the schedule handed out by city staff.

Woods said that a feedback form will be made available to the public at the open houses and on a website that will be created as part of the process.

He provided a sample feedback sheet with five questions to reporters, although he said it could be altered slightly:

1) What questions do you have about development in the area north of Union Street?

2) What opportunities do you see for the development of the area north of Union Street?

3) When you consider an area like this, what are the most important considerations? (What are the things you value most?)

4) What suggestions do you have for the development of the area north of Union Street?

5) What is the best way to reach you?

Woods said the last question was particularly important, because he sees the consultations as a continuous loop between the city and the public.

"It'll be an ongoing conversation," Woods said.

The consultations include a website, a newsletter, open houses, workshops and stakeholder meetings. The costs were planned for within the 2008 capital budget.

The stakeholders that Baird will meet with include the Saint John Arts Centre, the city's Arts Council, heritage groups, neighbouring businesses, and Enterprise Saint John.

Citizens and the media will be filled in on where the proposed project stands by the end of this month.

Andrew Beckett, the other deputy city manager, will be co-ordinating the communications along with MT&L Public Relations.

He said the city believes it has a good-news story to tell.

Mayor Norm McFarlane, who is a member of the police-justice steering committee along with Baird and Woods, spoke briefly at the beginning of the news conference before stepping out.

He urged the media to get as many citizens out to the consultations as possible.

"We need people there and their ideas," he said.

In December, the mayor caused some further controversy when he said that most of the buildings in the police-justice area would come down regardless of what was said during public consultations.

He has since backed off that stand, saying he looks forward to "meaningful" discussions with the public.

Asked whether that change in positions might hurt the public's trust in the city heading into consultations, Woods said the community should at least let the process unfold.

Baird said that the mayor's change in stance should actually do the opposite - showing the public that the city is in fact willing to hear from the community.

It would have been much worse if the mayor had gone from saying the buildings will stand to saying the buildings will fall, he said.

[thefishingnut]

Originally Posted by SJTOKO

I'm actually happy about this. I hated the "Racino" idea.

I second that.

[PersonPlaceorThing]

Originally Posted by SJTOKO

"We've planned our work. We must now work the plan," said Daigle, who added he was nonetheless very encouraged by the development.

The plan was made on a macro scale, and he doesn't expect it to change on when the details get worked out?

These groups expect the work to move forward even though they are opposing it? What if Rocca says, "I'm going to the path of least resistance" and moves to a city where things can happen?