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  #821  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2008, 8:35 PM
whoDean whoDean is offline
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Now I'm hearing KLM and other international airlines are being pulled into talks.
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  #822  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2008, 8:56 PM
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^They're going for NW.
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  #823  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2008, 9:01 PM
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I'm sure union representatives from both NWA and United will have a lot of say in these merger talks too.
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  #824  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2008, 9:02 PM
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US law prohibits Foreign airlines from owning a controlling interest in US airlines, just minority interests. KLM has a huge marketing agreement with NW (not just in SkyTeam)

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  #825  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2008, 9:19 PM
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Air France-KLM plays cupid on the U.S. tarmac
European airline would look kindly on Delta merger with Northwest, not United
MarketWatch
Last update: 10:50 a.m. EST Jan. 17, 2008
LONDON (MarketWatch) -- Air France-KLM is acting as a chaperon, albeit from a distance, to Delta Air Lines Inc.'s efforts to find a suitable mate, and from its European perspective, there's little doubt Northwest Airlines Corp. would make the best match.
Delta has started merger talks with both UAL Corp.'s United Airlines and Northwest Airlines, the Wall Street Journal reported Wednesday. James Oberstar, chairman of the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee, confirmed those talks in an interview.
So why would Air France-KLM , Europe's largest airline, get involved in this all-American business?
As the main European partner of Delta, it has got a lot to lose from the wrong combination.

"The last thing Air France-KLM wants is to see Delta combine with United because it would then risk losing a key partner," said Peter Morris, chief economist of U.K.-based aerospace consultancy Ascend. United is a key ally of European rival Deutsche Lufthansa.
Such a loss would be a huge blow to Air France-KLM, coming as top European airlines scramble to form new alliances to take advantage of the "open-skies" deal between the U.S. and Europe, set to come into force in the spring.
So it's playing cupid -- on the tarmac. And it's rooting for Northwest.
Strong historical ties
So why the preference for Northwest?
For one, there's history. Air France-KLM, Delta and Northwest all belong to the same extended SkyTeam family. Within this commercial alliance, created in 1999, the carriers have learned to code share and, with time, developed deeper ties. KLM and Eagan-Minn-based Northwest go back even further, with a transatlantic partnership dating from before the SkyTeam alliance was born.
Such ties, if anything, are set to grow even tighter with the advent of the "open-skies" pact, which will allow European airlines to fly to any city in the U.S. and vice versa. Everyone wants to strike a deal and be positioned to benefit from the change.
So far, Air France-KLM and Delta have made the biggest commitment, with plans for a transatlantic joint venture that'll see them share costs and revenue on transatlantic routes.
And in late November they said they hope by 2010 to start a "four-way joint venture" with -- surprise -- Northwest. The carriers have already applied for antitrust immunity from U.S. and European regulators so they can coordinate marketing and pricing.
Delta's other love interest, United, boasts a less appealing heritage. Its main flaw, in the eyes of Air France-KLM, is that it belongs to the rival Star Alliance clan, home to European competitor Deutsche Lufthansa.
United is Lufthansa's heavyweight counterpart in the U.S. Should Delta and United merge, the relationship with Air France-KLM would likely unravel.
"There is no doubt that the deal that closes the circle most nicely for Air France-KLM would be a Delta deal with Northwest," Morris said.
A Delta exec in Paris
So Air France-KLM is taking preventive action.
According to a Wall Street Journal report published on Thursday, Delta Chief Executive Richard Anderson traveled to Paris after his meeting with the board last Friday, suggesting Air France-KLM is playing some part in the merger talks.
The airline could offer strategic or financial backing in a Delta bid for Northwest, in exchange for a sizeable stake in the combined carrier, the Journal reported, citing people familiar with the thinking of Air France-KLM's management team.
Without a doubt, the European airline, which boasted 6.2 billion euros in disposable cash as of late September, has plenty of the liquidity U.S. carriers are lacking.
But some industry observers questioned the wisdom of investing in a U.S. carrier at a time when the North American market is ailing.
"I've never understood why European airlines would want to burn money in front of their eyes by pouring it into a market where a lot of problems still exist," said Ascend's Morris.
He said the U.S. market continues to suffer from weak demand, due to high prices and an even higher hassle factor, and intense competition, particularly from low-cost outfits such as Southwest Airlines Co. and Jet Blue Airways Corp.
In addition, he noted that U.S. legacy carriers need to make major investments in their fleet, information technology and aircraft systems.
But it isn't obvious that such investments, and an overall stronger competitive position, can be achieved by pairing up.
"The question really is: how much more successful can a giant dinosaur be than two medium-size dinosaurs?" Morris said.
Alitalia may be a better financial bet

Morris says he believes Air France-KLM is likely to encourage a tie-up with Northwest, but won't stretch itself to a strong financial investment.
And should it decide to take a stake in a combined Delta-Northwest airline, in the hope of gaining better access to the U.S. market, its share would have to remain small. Federal law currently prohibits foreign investors from controlling more than 25% of the voting equity in any U.S. airline.
There is one final hurdle to consider: Air France-KLM's pockets may be deep, but they are not bottomless. And the airline has just started official talks to acquire struggling Italian airline Alitalia.
And in that case, at least, Morris believes there is money to be made, as the Italian market continues to grow and the airline's business model can be modified.
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  #826  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2008, 9:23 PM
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I don't see how UA can try to acquire CO when UA is the one in financial trouble, etc.
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  #827  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2008, 9:27 PM
megalopolis megalopolis is offline
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Quote:
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I don't see how UA can try to acquire CO when UA is the one in financial trouble, etc.

Well, to start, UA is worth nearly twice as much as CO.
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  #828  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2008, 9:54 PM
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Well, to start, UA is worth twice as much as CO.
You sure? UA is hanging on by shoestrings, while CO is winning countless awards.
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  #829  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2008, 10:19 PM
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I wonder if the TSA cost is not greater than the perceived benefit. In other words, politics aside, given that there appears to be a reduced terrorist threat in the US, could the TSA not be put into a less active status...perhaps scanning only a sample?
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  #830  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2008, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiorenza View Post
I wonder if the TSA cost is not greater than the perceived benefit. In other words, politics aside, given that there appears to be a reduced terrorist threat in the US, could the TSA not be put into a less active status...perhaps scanning only a sample?
The TSA is one of the worst government organisations in American history, bar none.
That being said their is no link between what appears to be a reduced threat (because there isn't a reduced threat) and needing a TSA. It is how the TSA works that needs changing, though not because of threats.

Again, It is the TSA's unAmerican procedures and policies that must be changed.
The ID policy, inspection of certain items, and shoe carnival is the first thing that must go. But I will save this rant for later...
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AWACS
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  #831  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2008, 12:09 AM
megalopolis megalopolis is offline
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Quote:
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You sure? UA is hanging on by shoestrings, while CO is winning countless awards.
It's a matter of record. Look up the market caps for the two companies yourself if you don't believe me.
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  #832  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2008, 5:46 PM
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Typical government, dumb down the populace with inferior government schools, over tax them, then convince them they have a fear the government can cure with a new department thus making the new idiots voting think they are receiving an added benefit by all these new jobs so they don't feel like they are paying enough and add unclear secret fees into existing services to raise taxes even more....TSA!

An aside: Government Health Care Employees coming soon under same perceived threat of all the uninsured Americans threat!

Now back to discussing HJAI Airport and related items.....
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  #833  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2008, 2:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Unity77 View Post
Furthermore:

Northwest owes the Metropolitan Airports Commission more than $245 million in bond repayments, and the airline's lease agreement and bond covenants with the commission require the airline or its successor to maintain its hub and headquarters in Minnesota. If Northwest didn't live up to those terms of the deal, the MAC could potentially declare Northwest in default and demand payment.

http://www.twincities.com/business/ci_7991989
It seems to me Northwest runs the greatest risk of losing both its name and headquarters with any merger. The name sounds more regional compared to Delta, United, Continental, or even American. As for the headquarters, I'm sure it would stay in Atlanta with Delta, Ft. Worth with American, Chicago with United, and probably Houston with Continental.

My point, Northwest execs have to know that in order to survive they will probably need to merge with somebody and give up the name and headquarters.
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  #834  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2008, 2:58 AM
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The HQ would never moved to Minneapolis over Houston.
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  #835  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2008, 4:47 AM
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  #836  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2008, 12:54 PM
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Ever flown through MSP? Nasty little airport. Northwest has lots of nasty hubs.
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  #837  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2008, 1:39 PM
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having flown out of dtw's new terminal to atl just a few weeks ago, i can without a doubt exclude this airport from that statement. dtw will be one of the nicest airports in the country when they finish replacing the second terminal. (which is over 50% complete)

having two hubs in the midwest, msp possibly stands to lose more than just the headquarters...

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  #838  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2008, 4:13 PM
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I agree Detroit does have a much nicer airport than Minneapolis. And it seems that most of Northwest's Asia flights leave from Detroit, not Minneapolis. Most of the articles I've read say if the merger happens, they'll likely keep both hubs. But that seems really pointless to have two midwest hubs so close. And Detroit's winter weather is cold...but Minneapolis' is just ridiculous.

If this merger happens, I think the most logical result is that Atlanta will be the HQ and main hub, Detroit, JFK, and Salt Lake City major hubs, and Minneapolis could be a smaller, regional hub, and Cinncinati and Memphis get de-hubbed.
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  #839  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2008, 8:02 PM
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I believe that if the DL/NW merger happens, DTW & MSP will remain major centers of operation. Actually, DTW is NW's eastern hub. There is no other hub the airline operates to serve various eastern U.S. & Canadian markets from. The 6-year old McNamara Terminal and its concourses are capable of handling much greater levels of service in the years to come. If you review the route network of NW in both MSP & DTW, they don't heavily overlap. NW has a stronghold on the Upper Midwest and Central Canada, and those cities are served via MSP, as well as other small-to-medium cities in the lower Midwest that just don't warrant service from DTW. MSP is also a major metro area (3,000,000+ residents), with a large business community and diverse economy, so there is respectable and consistent local air service demand. The hub that will be decimated is MEM, no question. It lacks the population base, strong local demand, and just isn't that important to NW, even now. It is virtually all 50-seat regional jets, and there are barely more than 125 or so flights a day there, I believe.

DTW, while it is in the doldrums with its significant economic woes, still has 5,000,000 metro area residents. Its location and premier airport facilities (airfield and terminal) and low cost of operation will keep it popular with NW/DL for years to come.

The North Terminal is approximately 75% complete, and will open in September. It will not be a Taj Mahal showplace like the McNamara Terminal, but it will be hands down a major improvement over the existing Smith and Berry Terminals, which it will replace. I take monthly walk-throughs of the developing facility, and it is looking quite good. It is completely enclosed (with the exception of the large windows near each end where the food courts will be located..those are the access points for getting large items into the building during construction), most of the drywall is in place, the terrazzo floor glazing is advancing, the moving sidewalks are being built, the restrooms are being tiled, and the entire interior has been painted. I expect to stroll through it in the upcoming workweek to see the progress made since mid-Dec. Looking forward to it.

I think the merger will be a good thing for DTW. I see some flights shifting here from DL's CVG hub, and the airport would certainly welcome that. It seems that NW employees are so bitter towards management that it may be a blessing for a company with a seemingly better corporate culture to step in and assume control. And Richard Anderson knows NW very well, since he used to be at its helm not too long ago. He knows the issues and he probably will be able to satisfy the unions with details of the deal proposed.
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  #840  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2008, 8:13 PM
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Um, the NW terminal at Detroit is quite nice, but the rest of the airport is nothing special...it has nothing on Atlanta at all in my opinion. I fly in and out of Detroit pretty often
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