Montgomery development news

[Capital Heights]

I would point out that RSA has made only minimal investment on Dexter Avenue, "The Alabama Activity Center", and that is the only place with any night time activity. (With the exception of the Off The Wagon night club)

[bystander1]

Bronner made some good, straight forward points. He said what needed to be said. Most 'preservationists' in this city will do nothing but watch our "treasures" rot...as long as no one develops it into something, it's fine with them. History has proved that to be a fact.
These 'preservationists' had no problem when businesses left downtown to go east 20-30 years ago instead of reinvesting in the core waaaaay back then.

No problem.

They let it rot.

Downtown was nothing for twenty years before RSA started investing anything there. If downtown is still so dead even with the RSA investments, imagine what it would be without them! Realistically, it would not be like some preservationists would claim. It would be even more rotten than it was before RSA helped to clean it up, because the preservationists would have simply allowed it to continue to rot... with little to no investment...a proven record for over 20 years.

At least hiijakd puts his money where his mouth is and actually restores and redevelops buildings downtown into shops and lofts instead of just doing a lot of complaining about smart growth and then run home way out east. I admire that.

hiijakd, if more of your colleagues would do the same, there probably wouldn't be much of a problem wanting to buy old properties to redevelop. They would have been developed before the asking prices went through the roof.

[hiijakd]

the president of the historic preservationists (landmarks) has purchased and renovated the fire house on McDonough so he has put his money where his mouth is and there are many other that would be happy to do the same. One MAJOR problem that has kept Montgomery from being rebuilt is the land banking by people who bought cheap after "white flight" and now ask post development prices for property that they refuse to keep in good repair. i think that before blaming the preservationists we need to look at the property owners that have allowed their property to rot while waiting for their ship to come in. I am referring to the North side of Dexter mostly owned by one individual and the south side mostly owned by another. the three buildings on Perry that I am about to begin were owned by a wealthy attorney in town and he just didn't spend the money he needed to to keep them up. That is the kind of irresponsible behavior that shouldn't be tolerated from anyone regardless of who owns it, (the State owned the judicial building)
Unfortunately white flight happened, downtown was deserted, and the preservationists don't have the enormous pockets to be able to purchase and renovate all of the buildings that need it. This is where RSA comes in. They have the money to buy everything on Dexter avenue, build infill, renovate the lower buildings, and create a district that people would flock to, yet they insist on building office buildings when there is currently 600,000 s.f. of empty office space. That is my problem with them. If they would just look beyond the way "they've always done it" and see the economic benefit of building smart code friendly projects then I have no problem.
RSA seems to want praise but that shouldn't be the motivation. i could care less if people know my name, especially the BIG WIGS that we know run this city, what i want is a downtown to be proud of, where people of all types flood to get the best of living, dining, and entertainment.
If what RSA has done for 20 years hasn't brought about the redevelopment of downtown consistent with cities all over the country then maybe they aren't doing something right......just a thought.

[Capital Heights]

I have several things to say here. First, I think that most people would agree that David Bronner is an arrogant prig. But I do not think that anyone can or should say that he does not have the best interest of this city and this state in mind. You might not agree with the projects he pursues but you cannot honestly say that he is deliberately trying to destroy the city.

Second, all this business about his ability to develop tax free projects is a red herring. Your problem is not the tax free aspect of the developments it is the development itself. If you found his project's designs to your liking you would not mention the tax free element.

Third, I think there are three issues relative to the Judicial Building project. The preservation of the old Judicial Building; the impact of the new building on the view up Dexter Avenue; and the lack of pedestrian interaction at the street level of the building. I think most people would agree that Bronner's idea of preservation is radically different from the traditional. But, at the end of the day the building is preserved; score that one to Bronner. The impact to the existing view is debatable depending on one's perspective. I personally think that the view will be impacted but over time we will probably get used to it; score this one a toss up. My biggest concern is the lack of pedestrian interaction with the building. Most of Bronner's buidlings have a concrete wall at the sidewalk that prohibits pedestrians from accessing the building. This might be okay for the truly government builidngs within the Capital Complex proper, my view is that it is not appropriate for Dexter Avenue.

I think the best opportunity to effect change on this builidng is to tone down the rhetoric and concentrate on making the building more pedestrian friendly.

I do tend to agree with Bronner in his criticism of the preservation community in Montgomery. We tend to be reactionary; not proactive. Maybe we can use this as a catalyst to transform us into an active group that is successful in protecting those vacant rotting structures on Dexter that we all love.

[midwestrabbi]

I remember when Dexter Avenue and Monroe Street were busy with activity every day of the week, until white flight and the Malls, Sears left for South Court Street and Montgomery Fair ( Gayfers, Dillards ) and Pennys left for Montgomery Mall. Normandale was for a short time the souths largest shopping mall ( according to Aronov article in the Advertiser ). Then there was Urban renewal and Dexter Avenue was tore up for 18 months while they replaced the storm and sewage drains and built the Court Square Plaza and Pizitz Dept store ( a super ellgant place ). The building that I worked in had to renew their lease and we found out that the Hill family along with sixteen more land owners owned
the fourth of a block that our building sat on. I moved on to Birmingham about that time but I was told that the Mayor at that time placed much pressure on the land owners not to renew any leases on the first block of Dexter. About that time the past Mayor thought that Montgomery did not need and public transit, you could drive the downtown streets on any weekday and other than lunch hour for workers in the office buildings the streets would be deserted. I was really thrilled to hear the news that Dr. Bronner was taking an interest in Downtown, as it would take someone with deep pockets to do what needed to be done to bring that ghost town back. i do know that times change and there will never be a Sears, Pennys or Dillards downtown ever again. But for so long a time downtown was frowned on by the leaders and elected officials. Still today I do not understand why any landowner would rather have their buildings sit empty ( as in Most downtown areas ) . I have and will always prefer downtown ( in any city that I visit or live in ) over any mall or shopping center anywhere. Downtown in any city is where you find the character of the city, I have traveled much and have never seen a downtown area that I did not like, Birmingham with its Birmingham Green, Atlanta fAMOUS Peachtree Street and Mobile and New Orleans with is beautiful downtown parks and Cathedrals, and Denver with its 16th Street Mall ( downtown street that is closed to traffic ) and I could go on and on, and yes that brings me back to Montgomery with its famous Dexter Avenue and Commerce Street very unique as they unite at the Court Square area. I do miss Montgomery and all of the new growth and excitement that Downtown is experiencing.

[thoraudio]

I absolutely agree with Byron about the absentee landlord's on lower Dexter.

When I was checking prices last year, they were unfreakingbelievable. $1.3 million for the Kress building, which is rotting away. $300k for the pizza place down there..... with rotten floors and broken windows.... people trying to sell poop for gold prices.

[hiijakd]

capital heights
i have been talking to a few people about trying to develop a way to be much more proactive in the process of restoring property. unfortunately preservationists have gotten the reputation over the years for talking alot and not doing alot, hopefully this is going to change soon. I would love to form some form of non-profit that can purchase, renovate, and maybe even donate the property on Dexter. i would love to see it happen trust me.
i also agree that the building needs street interaction, i think that is definitely something that should be addressed but by the looks of Bronner's last article, he isn't interested.

[bystander1]

The high prices on Dexter is part of my point. The 'preservationists' and other "white-flighters" collaborated with the former mayor to help kill any meaningful development downtown in favor of eastside sprawl. Now it's time to pay the piper...
Reality Check: The opportunity to to grab and develop on the cheap has gone.

Suggestion to preservationists: concentrate on purchasing (fund-raise if need-be) some of the buildings along Dexter for redevelopment before its too late instead of fighting a losing battle against Bronner. Insulting him will not work. He won't be shamed into complying with some one else's demands.

[Capital Heights]

Hiijakd: I was remiss in my ealier statement not to praise you and others like you who have actually done something positive in downtown. My criticism is directed at our lack of a really organized movement.

I really believe we do ourselves and our movement a disservice when we critize people's personalities and motivations and when we toss out half truths and innuendo. This is not directed at you Hiijakd, but more at some of the speakers at the meeting at Landmarks.

One final thing, I have heard some say they are willing to allow Bronner to raze the Old Judicial Building if he would remove a floor or two off the proposed building - I am not in agreement with this approach.

[hiijakd]

haha.... please don't praise me and what i have done, i don't want that in any way...that isn't why i do what i do.
i also agree that bronner isn't trying to destroy the city, i definitely don't like what he has done but i know he thinks he is contributing, i just wish he was following smart code.

[OldCloverdale]

Originally Posted by Chad Emerson

The fact remains that Downtown Montgomery is a dead place...Why can't Montgomery's leaders learn from the successes of others?

Why can't David Bronner learn from the successes of others?

[thoraudio]

Originally Posted by OldCloverdale

Why can't David Bronner learn from the successes of others?

Because what he has done has been a 'success'. He looks at Montgomery, sees those 7 or 8 green topped buildings with good occupancy numbers, and thinks of that as a success.... and as long as he's getting a good ROI, it is a success for his purposes.

He's been blinded that it can acutally be better.

[RSAHort]

Or maybe he sees investing millions in retail as a bigger gamble for RSA than office buildings. You have to remember he is building to invest and make more money for RSA...not just make Montgomery a better place.

[Brown Duckz]

Originally Posted by RSAHort

Or maybe he sees investing millions in retail as a bigger gamble for RSA than office buildings. You have to remember he is building to invest and make more money for RSA...not just make Montgomery a better place.

This is a very good point. It may not be as wise to invest the RSA dollars into those certain things that Montgomery REALLY needs, but at some point in time we are going to have to look to and rely on private dollars to keep this going. What Bronner has done for Montgomery is great, even if it's not YOUR style--without him, think about how much blight would be in place of all the buildings.

[thoraudio]

http://montgomerypicture.com/index.html

Saw this advertised while at Chris' Hotdogs today.

[Brown Duckz]

Byron, did you buy your Perry St. property from the Hills?

[hiijakd]

no. i bought them from the city who just purchased them from john bowman.

[EXbubba]

I agree with capital hgts, midwest rabbi, and come from almost all of the same positions they espouse. Like midwest rabbi, I worked downtown as a young man and saw the destruction of it with "urban renewal". I believe the former mayor(s) were doing what they thought was best with a very limited vision and some would rather see downtown burn than have people of races other than white shopping and enjoying themselves as has been done by so many in the past 100 hundred years. I grew listening to my mom talking about all the fun they used to have downtown at good restaurants and many theaters. I remember shopping at Montgomery Fair, Sears, Grants, Newberry, and Kress and spending afternoons in the downtown library or in Capitol Book and News after a movie at the Paramount or Empire. We used to come downtown by the carload to spend all morning at the Charles theater to see Tarzan, the Three Stooges, a numerous cowboy flicks. Those days are gone and downtown has gone from alive to dead to all but dead. Along with all of the good points made by the above writers, the powers that be must be brought into the Dover Kohl idea of smart growth and be made to invest or sell their properties. The city should harass them it they don't meet code. I see the lively downtowns of other southern city with not even half the history MGM has to offer and it has just broken my heart many times over because the rich lawyers and landowners of MGM cannot see beyond their country clubs and eastern suburbs. The town will never live without their help - be it Lowder, Aronov, or any other developer. I almost believe rich blacks like Robert Johnson or Magic Johnson might be more willing to work on developing the downtown if they saw a profit and a fair deal for people of color. Bobby Bright cannot do it by himself and it seems that envision 2020 is withering on the vine

[thoraudio]

Don't know that we've seen this render before.



From The Decatur Daily, accompnaying this article.

State history in jeopardy
Construction of office building in Montgomery threatens to destroy view of Alabama Capitol

By Phillip Rawls
Associated Press Writer
MONTGOMERY — Alabama’s pension system has reshaped downtown Montgomery with high-rise office buildings and luxury hotels. But critics say its latest project in front of the historic Capitol threatens to destroy a view that has been revered by everyone from Civil War soldiers to civil rights marchers.

The Retirement Systems of Alabama is planning a modern 12-story office building one block in front of the Greek revival Capitol. Opponents say it will reach slightly higher than the Capitol’s dome.

“This is a ghastly and grotesque contrast in style,” said Mary Walton Upchurch, a landscape architect from Montgomery.

David Bronner, chief executive of the Retirement Systems, says the pension fund has invested about $900 million in downtown Montgomery to keep it alive, not damage it.

“Without these buildings, your downtown would have been dead 20 years ago,” Bronner said.

The Capitol sits on a hill at the head of Dexter Avenue, Montgomery’s main street. The broad avenue begins six blocks away at a fountain located where slave auctions were once held.

The view from the fountain to the Capitol has been as much a part of Alabama’s history as the view from the National Mall to the U.S. Capitol has been a part of America’s history.

Critics say the proposed building, the highest on Dexter Avenue by three floors, will overwhelm a view that spans two of the most important periods in American history.

Supporters of the Confederacy saw that view in 1861 when they walked up Dexter Avenue to the Capitol steps to see Jefferson Davis sworn in as the first president of the Confederate States.

A century later, thousands of voting rights marchers walked up that same street and saw the same view as they completed the bloody Selma-to-Montgomery march and listened to Martin Luther King Jr. at the Capitol steps.

“That hill has seen Alabama history, American history, even international history. That hill is one of the most precious sites in the state of Alabama,” Montgomery historian Mary Ann Neely said.

Richard Moe, president of the National Trust for Historic Preservation, has joined state and local historic preservation groups in opposing the existing plan. In a letter to Gov. Bob Riley, Moe called for “a more moderate and sensitive plan” for the site.

Riley, whose Capitol office looks toward the building site, has encouraged the two sides to talk. But he said, “The rendering that I saw that Dr. Bronner brought over was a very attractive building.”

For Bronner, who describes himself as “a Yankee from Minnesota,” this is another round in the battle he’s been waging since he started using the pension fund to invest in downtown Montgomery 20 years ago.

Each project, including office towers that now house 6,700 workers, has run into opposition because the construction required the demolition or removal of old buildings. Bronner said the opposition has come from people who want downtown Montgomery to look like a quiet Civil War fort rather than mixing old with new.

Nothing new in the article.... but the building... I dunno... nice and modern.... ehhhh..... I dunno...

[OldCloverdale]

any of y'all ever seen the state capitol in Tallahassee?

BEFORE:







AFTER: