Lister Block | ? | 6 fl | Renovation

[DC83]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

brutal...this is a friggin joke.
with no street retail, they are completely butchering this thing. what else would I expect from LIUNA and HiRise.
I'll tell you one thing, if Fred doesn't get his act together he's certainly lost this vote next election.
Go check out the new city office space in the old Eatons next to farmers market...that's what Lister will look like at James and King William. Brutal!!

Ya, the City Centre is horrible. I'm kinda scared of the next election: Brad Clark vs Fred... it's a lose-lose (so far anyway).

[realcity]

So the future of The Right House is uncertain. The retail/bottom floor is entirely vacant right now. What will happen when its biggest tenant leaves?

[realcity]

I'll take Clark over Fred.

Terry Cooke seems to think Tom Jackson will run too. haha (Simpson's laugh)

[SteelTown]

Originally Posted by realcity

So the future of The Right House is uncertain. The retail/bottom floor is entirely vacant right now. What will happen when its biggest tenant leaves?

Residential?

[LikeHamilton]

I don’t know what people expect office space to look like but all that people will get out there is big wide-open spaces with movable walls and very few actual offices. That is the cheapest way of doing it. They will place energy efficient florescent lights in it and give everyone energy efficient florescent desk lamp so they can turn off the ceiling lights. I would not expect anything else in any office with more than 2 people in any building whether it is and old building or a new building. And there has to be a lot of changes to put in the thousands of miles of modern wiring for all of the modern systems.

I am not sure what people where expecting the inside to look like but I would expect anyone who took over the building to completely gut the building a start fresh. There is nothing to save in it. No lights or baseboards, or doors. Just rotting plaster and floors. You don’t really expect them to put antique incandescent lights in there with rotary phones? The staff would never put up with it and the cost to the taxpayers would be criminal. Besides, no one of us or the rest of the public will ever see the inside where the average worker toils. It will not ever be a tourist attraction. All that people will see is the outside of the building, restored or replicated and the first floor reception and contact areas. The first floor can look more period related but still has to have modern items in it.
You can have ground floor retail but only after the public contact areas are assigned. There is a (I believe) federal act that requires municipalities (if building new or renovating) across the country to have all contact centers for the public to be accessible to everyone regardless of their handicap. So if you put civic offices in it, it has to have first floor accessible contact points. When they tendered the new federal building they had a requirement for “X” amount of ground floor accessible area. This is one of the points that hurt the Lister Building.

[DC83]

Well considering the state in which Lister is in, gutting it is all that can be done, really.

Although I'm sure we'd ALL love Lister to go through the same type of interior reno as the BMO Bldg (now Gowlings):


http://www.myhamilton.ca/NR/rdonlyres/E0191D1B-6E26-45E8-B51F-30CE02B4E715/0/GOWLINGSthmb.jpg

[SteelTown]

The only time we'll be able to see these buildings is during Doors Open.

[raisethehammer]

I don't mind that BMO project...in fact, I love it. It's great for office space.
Lister is different. It was built to have retail at street level. they are going to butcher it if they put cubicles at street level.

[matt602]

I still can't decide if I should be happy or indifferent about the new proposal.

It seems the only way we're going to get a proper Lister restoration is if it's bought by someone who wants to do mixed use residential/commercial. This office stuff just ISN'T gonna work.

[DC83]

Originally Posted by matt602

I still can't decide if I should be happy or indifferent about the new proposal.

It seems the only way we're going to get a proper Lister restoration is if it's bought by someone who wants to do mixed use residential/commercial. This office stuff just ISN'T gonna work.

Nope, it wont work as offices... we just all settled for it at the beginning as we were all just SO DAMN EXCITED anything was happening with it!!

It kinda scares me to think that if it were City of Hamilton offices at street-level, it'll be just like the old Ontario Works (Welfare) office in the old Woolworth's on King St E. Remember how all the "clients" would stand around outside the office, smoking, yelling, scaring ppl to the other side of King... I don't want that to happen on King William as it's such a pedestrian-friendly environment.

The only thing that will bring King William back to life (the street, not the king) is a residential Lister!

[Goldfinger]

Originally Posted by matt602

I still can't decide if I should be happy or indifferent about the new proposal.

It seems the only way we're going to get a proper Lister restoration is if it's bought by someone who wants to do mixed use residential/commercial. This office stuff just ISN'T gonna work.

You can't market a residential condominium development of that potential size with no parking. You would have a hard time selling units.

Don't forget that these types of condo's come with no homeowners warranty either. A buyer is basically going to take a huge leap and hope they did everything right during the renos.

[Jon Dalton]

Can you market office space with no parking any easier? You're right though, I'm sure the Piggott building in its current form depends on the parking lot right beside it, which sucks because James between Main and King should not have that. Would the Lister project neccessitate keeping the parking lot where the old Zellers was? Or is it acceptable for downtown workers to park somewhere else a few hundred feet from the office?

[DC83]

Originally Posted by Goldfinger

You can't market a residential condominium development of that potential size with no parking. You would have a hard time selling units.

Don't forget that these types of condo's come with no homeowners warranty either. A buyer is basically going to take a huge leap and hope they did everything right during the renos.

I totally agree it's way tougher to sell a condo of any sort (new or reno'd) without designated parking spots.
However, the Annex Lofts had zero parking (I think they have like 7 or 8 spots now) when they 1st started to sell, and they did pretty damn good. This is in an even shadier area of the core!

So, if they were to convert Lister back to residential lofts/condos/whatever, I can guarantee they'll sell just as well (if not better) than both Annex & Core Lofts combined!

[SteelTown]

The issue of parking has never been brought up because the plan that city council approved was a replica of Lister Block and it would have underground parking.

Guess they could start a shuttle bus service or create a parking garage at the old Zeller's spot.

[matt602]

Somehow I don't think people are going to want to wait around for a shuttle bus just to get to their cars (and I certainly hope they wouldn't be *that* lazy as to need a bus to take them a 10 minute walk away).

Being honest here, are all these parking considerations as important in other well functioning cities like Toronto or New York, or is it just Hamilton? It seems so un-necessary to be making any considerations for parking at all in such an urban setting, especially when we're trying to promote public transit, biking, walking to work.

[markbarbera]

Originally Posted by Jon Dalton

Can you market office space with no parking any easier? You're right though, I'm sure the Piggott building in its current form depends on the parking lot right beside it, which sucks because James between Main and King should not have that. Would the Lister project neccessitate keeping the parking lot where the old Zellers was? Or is it acceptable for downtown workers to park somewhere else a few hundred feet from the office?

Pigott/SunLife do not depend on the parking lot next to Pigott. A parking garage was constructed behind the buildings. Its entrance is off of Main just east of the United Church at MacNab. It is that ugly building with the faux copper roof that also houses the condos' rec room/gym.

A similar (but hopefully less unattractive) parking garage could be built behind the existing Lister building, so parking really isn't an issue.

[raisethehammer]

Originally Posted by matt602

Somehow I don't think people are going to want to wait around for a shuttle bus just to get to their cars (and I certainly hope they wouldn't be *that* lazy as to need a bus to take them a 10 minute walk away).

Being honest here, are all these parking considerations as important in other well functioning cities like Toronto or New York, or is it just Hamilton? It seems so un-necessary to be making any considerations for parking at all in such an urban setting, especially when we're trying to promote public transit, biking, walking to work.

New York DOESN'T allow parking...you have to fight to get any spaces added to your project...in Hamilton it's the opposite...we demand it. We keep trying to act like Borington or Mississuaga instead of a real city.

[markbarbera]

Originally Posted by Goldfinger

Don't forget that these types of condo's come with no homeowners warranty either. A buyer is basically going to take a huge leap and hope they did everything right during the renos.

Given the success of prior condo conversions in the city (SunLife, Pigott, and Chateau Royale are all just a bit up the road), and the increased demand for condos of late, there would be little difficulty in finding buyers.

[markbarbera]

Originally Posted by realcity

Someone tell me how emptying out The Right House to save the Lister makes sense. After Public Health leaves Right House, the only thing left is Tim Hortons. And Tim's will probably move to a kiosk on the ground floor. Thus giving the 'retail' component for Lister.

Won't we be emptying one building for another?

I made this exact point when I spoke at the City Hall public meeting back in 2006 on the original 'replication' proposal. Unfortunately, the World Cup was being played and, with so many people speaking on the project, by the time I spoke Italy had taken the field and council's attention was diverted. Don't even think it made it into the minutes for that meeting.

[realcity]