Montgomery development news

[OCA REP]

Originally Posted by OldCloverdale

Isn't Montgomery "home" for Bronner?

I believe that was just a play off an old term where a kid would not get his way... or get mad while playing with friends and "go home and take his toys with him." That sounds like something Bronner would do.

I did enjoy the forum last night. But after absorbing so much information, I personally prefer preserving the view over the old Judicial Building. I hate to say that, but whatever type of tower the RSA ends up building, needs to not destroy the view up Dexter Avenue.

One other thing. I was somewhat confused last night when the discussion came up concering maximum building heights for downtown. Is it true that the new code prohibits anything over six stories? I support in-fill and the new code, but would not mind at all strategically-placed towers. I think if they are done correctly, they help define and give additional character to a business district.

[midwestrabbi]

For years all I heard was Montgomery cannot have any tall buildings because we do not want to obstruct any views of the Capital. I ran a business downtown ( Montgomery )for 20 years and frankly I never understood why Montgomery inhibits progress because of the Capital. its not like you are blocking Dexter. If Montgomery wants to eventually look and have the big city feel, when people and companies with deep pockets want to build and develop let them go for it. If I remember right this particular old supreme court/ masonic building sat empty for more than ten years. Where was the Landmarks Foundation for the past decade, why did they not buy it ? For the most part the mindset of people who live their needs to change, for the sake of progress. Remember when the Mayor wanted to build Riverwalk Stadium and most said that it would be a waste of money. Think about this : If it were not for Dr. Bronner what would downtown Montgomery look like ?

[bystander1]

Originally Posted by midwestrabbi

For years all I heard was Montgomery cannot have any tall buildings because we do not want to obstruct any views of the Capital. I ran a business downtown ( Montgomery )for 20 years and frankly I never understood why Montgomery inhibits progress because of the Capital. its not like you are blocking Dexter. If Montgomery wants to eventually look and have the big city feel, when people and companies with deep pockets want to build and develop let them go for it. If I remember right this particular old supreme court/ masonic building sat empty for more than ten years. Where was the Landmarks Foundation for the past decade, why did they not buy it ? For the most part the mindset of people who live their needs to change, for the sake of progress. Remember when the Mayor wanted to build Riverwalk Stadium and most said that it would be a waste of money. Think about this : If it were not for Dr. Bronner what would downtown Montgomery look like ?

I'm with you dude.

[thoraudio]

I think some of you guys are missing the point.

It's not that most are opposed to RSA putting money downtown, or even that there is a particular affinity for the Judicial/Masonic Temple building. It's that the proposed building is out of scale, doesn't follow the city's recently in place guidelines, and doesn't enhance Dexter.

Instead of a set back, 12 story building, how about 5 or 6 floors that addresses the street and includes retail space (you know, even the govt can use retail space for certain types of offices.... licenses etc...). The remainder of the needed space could be found between the RSA parking deck and Dexter, with a similar height plan. Then, you've added greatly to the whole area, instead of swallowing up future growth in a 1 block area.

OCA, the code prevents >6 only on Dexter.

Midwest Rabbi, didn't your name use to be rabbi2007? What's with the 'I'm curious about your city' remarks followed by the 'I was there for 20 years'?

[midwestrabbi]

I am now a resident of Denver. I spent some years here back in the late 60's when I was in the Air Force and when I retired I relocated here. I ran a business on Dexter for several years. Does that answer YOUR 5 questions ?

[thoraudio]

that was actually 2 questions.

Rabbi2007 was/is a member who worked in a jewelry store in downtown Montgomery who had the curious habit of forgetting he was from the Montgomery area. One day he'd post about how great the Biscuit's stadium was, then a month later, ask a question like 'Ive seen pictures of your train station, what's it being used for?' Followed a month later by questions about why haven't we seen pics of 'our' convention center... etc....

Your name was similar to his, the Midwest nome de plume matching his curious obsession with Witchita, KS, and the posting patterns were similar, hence, my supposition.

Of course, I may be wrong.

[midwestrabbi]

NOT Me. I have never worked in a jewelry store, and I use the name rabbi only because I am a jew and studied in hebrew in college and at the Shul. I have lived in Montgomery, and was transfered to Birmingham ( which I love ) before I retired. Many years ago I taught in a private school. I read much on this site as this is the way I keep up with things going on the M G M. Can I not be curious and have questions ? I was in Montgomery in August for a funeral and drove through downtown and was impressed with the round-about at Court Square.

[rbp]

I think the Judicial Building is not appropriate case for a fight to save the building. I don't see a very good way to convert the existing building into anything that would really relate to the street. You'd almost need to build retail in front of the existing building. Removing the steps might have helped, but it would still be an imposing building.

As for the construction of more towers, they're not going to add pedestrians to the area. We've got a lot of empty buildings and need to find a way to use the current architecture, where possible, to provide a draw.

[OldCloverdale]

Originally Posted by thoraudio

I think some of you guys are missing the point.

It's not that most are opposed to RSA putting money downtown, or even that there is a particular affinity for the Judicial/Masonic Temple building. It's that the proposed building is out of scale, doesn't follow the city's recently in place guidelines, and doesn't enhance Dexter.

Instead of a set back, 12 story building, how about 5 or 6 floors that addresses the street and includes retail space (you know, even the govt can use retail space for certain types of offices.... licenses etc...). The remainder of the needed space could be found between the RSA parking deck and Dexter, with a similar height plan. Then, you've added greatly to the whole area, instead of swallowing up future growth in a 1 block area.

I agree except I heard this new building would target private offices, not government.

I hope they can come to some sort of compromise.

I don't want another "suburban style" office building, but if that's what someone wants, I'd rather it be downtown that out east like Bobby Lowder's Colonial Bank headquarters .

[OCA REP]

Originally Posted by OldCloverdale

I agree except I heard this new building would target private offices, not government.

I hope they can come to some sort of compromise.

I don't want another "suburban style" office building, but if that's what someone wants, I'd rather it be downtown that out east like Bobby Lowder's Colonial Bank headquarters .

Why did you have to bring up the Colonial Bank exodus from downtown??????

I still hate that a compromise did not happen to keep all those workers downtown. With Colonial leaving (for the most part) downtown and the massive layoffs from Regions Bank after the Scamsouth merger, the Court Square area is often much more desolate than it once was.

The statement was made at the forum the other evening that the proposed RSA Judicial Building would target private offices for the most part, not state government offices. This was discussed a little further when the executive garage/parking area was discussed on the blueprints. It was explained that this was a necessary feature to help recruit grade-A corporate tenants.

[bystander1]

Originally Posted by OldCloverdale

I agree except I heard this new building would target private offices, not government.

I hope they can come to some sort of compromise.

I don't want another "suburban style" office building, but if that's what someone wants, I'd rather it be downtown that out east like Bobby Lowder's Colonial Bank headquarters .

true indeed.

[hiijakd]

You are right, this building has nothing to do with state government. it is going to be around $22 p.s.f. which is way too high for governmental offices. translation- private office space $6-7 higher than the current market rate and we all know how realistic people are on their prices already.

[midwestrabbi]

This new building that is being built on Dexter will be class A office space, right? What about the Regions buildings are they full and the Bell Building and the Union Bank Building ( Montgomerys tallest for 25 years ). Are these buildings fully leased, and as much as I like to see new buildings built especially tall ones is there a need for this space ? I remember when Atlanta overbuilt several years ago, I now live in Denver and it seems like every week we hear of a highrise being planned. What is the occupancy rate for office space in downtown Montgomery ? I hear that Colonail Bank moved their H Q out of downtown is this building now empty, and then there is One Court Square ( Old Pizitz Dept. Store ) this was at one time Class A space. I just read where someone said that around Court Square it is desolate, where are all of the people who occupy these offices ?

[Brown Duckz]

I think Class A office space in Bronner's mind is a brand new tower, nothing else--or so it seems, everytime he talks about "Class A" space. This may be some good for Montgomery.... the older properties you mentioned would be perfect for residential.

[rbp]

Colonial is still in the old Pizitz, and I think it's full.

Hadn't really thought about using the other buildings as residential. For Union Bank building, work would have to be done on plumbing, but there would be great views, probably two-four units per floor, parking's available. There's also space on the first floor that could be retail.

And what about the building across Molton from Rosa Parks? Not class A, but as far as I know, it's completely empty.

[hiijakd]

I would be happy to show anyone who is interested around town to point out all of the empty space we have. There is currently about 600,000 s.f. of leasable space out there that is or could easily be class A office space. Unfortunately the buildings you mentioned around court square and down dexter need a good bit of work and since we developers have to pay taxes on materials, pay for permits, and work within smart code requirements we are at a disadvantage compared to RSA who doesn't have to do those things. in my opinion the $200 million they are spending would be enough to buy every property on Dexter and renovate them all as well as build a series of buildings around their parking deck which would spread out all of that office space and create a walkable area but of course they don't want to do that. just because they've always done it one way they don't seem to want to consider a better idea (what they don't understand is that it is far more profitable in the long run to build within the smart code.)

[OCA REP]

Originally Posted by midwestrabbi

This new building that is being built on Dexter will be class A office space, right? What about the Regions buildings are they full and the Bell Building and the Union Bank Building ( Montgomerys tallest for 25 years ). Are these buildings fully leased, and as much as I like to see new buildings built especially tall ones is there a need for this space ? I remember when Atlanta overbuilt several years ago, I now live in Denver and it seems like every week we hear of a highrise being planned. What is the occupancy rate for office space in downtown Montgomery ? I hear that Colonail Bank moved their H Q out of downtown is this building now empty, and then there is One Court Square ( Old Pizitz Dept. Store ) this was at one time Class A space. I just read where someone said that around Court Square it is desolate, where are all of the people who occupy these offices ?

I can speak regarding two of these buildings:

Regions Bank (8 Commerce Street): Lots of empty space.
Regions Tower (60 Commerce Street-Old Union Bank): A ghost town. Some floors only have 8 or fewer people on them.

I hear conflicting reports on the sale of the Regions buildings. It was close to a done deal; now it is not.

Someone else will have to address the other buildings that were mentioned.

I saw the WSFA Editorial (in favor of the new building) last night and read comments (also in favor) from the Governor in The Montgomery Advertiser this morning. Gov. Riley's comments were particulary troublesome:

Riley not against RSA renovation

Gov. Bob Riley said he is not opposed to plans by the Retirement Systems of Alabama to build a 12-story office building where the old state Supreme Court building stands.

"I looked at a drawing and it is a beautiful building," he said. "I would say it is very attractive."

Asked whether or not the building might spoil the view down Dexter Avenue from his office, Riley said he didn't know.

"I don't spend much time looking out the window, so that doesn't really matter," he said.

-- Cosby Woodruff

If the Governor does not appreciate the view, I think we might have a problem.

[hiijakd]

i just read his comments too. that says something about the Governor in my opinion, money and bending to RSA are more important than the history of our state...Would it be fair to say we are be "prostituting" ourselves out?

[Brown Duckz]

Quick debate question. Was Atlanta in this type of dilemma when buildings eventually blocked all views of their capitol?

[OCA REP]

Originally Posted by Brown Duckz

Quick debate question. Was Atlanta in this type of dilemma when buildings eventually blocked all views of their capitol?

Good question! If we are going to debate this, lets be sure to get Gov. Riley and Gov. Perdue (his "Water War" foe in Georgia) involved. Maybe a Governor whose capitol building view is obscured by buildings can help educate one whose capitol building view is being threatened.