HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Atlantic Provinces


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #1561  
Old Posted Jan 2, 2008, 7:52 AM
mylesmalley's Avatar
mylesmalley mylesmalley is offline
Moderator / Supervillain
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Moncton, NB
Posts: 4,101
Quote:
Originally Posted by SJTOKO View Post
I agree, most of the buildings can go but I personally like the old CFBC building and I don't want to see it go... As for the Synagogue, with all of the money flowing back into Saint John maybe the Jewish population will flourish again, I say keep it...

Yikes...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1562  
Old Posted Jan 2, 2008, 8:56 AM
SJTOKO SJTOKO is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by mylesmalley View Post
Yikes...
Zing!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1563  
Old Posted Jan 2, 2008, 3:35 PM
magee_b magee_b is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 259
KENNEBECASIS city?
Local government Quispamsis, Rothesay mayors feel merging to become N.B.'s fourth-largest city would be a good thing

Erin Dwyer
For the Telegraph-Journal
Published Wednesday January 2nd, 2008
Appeared on page C1
Tales of great rivalries between neighbours abound.

Shakespeare's Montagues and Capulets. The Hatfields and the McCoys. The Wars of the Roses between the houses of Lancaster and York. The French and the British in the colonies.

Rothesay and Quispamsis can't compare with these combinations, but their rivalry is sometimes just as fierce, or so some would have us believe.

Today, as spring municipal elections loom, both mayors and some councilors say it's time for better co-operation. More regionalization. Even amalgamation of the two Kennebecasis Valley towns - a proposal both dismissed just two years ago when the KV Chamber of Commerce called for an end to the bickering.

Today, those running the two towns seem to be softening their positions.

"A number of people have mentioned it to me," Rothesay Mayor Bill Bishop said in an interview. "And initially, I didn't give it much thought. But lately I've been thinking about it."

Said Quispamsis Mayor Ron Maloney: "I think there is a strong argument that the two communities - Rothesay and Quispam - should amalgamate."

Suprisingly, it's not the only thing they agree on. When asked what the new name of the town could be, Maloney offered Kennebecasis Valley while Bishop suggested Kennebecasis - after all, the regional fire department was just renamed as the Kennebecasis Valley Regional Fire Department.

And both mayors don't believe they are alone in their support for an amalgamated community.

"My personal opinion is if you did a poll of all the residents from Rothesay to Quispam, I think you'd find the vast majority would say why don't we just become one 'cause that's what we are," Maloney said. "We're all one community."

As for amalgamation with Saint John - an idea the province first floated in 1997 - the answer is a vehement no.

"I can tell you that the area would go kicking and screaming all the way," Maloney said.

Quispamsis and Rothesay sit side by side, two towns stretching down to the Kennebecasis River and sharing a bustling main drag, surrounded by quiet residential neighbourhoods. The boundaries are so invisible that some Quispamsis residents have to drive down Rothesay streets to access their subdivisions.

"If you ask the people of their community where their border is, many, many of them can't even tell you," said Quispamsis Deputy Mayor Murray Driscoll. "We shop in Rothesay, and Rothesay shops in Quispamsis. Rothesay uses our beach in Gondola Point and Meenan's Cove and we use their facilities.

"I just don't see why we aren't working better."

Rothesay, with a population of 11,637, has a reputation for housing some of Canada's wealthiest families.

Quispamsis, with a population of 15,239, has the reputation of being one of New Brunswick's fastest growing communities. Between 2001 and 2005, its population swelled 10.8 per cent, according to Statistics Canada; in comparison, neighbouring Rothesay's grew only 1.1 per cent. This year, Quispamsis' tax base assessment grew by $113 million to just over $1 billion.

But this wasn't always the scenario.

In 1996, the McKenna government appointed Skip Cormier as a one-man commission to hold public hearings examining how to simplify the maze of nine municipal governments in the Saint John area. In his report to the province, A Community of Communities, Cormier recommended the communities of the Kennebecasis Valley and Grand Bay amalgamate with Saint John.

Opposition was so furious the province announced a compromise in the spring of 1997. It was one that differed from Cormier's second option: to consolidate the eight Kennebecasis Valley communities into one. That prospect had worried city officials, concerned they would end up with a rival city on their doorstep, competing with Saint John for the same government funding and vying attract industries.

Instead of one huge city - or even another city in the Kennebecasis Valley - larger towns would be created. On Jan. 1, 1998, Quispamsis would amalgamate with Gondola Point and a portion of Wells, while Rothesay would swallow up Renforth, Fairvale, East Riverside-Kingshurst and the other portion of Wells. The Town of Grand Bay would amalgamate with the Village of Westfield.

Prior to amalgamation, the rivalry between the two towns played out mostly on soccer fields and ice surfaces. But most agree the perceived antagonism between Rothesay and Quispamsis began not long after.

Since 1998, they've disagreed on a regional wastewater system; which town would supply water to the new police headquarters; on a cost-sharing agreement on the Rothesay Arena. They went to binding arbitration in 2005 for a replacement to their 15-year joint agreement for the regional fire department. Last year, they couldn't reach an agreement on a proposal for a new regional rink or how the costs were to be shared to replace aging fire equipment for the regional fire hall.

Those on the two councils say the disagreements are just differences on what's best for their respective towns.

"Right now, we're here to represent the taxpayers in our own community," Maloney said. "And I understand Rothesay is there to do the same. "¦ You do have to be responsible to the taxpayers in your community and you're going to do what's best for them, and that's probably where some of the disagreements come."

Said Bishop: "We do have our spats and I think each mayor tries to speak up for the people in his community, but really there are no major, major issues that are unable to be solved."

Amalgamating Rothesay and Quispamsis would have its benefits, those running the towns say.

For one, it would ultimately end the disputes between the towns. Differences over the cost sharing of existing regional facilities, such as the fire and police departments as well as the library, wouldn't exist.

"It would eliminate any controversy that might be involved with those kinds of things," Maloney said. "If we were one community and one taxpayer, then that would certainly simplify things a lot."

It might also give the area a larger voice. An amalgamation of Quispamsis and Rothesay would give the new municipality a combined population of nearly 27,000 and make it the fourth largest city in New Brunswick - behind Saint John, Moncton and Fredericton.

"We would be larger than Miramichi, Edmundston and Bathurst and there might be some advantages to that," the mayor of Rothesay said.

It might also help to attract some of the economic boom that Saint John is expecting to experience in the next five years.

"I think that there will be one town in 10 years," Bishop said. "And if we look at it and do some careful planning it will be one of those ideal communities that has a good school system and excellent recreational facilities and we're minutes away from downtown Saint John."

Combining the towns wouldn't necessarily provide a cost saving. The police and fire services have already been combined into regional services, which between them represent some 30 per cent of the two towns' operating budgets. While a combined municipality would have only one city manager and one mayor and council on its payroll, the savings would likely represent not even a penny on the tax rate.

"As far as staff goes, you'd probably need pretty much near the same amount of staff, maybe not the same positions," Maloney said. "But the work is still there that needs to be done."

As a city, the combined community would also incur the extra expense of providing services in both official languages, now required of cities under New Brunswick law. And there is no assurance that as a city the area would be in line for any more funding. Federal grants are specific to a project - not to the status of a community.

When University of Victoria economist Dr. Robert Bish reviewed the 1998 amalgamation process in the Saint John area, he agreed not combining the eight valley communities into one had been the right decision. In his report, he said the two towns are likely to provide a better mix of taxes and services, and be more significant rivals for the location of future development than a single municipality.

"As two separate municipalities, Rothesay and Quispamsis are able to compete with each other as well as co-operate where mutually beneficial," he wrote.

There are some who agree.

Quispamsis councillor Daryl Bishop, whose brother is the Rothesay mayor, said both towns, as separate entities, are experiencing growth. And while they do share some similarities, the two towns are quite different.

He looks no further than to how the two communities approach business development. When Wal-Mart was looking to establish on Millennium Drive in Rothesay, the town decided it wasn't the right fit for its community. Meanwhile, Quispamsis has been busy luring new business to its end of the same stretch of road.

"Rothesay is an older, established conservative type of town which dates back quite a bit," he said. "Until recently it has been discouraging commercial development and keeping everything traditional whereas Quispam has always been the community that was going forward with whatever commercial enterprise was coming."

Coun. Bishop doesn't believe amalgamation is warranted at this time.

"Sometime in the future, I think that would probably be the right thing to do," he said. "I don't think it's the right thing to do today. Bigger is not always better."

While amalgamation could be good for the valley, Rothesay councillor Terry Kilfoil doesn't think it will happen in the next 10 years.

"I think we have a lot of capable people in both towns that would make things work. It would be a good thing if it happened, but I don't see it happening in the near future."

Others think it should be a factor in the upcoming election.

"I think we need to demonstrate in this next election that we have councils that are willing to work together to resolve our issues," said Quispamsis Deputy Mayor Murray Driscoll. "Once we see that we can work together and can resolve issues, then I think there is a chance - and I would prefer to use the word merger rather than amalgamation. "¦ People draw lines with amalgamation."

"I think the people are all ready to bring us together. I think the councils have to get on stream and have directions from the community, from the grassroots: Get on with this program and get our towns together and start working in a very co-operatively way for the benefit of the valley."

Bill Bishop, the Rothesay mayor, is not so sure it should be an issue in the spring election in which he will be running again. But it definitely should be something that the new elected councils should consider.

"If I were the mayor, I would be in favour of sitting down with Quispamsis and opening discussions."

Maloney agrees, but he thinks the issue needs to be driven by the residents.

"I think it has to come from a plebiscite. "¦ But I think the results would be very positive. I'd be very surprised if they weren't."

Whatever the outcome, the boundaries between Quispamsis and Rothesay are invisible if not artificial.

On a Monday last month, the deputy mayor of Quispamsis had coffee with the mayor of Rothesay in the town of Rothesay. The week before, they had dined together in Quispamsis. Two brothers sit on opposite councils - Bill Bishop as the mayor of Rothesay and Daryl as a Quispamsis councillor. Residents cross town boundaries to attend church, go to hockey games, play at parks and beaches and shop at each other's retail stores.

"Most people don't know when they are in one town or the other," said Mayor Bishop. "That's why I say it would not be rocket science to amalgamate the two."
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1564  
Old Posted Jan 2, 2008, 3:45 PM
Alberta Bound's Avatar
Alberta Bound Alberta Bound is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 101
Saint John gets its swagger back
With an LNG terminal, pipeline, nuclear power and possibly another refinery, the city is on a roll


Special to The Globe and Mail

January 2, 2008

SAINT JOHN -- When Halifax-based Floating Pipeline Co. Inc., which makes modules for transporting compressed natural gas, began operations in the summer of 2006, it decided to establish its plant in Saint John, largely because it was able to secure a manufacturing plant in the city's port.

"The port played a big role," said president Len Thompson in an interview. "It's ice-free and it has capacity. That port is underutilized, but I don't see it being that way for long." What Mr. Thompson and his colleagues did not envisage 18 months ago was that their new base of operation was at the cusp of declaring itself the energy hub of the Maritimes. The title might seem meaningless, were it not backed up with major energy projects worth about $2.4-billion now under development, and proposals potentially costing a further $11-billion to $14-billion. That investment in hard assets is being reinforced by the development of institutions focused on the energy industry.

The effect has been that Saint John, a blue-collar city long known for its refinery and pulp and paper mill, is now regaining a swagger unknown since the end of the frigate construction project at Saint John Shipbuilding in the 1990s. Community leaders are focused on maintaining the growth of energy industries. Other segments of the economy such as housing, construction and hotels are thriving.

Though the energy plays in Saint John are varied - from liquefied natural gas to nuclear power - there is one main reason why all this development is happening in this particular city. It is the powerful Irving family. Irving Oil Ltd., wholly owned by the descendants of K.C. Irving, set everything in motion three years ago when it proposed converting a brownfield site into a liquefied natural gas regasification plant. Competing against two other proposals in Nova Scotia, the Irving project was the first - and so far only - project under construction with a named supplier of natural gas.

In 2005, Irving said the LNG would be supplied by Spanish energy giant Repsol YPF SA, which ended up taking a 75-per-cent stake in the $750-million Canaport LNG project. Irving Oil holds the remaining 25 per cent.

The prospects for Canaport LNG are so strong that the partnership announced in September it will build a third 160,000-cubic-metre LNG storage container adjacent to the two originally planned. The terminal is due to begin operations this year and is designed for a peak capacity of 1.2 billion cubic feet of liquefied natural gas a day.

In the eyes of Saint John Mayor Norm McFarlane, the development of the LNG terminal was the event that ignited the frenzy of energy developments. It led directly to the development of the $350-million Brunswick Pipeline, which is now being built by Halifax-based Emera Inc., the parent company of Nova Scotia Power Inc. Due for completion in 2008, the pipeline will carry deliquefied natural gas from Canaport to the Maine border.

In an interview in his office overlooking the port, Mr. McFarlane noted the benefits of the Canaport project include the fact that it has brought Repsol, one of the 10 largest oil and gas companies in the world, to Saint John, increasing its international exposure, but also that a local company is investing in the city's development.

"It's a good sign that people in our community own assets in our community," Mr. McFarlane said.

"Irving Oil is big for us. They (the Irving family) have lived here for years and they'll always live here."

The Irving legacy may create another project that dwarfs Canaport, for Irving Oil is working on a proposal to build a second refinery in the city, a 300,000-barrels-per-day facility that would produce gasoline, diesel and possibly jet fuel. Irving is now carrying out the environmental impact studies and is in discussions with international oil companies, seeking a partner with which to develop the refinery.

"We will need to attract a partner to do this," said Kevin Scott, the director of refining growth with Irving Oil, in an interview. Given the size of the project, with a $7-billion to $10-billion construction cost, any partner would have to bring deep pockets, experience in the oil business and a vision of working with the community to build a long-term project, Mr. Scott said.

"What we have right now is a location that is well-positioned with an ice-free, deep-water port, and project execution experience," he said. "You have to have all those ingredients." The preliminary timetable now calls for the project to begin construction in 2010 with most building to take place in 2011-2014, and commissioning of the plant due for 2014.

The Globe and Mail reported recently that the Irving family is negotiating a breakup of its diversified holdings, in part because of a clash of ambitions between cousins Kenneth and Jim Irving Jr. Though Mr. Scott would not comment on the reports, he said any talks are unlikely to jeopardize the second refinery. "Our company is always evolving and we don't foresee problems," he said.

It's worth noting Irving is not the only New Brunswick company investing heavily in energy plays in the city. New Brunswick Power, the provincial government-owned electric utility, is now refurbishing its 635-megawatt Point Lepreau nuclear power plant to the tune of $1.4-billion, which is due to be complete in 2009.

What's more, a group of companies, including Atomic Energy of Canada Ltd., is studying the feasibility of a second nuclear reactor at the site with a capacity of 1,085 megawatts and a price tag of about $4-billion. If it goes ahead, it could be producing electricity for the New England market by 2016.

Tim Curry, the president of the Atlantica Centre for Energy, said that if the project proceeds, New Brunswick could be producing a total of 4,400 megawatts of electricity within a decade. That is almost double the current electrical production of Nova Scotia, even though that province has about 25 per cent more people than New Brunswick. (Nova Scotia will add electrical capacity in the next nine years, largely through wind power.) Like the natural gas and oil refinery projects, the new electricity projects target the U.S. Northeast, which has huge demand for energy, with New England alone forecasting a 6,400-megawatt shortage between 2015 and 2018.

The Atlantica Centre itself is a sign of the changing energy landscape in Saint John. It began as an umbrella group for the energy industry and has evolved into a group promoting the energy industry in Atlantica - the region encompassing the U.S. north of Boston and Canada east of the St. Lawrence River. The development of energy institutions in Saint John got a further boost when the government of Premier Shawn Graham moved the provincial energy department from Fredericton to Saint John.

The effects of Saint John's energy boom are apparent. The city's economy has added 7,300 jobs in the 12 months to November, an increase of 10 per cent in the labour force, though the unemployment rate has remained largely unchanged due to an increase in the participation rate. And energy projects in southern New Brunswick are the main reason the Atlantic Provinces Economic Council is projecting the province's GDP will increase 2.7 per cent in 2008, up from an estimated 2.2 per cent growth in 2007. Such proposed mega-projects as the second refinery and nuclear generator could further accelerate growth in the coming years.

Mayor McFarlane said a great deal of poverty exists in his city, and city council wants to ensure the energy boom allows poorer people to get the training they need to land better-paying jobs.

*****

Irving-fuelled boom

Under construction

Canaport LNG terminal
Backer: Repsol, Irving Oil
Cost: $750-million
Completion: 2008

Brunswick Pipeline
Backer: Emera Inc.
Cost: $350-million
Completion: 2008

Point Lepreau plant
Backer: N.B. Power
Cost: $1.4-billion
Completion: 2009

Proposed
New refinery
Backer: Irving Oil
Est. cost: $7- to $10-billion
Est. completion: 2014

2nd Point Lepreau reactor
Backer: AECL, others
Estimated cost: $4-billion
Est. completion: 2016

Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1565  
Old Posted Jan 2, 2008, 5:25 PM
PersonPlaceorThing's Avatar
PersonPlaceorThing PersonPlaceorThing is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Saint John
Posts: 467
Quote:
Originally Posted by magee_b View Post
KENNEBECASIS city?
Local government Quispamsis, Rothesay mayors feel merging to become N.B.'s fourth-largest city would be a good thing
This seems like a good idea. With the shared taxes of the community additional services could be possible.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1566  
Old Posted Jan 2, 2008, 6:08 PM
kwajo's Avatar
kwajo kwajo is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Uptown, Saint John
Posts: 1,686
I wasn't in favour of amalgamation back in the 90s (Fairvale shall live forever! lol), but since then the communities have blurred the lines between them so much, and their councils been so fierce in their rivalry, that I think a single municipality would make more sense now. I mean who wouldn't want to be the 4th largest city in the province with 28,000+ happy citizens?

Also, it's great to see the Globe and Mail have a couple articles focusing on SJ in the past couple weeks, both being overwhelmingly positive. This kind of media attention will go a long way to helping restore SJ's once proud reputation. The optimism within the city over the past 16 months has really taken off and civic pride has been rejuvenated, now it's time to get the rest of the country to believe in us again too.


Oh, and I'm very much against tearing down the Synagogue. It would be a huge mistake IMO.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1567  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2008, 1:15 AM
PostModernPrometheus's Avatar
PostModernPrometheus PostModernPrometheus is offline
Harbour Passage User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Greater Saint John, NB
Posts: 637
Quote:
Originally Posted by magee_b View Post
KENNEBECASIS city?
Local government Quispamsis, Rothesay mayors feel merging to become N.B.'s fourth-largest city would be a good thing

Hmmm.....interesting article....In theory, merging the two municipalities would make a lot of sense (improved service efficiency, sharing more resources, etc, etc); that being said, the Towns *are* very different in their philosophies...there would be a great deal of growing pains if this were to actually occur....i grew up in the village of Renforth, and with amalgamation comes a diffusion of a community's identity...i'm not sure how well that might sit with long time residents of each community....
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1568  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2008, 3:03 PM
michael_d40 michael_d40 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: New Brunswick
Posts: 823
this interesting article in the paper today.

I say, Get rid of the damn thing already and be done with it Especially after ready the article. Enough is enough now.


"Doesn't matter to them"
Controversy Head of Jewish community can't understand why anyone is concerned about demolition of city's synagogue

Telegraph-Journal
Published Thursday January 3rd, 2008
Appeared on page C1

SAINT JOHN - The head of the local Jewish community says he believes the city's synagogue will be demolished after it's purchased by the city, even though Mayor Norm McFarlane said Tuesday it will remain standing.

It doesn't matter one way or the other to Norman Hamburg and others in the Jewish community.

Hamburg, the president of the Shaarei Zedek congregation, says he's surprised the synagogue has become a focal point in discussions surrounding plans for the proposed police-justice complex slated for the uptown.

The Jewish community decided several years ago to sell the aging facility and Hamburg says if his community has made peace with its decision, he doesn't understand why others would be so concerned about the fate of the 140-year-old structure.

"We're in the midst of negotiations for the sale," said Hamburg. "If they do acquire the buildings, which I hope happens, it's not up to us whether they do or they don't (set up a date with the wrecking ball). I can't imagine why they would try and save it though, because we will definitely be looking for a new home for ourselves.

"I don't understand. If we're willing to sell the property to the city - and we understand what they're planning - why everybody is so concerned about (the synagogue).

"It's a big building, it's like many of the old church-type buildings in the city. I don't know what they would use that for. Certainly it wouldn't be in our hands any more.

"We're definitely hoping that we're very close to finalizing a deal with the city and we will no longer be connected with those two buildings (the synagogue and the Jewish Historical Museum) and it won't be up to us.

"I'm not sure what the concern is. It's not really a heritage building. It was our home for many, many years, but there's a lot of work that would need to be done. I don't understand the controversy about that. If we were crying about it, maybe there would be a reason."

Hamburg said the city's Jewish community has struggled with the costs involved with maintaining the structure, which was built more than 140 years ago and once served as many as 1,400 members. With fewer than 100 members today, the community needs to find a more practical solution to its worshipping needs.

"The Jewish community realizes that we have to do something different to maintain our community and that's why we're willing to sell," he said.

"Four years ago, we made the decision to try and sell. We were looking down the road at what the future holds for our congregation and I don't believe there are very many in the congregation that oppose what we're doing. They realize that a building that's made to sit over 500 people is way too much building for our congregation and it's very expensive to maintain.

"We have to look for something that allows us to look ahead another 15 to 20 years. We can only take that step after we complete this deal and hopefully it won't be too long before this deal is complete."

"We're going to miss our old home, and it's a beautiful old building, but it's an old building. It was built as a church in 1865 and we bought it in 1918 and it was (renovated) back in the 1960s and made more sound than it was, but it's a very old building with big windows and it's not a building for us today.

"(The sale) is a good thing for both parties and I hope that the city carries on with the plan. I read about all the concern that seems to be there and if our community isn't concerned, I don't know why anyone else would be."

McFarlane annoyed some citizens earlier this week when he said buildings purchased to make way for the north of Union development would be demolished, no matter what common council heard during public consultation sessions. The mayor later clarified that the synagogue is not going to be demolished because it isn't needed for the development.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1569  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2008, 5:10 PM
thefishingnut thefishingnut is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Quispamsis, NB
Posts: 286
As much as I hate to see beautiful churches torn down, the reality is that they can be huge financial drains on shrinking religious communities. I took a look around to understand the use of the Synagogue a bit more, and it seems that it isn't even used in the winter for worship. In most cases as well, the buildings just can't be redeveloped into something which is both useful for the new owner, and retains the historical aspects we'd want to keep.

Based on what the Jewish community feels about the buildings, I don't see any practical alternative other than to demolish and move on.

When I was looking for background material, I did come across a web page with lots of nice pictures of historical buildings in Saint John that some might be interested in.

http://www.travelphotobase.com/s/NBJ.HTM
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1570  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2008, 8:54 PM
PostModernPrometheus's Avatar
PostModernPrometheus PostModernPrometheus is offline
Harbour Passage User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Greater Saint John, NB
Posts: 637
Quote:
Originally Posted by thefishingnut View Post
As much as I hate to see beautiful churches torn down, the reality is that they can be huge financial drains on shrinking religious communities. I took a look around to understand the use of the Synagogue a bit more, and it seems that it isn't even used in the winter for worship. In most cases as well, the buildings just can't be redeveloped into something which is both useful for the new owner, and retains the historical aspects we'd want to keep.

Based on what the Jewish community feels about the buildings, I don't see any practical alternative other than to demolish and move on.

When I was looking for background material, I did come across a web page with lots of nice pictures of historical buildings in Saint John that some might be interested in.

http://www.travelphotobase.com/s/NBJ.HTM

True...if even those who own the building are not opposed to it being torn down to make space for development, that makes a huge difference...I guess my earlier posts/concerns reflect more the idea that there are potential conflicting ideas for how older buildings with potential historical/cultural value would fit into the grand redevelopment plans & the need for public consultation as opposed to unilateral decision making...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1571  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2008, 10:18 PM
kwajo's Avatar
kwajo kwajo is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Uptown, Saint John
Posts: 1,686
It is true that Churches/Religious Halls are difficult heritage buildings to preserve, because they are difficult to convert to other uses if they no longer serve an active congregation. If the Synagogue were any other type of 140 year old building, it would be far easier to re-develop the interior to serve as office space or housing, but alas it is not.

Let's just hope that whatever they tear it down to make way for is worth it. I don't want a part of our heritage destroyed to make way for a generic pre-fab structure or the like.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1572  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2008, 10:37 PM
reddog794's Avatar
reddog794 reddog794 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 198
I'm all for developing un-usable sites, but what we are forgetting that any place of worship is accoustically designed. So taking an old synagogue, or church, and converting it to a conference centre, isn't too far of an idea. It would remove the costs of having to put an auditorium into the new Justice Complex, if they did just that with the historical 140 year old building. (a very beautiful building at that.) Just my 2 pennies.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1573  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2008, 1:55 AM
random11's Avatar
random11 random11 is offline
Believer in the future
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Saint John
Posts: 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostModernPrometheus View Post
True...if even those who own the building are not opposed to it being torn down to make space for development, that makes a huge difference...I guess my earlier posts/concerns reflect more the idea that there are potential conflicting ideas for how older buildings with potential historical/cultural value would fit into the grand redevelopment plans & the need for public consultation as opposed to unilateral decision making...

Public consultation is important after all, we still live in a democratic state the last time I checked. Having said that, it is crucial to note that in order to move ahead there will be a number of controversial decisions that will need to be made - by somebody. These decisions will often not be popular. I think we need to be sensible: The Union Street North area has been deteriorating for years and everybody knows that it is not attractive to new business or residential development as it currently exists. This is a prime area to develop and we must be open to change. For decades, Saint John has been known as a "blocked wall" to investors and developers from everywhere. This is our opportunity to state that we welcome the future and that we are indeed open for business. Make no mistake: Developers are watching how this whole deal plays out. We must assert ourselves as open for business.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1574  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2008, 7:01 AM
Seely32's Avatar
Seely32 Seely32 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Uptown
Posts: 490
140 yr old structures are hard to come by. It would be shame to see this building be demolished to make way for a parking garage. I am sure renovations could be done and a creative archtiect could include this building in thier design scheme. I am also sure this would all go over alot better if our government was a little more transparent but that is neither here nor thier. Well whatever happens as long as their is some height to what ever replaces it then I will be appeased to a degree.

On further note where the hell is this Cruiship welcome center I think some attention needs to be pointed towards this as well.
__________________
Every man's life ends the same way. It is only the details of how he lived and how he died that distinguish one man from another.
--Ernest Hemingway
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1575  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2008, 7:06 AM
Seely32's Avatar
Seely32 Seely32 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Uptown
Posts: 490
Quote:
Originally Posted by SJTOKO View Post
I agree, most of the buildings can go but I personally like the old CFBC building and I don't want to see it go... As for the Synagogue, with all of the money flowing back into Saint John maybe the Jewish population will flourish again, I say keep it...
Hey we are starting to look like hollywood with the spotlights.
__________________
Every man's life ends the same way. It is only the details of how he lived and how he died that distinguish one man from another.
--Ernest Hemingway
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1576  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2008, 8:27 AM
Helladog's Avatar
Helladog Helladog is offline
Unregistered Loser
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NB
Posts: 1,412
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seely32 View Post
Hey we are starting to look like hollywood with the spotlights.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1577  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2008, 4:09 PM
michael_d40 michael_d40 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: New Brunswick
Posts: 823
Quote:
Originally Posted by SJTOKO View Post
I agree, most of the buildings can go but I personally like the old CFBC building and I don't want to see it go... As for the Synagogue, with all of the money flowing back into Saint John maybe the Jewish population will flourish again, I say keep it...

Yeah, the jewish population might flourish again. but the jewish population DOESNT WANT IT.... So explain to me, why should we force them to be there, when they dont want to? Seems odd to me.
I say get rid of it...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1578  
Old Posted Jan 5, 2008, 5:00 AM
SJTOKO SJTOKO is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by michael_d40 View Post
Yeah, the jewish population might flourish again. but the jewish population DOESNT WANT IT.... So explain to me, why should we force them to be there, when they dont want to? Seems odd to me.
I say get rid of it...
SEXACTLY! Since when have Saint Johners been sensitive towards ethnic and religious minorities. Pelting immigrants with eggs and cheesburgers and yelling racial slurs is the Saint John way.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1579  
Old Posted Jan 5, 2008, 1:10 PM
thefishingnut thefishingnut is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Quispamsis, NB
Posts: 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by SJTOKO View Post
SEXACTLY! Since when have Saint Johners been sensitive towards ethnic and religious minorities. Pelting immigrants with eggs and cheesburgers and yelling racial slurs is the Saint John way.
That was uncalled for. There is a small group of idiots in every city, Saint John is no exception.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1580  
Old Posted Jan 5, 2008, 3:32 PM
PostModernPrometheus's Avatar
PostModernPrometheus PostModernPrometheus is offline
Harbour Passage User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Greater Saint John, NB
Posts: 637
Princess Street will get royal treatment
Renewal: Following complaints, city agrees to fast-track upgrade of important uptown route
Mazerolle
Telegraph-Journal
Published Saturday January 5th, 2008
Appeared on page B3


SAINT JOHN - A business owner who had been critical of the state of Princess Street is thrilled the city will be treating the uptown boulevard like royalty in 2008.

The operations and engineering department will be working with Saint John Water and Saint John Energy to give the western-most sections of Princess Street an approximately $2-million makeover, including street reconstruction, water, wastewater, and stormwater work, and underground wiring.

"They're going to do stage 1 and 2 at the same time, which is great," said Peter Smit, a building and business owner who has poured about $100,000 into the historic Brodie building, which also houses his happinez wine bar.

The city had originally talked about fixing the area from Sydney Street to Prince William Street from 2008 to 2011, a one-block-at-a-time approach that had Smit and the owners of Hayward & Warwick, one block away, each hoping their section would be done first.

Commissioner of operations and engineering Paul Groody said earlier this month the city decided it would be less expensive to complete the area from Charlotte Street to Prince William Street all at once.

Smit said he's happy the construction will take place more quickly than originally planned.

"If you look at the whole street, the street is in very bad shape," he said. "It's a street where you see a fair amount of new businesses coming up at the moment, all bringing something new to the downtown of Saint John, which I think is fantastic."

Relatively new visitors to the street include a martini bar and the headquarters for the Saint John Theatre Company, while long-standing members of the community include Hayward & Warwick and the Irish pub O'Leary's.

"It's really a main artery for the downtown core," Smit said, adding that the reconstruction tied in well with waterfront development and Saint John's cruise ship industry.

Smith hopes to coordinate the repointing of his foundation with the work on Princess Street, and says he's already thinking ahead to how the reconstruction will affect his business.

"Of course [the construction] kills business for the time being, for the time that they're going to do it," he said. "So we have to think of that as well. How can we make it more attractive? How can we make it, instead of a negative thing, a beautiful future? In other words, it's going to be fantastic in 2009, but it's going to be a tough year for people on the street. So what can we do to make it positive? There's a fair amount of things to be thinking of in the next coming months."
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Atlantic Provinces
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 1:47 AM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.