Millennium Line - Evergreen Extension | Completed

[deasine]

Originally Posted by paradigm4

• Only faster because it's grade separated. Course, LRT could be grade separated too, but the whole point, beyond it being cheaper, is it's a whole lot nicer looking than overhead guideways from SkyTrain. There's a reason Surrey wants LRT, and Richmond originally also wanted LRT.
• Got me there... But I bet the trains themselves would be cheaper on LRT, just because there's more competition because more manufacturers make LRT vehicles, versus SkyTrain where you're locked into Bombardier. And from that sense, we could get more vehicles cheaper, and faster.

Notice a lot of the sections of the evergreen line are seperated... and when it's overhead... we are not only looking at the grey overhead guideways, but also the overhead wires. Yes, in a sense that LRT when on the road looks better than SkyTrain overhead (or perhaps at-grade), but there are many ways in making SkyTrain guideway look nice. Richmond is making their guideways look better by adding art and planting around columns... Coquitlam/Port-Moody/Burnaby can be doing the same: adding community art, planting, etc.

SkyTrains are more expensive. But, we are purchasing SkyTrains not only for the Evergreen Line itself, but the Expo Line and the Millennium Line. We are adding capacity to the entire network and not just one line if it was SkyTrain.

[Stingray2004]

Interesting tidbit regarding the Evergreen Line from the 2008 Report on B.C. Budget Consultations. Hopefully the commentary therein will be taken into consideration when final system selection takes place:
_________________________________________________________________

Evergreen Line

The Committee heard requests from the Tri-Cities region that a rapid transit system is a top priority. The public is asking all levels of government — local, regional, provincial, and federal — to come to the table to fund this crucial transportation infrastructure project.

While the majority of submissions on this topic favoured any form of light rail to Coquitlam Centre, we also heard several concerns from the affected communities that the proposed light rail option connecting to Lougheed Town Centre would not provide an effective alternative to the automobile in terms of travel times.

Here are some of the comments we heard on this topic.

“Transportation infrastructure for the northeast sector deserves the highest priority. It is an urgent need that a forward-thinking government recognizes this and deals with the problem. Now is the time to spend the money on the future sustainability of the fifth-largest, and growing, community in B.C. We are experiencing traffic gridlock today; by tomorrow we will be fundamentally inaccessible. We need a guaranteed investment in our future.” (Tri-Cities Chamber of Commerce).

“Finance rapid transit — not slow mass transit such as the Evergreen Line.” (Andrew Kirk, Port Moody).

“Build the upcoming Evergreen Line so that it is compatible with the Millenium Line and so that one does not need to change trains at the Lougheed station.” (George Kovacic, Burnaby).
_________________________________________________________________

[Bert]

Let's try to get the Evergreen cost estimates straight:
$670 Million (2003)
$800 Million (October 2004)
$953 Million (July 2006)
$970 Million (October 2006)

There's an article in the Vancouver Sun today talking about BC's expected rate of construction inflation: 10% in 2007 and 11% in 2008. Tbat means we are looking at a current $1.1 billion price tag for this streetcar-like LRT; and the funding gap is growing all the time - it was about $400 million, now it's $500 million. Bear in mind that the $970 million estimate was given before the detailed design phase that appears to be stalled, and which will quite likely result in further cost increases.

Note that the line's travel time also experienced inflation from its 2003 form to its current form - the value of this line just keeps getting worse.

[Stingray2004]

Once the Evergreen Line is connected to Coquitlam Town Centre, conceptually it may eventually be extended to Maple Ridge with the provision made for rapid transit across the new Pitt River Bridge.

But would such an extension even be feasible?

The problem is that from Coquitlam Town Centre eastward along the Lougheed Hwy, not much development exists (relatively speaking) and the line would traverse mostly farmland with a likely stop at Harris Road (Pitt Meadows), which is also a low-density/farming area.

This route would traverse at least 11 km (the outskirts of Maple Ridge) where the Golden Ears Bridge connector will meet the Lougheed.

Frankly, I have my daruthers as to whether such a line is even practical or feasible along that corridor, when one considers optimal transit use along a Skytrain corridor requires numerous density nodes. Perhaps rapid bus service along HOV lanes will suffice.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&hl=en&ge...4,-122.749386&spn=0.199881,0.462799&z=11

[SpongeG]

[IMG]http://media.bclocalnews.com/images/320*183/Evergreen_LRT_art_bw_071121.jpg[/IMG]
Contributed The Evergreen light rail transit line in Coquitlam needs $400 million to be built.

Preferred LRT route down Lougheed

If light rail transit ever comes to Maple Ridge, it will blaze a path down the middle of Lougheed Highway into downtown.

That's assuming TransLink likes the idea, assuming the population is one day large enough to support rapid transit, and assuming the long-promised Evergreen LRT line is built in Coquitlam.

"This is a long way down the road," Maple Ridge Coun. Linda King said Monday.

The Evergreen line hasn't even been built yet. "We need to work more on West Coast Express – because we have West Coast Express."

The Evergreen line, to connect Burnaby to Coquitlam, still needs $400 million before it can proceed.

King said a separate rail line is needed from Mission to the Pitt Meadows station so West Coast Express frequency can increase.

"We need to make it better. We need to make it work for us. We haven't got the density for rapid transit. We're not even close."

Council hired UMA Aecom consultants to look at possible LRT routes. UMA's Bill Lambert offered three suggestions.,

One would follow the B.C. Hydro right-of-way and bike path on the south side of Lougheed Hwy., from the Pitt River Bridge to 200th Street. The new bridge is being built to accommodate LRT.

Then it would run in the median of Lougheed Hwy., to Maple Ridge's town centre. That would be the shortest of the three routes – taking half an hour to go 17 kilometres from Coquitlam exchange, and would have stops in Pitt Meadows on the highway.

A second route would have stops in both Port Coquitlam and Pitt Meadows downtowns, adding another five kilometres and six or seven minutes to the trip.

"Ideally, you want to make a better connection into both Pitt Meadows and Port Coquitlam," Lambert added later.

A third option would see the line swing across Lougheed Hwy. to the new Abernethy connector and from there run east to downtown Maple Ridge. That only would be a few more minutes and kilometres than the first.

Council accepted the report and voted to forward it to TransLink immediately with the hope that light rail to Maple Ridge can become part of TransLink's new long-term plan, now being written.

"I would caution you to hurry. This plan will be done in 30 days," said Mayor Gordy Robson. "Let's get it in there by tomorrow."

But Maple Ridge would have to change before LRT rolled in.

Its population density would have to "significantly increase" to support rapid transit, Lambert said.

As for using the B.C. Hydro right of way: "It's certainly wide enough to accommodate LRT."

He said the regional population – Maple Ridge, Pitt Meadows and Port Coquitlam – would have to reach about 250,000 before LRT becomes viable. Current population of the three cities is about 142,000.

Pitt Meadows Mayor Don MacLean supports LRT along Lougheed Hwy., but said ridership has to be there first.

However, he agrees that transportation corridors have to be identified and protected so planning can start around those corridors.

King wondered if the current restructuring of TransLink would hurt Maple Ridge's chances of getting LRT. But Robson said the reorganization should give the bigger cities less influence in deciding regional transportation.

According to Lambert's report, about 2,500 people currently use the West Coast Express system in Maple Ridge. In Coquitlam, the expected ridership for the Evergreen line is 15,000 – to grow to 25,000 daily by 2031.

The cost for an LRT system would ring in at $65 million per kilometre – about the average for LRT in Canada, he said.

Lambert said if rumours bear out that politicians want to switch the system to the faster, pricier SkyTrain in Coquitlam, per-kilometre costs would be, "well over $100 million – and then some."

Maple Ridge Coun. Al Hogarth wanted LRT to be considered for east of the downtown, noting Mission is about to grow.

Having an LRT terminus in the downtown could lead to congestion, he said. Instead, he said a loop route, involving Mission and Abbotsford should be considered.

That suggestion, as well as notifying neighbouring cities, increasing West Coast Express service and giving buses priority access on Lougheed Hwy., as a precursor to LRT, were all included in the covering letter Maple Ridge will send to TransLink.

Coun. Craig Speirs said Maple Ridge can get away with West Coast Express for awhile, but competition will grow for track time.

Instead, Maple Ridge has to densify aggressively, he added.

However, recent legislation in Ottawa will make it easier for TransLink to get more track time from CP Rail, allowing for more West Coast Express trains.

Lambert, in his report, says Evergreen LRT is more appropriate for Maple Ridge because it's proven technology, integrates easily with surrounding neighbourhoods and fosters investment in the area.

His report also lays out several steps that can be done to prepare for such a system as the population grows:

• improving bus and West Coast Express service;

• making the No. 791 to Braid SkyTrain station more frequent;

• improving community shuttle bus service in rural Maple Ridge;

• designate Lougheed Hwy. as a LRT corridor, and future LRT stations at Laity Street and 203rd Street;

• work with Pitt Meadows, Coquitlam and Port Coquitlam on future transit.

http://www.bclocalnews.com/tri_city_maple_ridge/mapleridgenews/news/11672876.html

[paradigm4]

Hah! A population of 240,000! Whatever! Surrey is double that an we don't have so much as one freakin' B-Line route. There is no way in hell Maple Ridge is getting rapid transit in those councillor's lifetime. Heck, Langley Centre needs it more than Maple Ridge. And just because LRT is a bit cheaper than SkyTrain doesn't mean that every small community, from Mission to Abbotsford and beyond will start getting it's own line. In doing so, we aren't shaping growth or stopping sprawl - we are doing the same thing wrong with highways and duplicating it with rapid transit. Communities need to be complete, and then you wouldn't even have to have an intercity rapid transit line in the first place! /rant

[Stingray2004]

Announcement on the long-awaited Evergreen line within a month

Dec, 20 2007 - 4:10 PM

VANCOUVER/CKNW(AM980) - Transportation minister Kevin Falcon says he'll have an announcement to make in a month or so on when and where the long-awaited Evergreen line to the Coquitlam area will be built.

The premier has already said the Evergreen rapid transit line will be built, but the devil has been in the details---particularly a 400 million dollar gap between what governments have promised so far and the one billion dollar price tag.

But Kevin falcon says he's been working with Ottawa to bring some federal dollars to the project...

"We’ve had some high level discussions about getting their participation and we've had a real good reception, Ottawa’s been great to work with."

And he says a revamped Translink now has more authority to raise its own money.

"Whether it's through fuel tax, property tax, whatever the case may be."

Falcon says he's still nailing down the scope and cost of the project but expects to make an announcement at the end of January.

[mr.x]

But Kevin falcon says he's been working with Ottawa to bring some federal dollars to the project...

Can't wait for the announcement, and i would think Ottawa might insist on Bombardier's ART SkyTrain technology with its funding contribution.

And he says a revamped Translink now has more authority to raise its own money.

"Whether it's through fuel tax, property tax, whatever the case may be."

The fuel tax, property tax, fare increase tax ratio (if one increases, they all have to increase by the same proportion) is flawed....particuarly the fare increases. It's already by far the highest in the country, they should be increasing property and fuel taxes as there's less of an visible impact on cost - further transit fare increases would deter ridership, so much for making transit a viable alternative.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Stingray2004

.....an announcement to make in a month or so on when and where the long-awaited Evergreen line to the Coquitlam area will be built.

Hmmm....

[deasine]

yeah if he said where.... well there are only two viable options: northeast sector and southeast sector. And didn't Kevin Falcon say the evergreen line is not going to be built on southeast sector when he responded to the past rumors about evergreen line going to Surrey?

I want SkyTrain... that's all.... I'm not asking for much =D

[agrant]

Originally Posted by mr.x2

Can't wait for the announcement, and i would think Ottawa might insist on Bombardier's ART SkyTrain technology with its funding contribution.

Bombardier has other light rail vehicle makes and models don't forget. And I doubt it would be Skytrain, because you'd think they'd require more funding than the 400 million. We'll see. I do hope it is Skytrain though, or something that takes much less time than a bus.

[mezzanine]

The tricities need rapid transit, but South Fraser is also in dire need of rapid transit. With all the hubris coming from SF mayors (like rejecting translink's last 25 year plan) maybe they are positioning themselves...

good news, though. The whole evergreen line has been a gong show since the M-line was planned. Why did they build the bby extention first and not the leg to the tricities????

And please, Lord save me if derek corrigan opens his trap again....

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by mezzanine

Why did they build the bby extention first and not the leg to the tricities????

The VCC to Lougheed route was (1) more direct than travelling through Columbia (i.e. if Columbia to Coquitlam was built first) and (2) would not overload the capacity of the Expo Line.
The Lougheed to Columbia was required to tie into the Edmonds operations and maintenance yard (so VCC to Coquitlam couldn't have been built without that leg).
Planning for the Coquitlam Line was well advanced when the Liberals took power - they cancelled it because costs were escalating (although the M-Line as built was under budget).

[mezzanine]

^ but if they built the intial m-line as columbia-lougheed-tricities, then we'd be ahead of ourselves. (There was an old planning map from BC transit posted here that showed this, can't google it though- anybody?) tricities would tie into the edmonds yard. IMO burnaby 'jumped the queue' as they got essentially a duplicate line to the E-line. not that it's a bad thing, it spurred a lot of intensive development in bby, not sure if it's in the GVRD livable district plan. The tricities started to densify before brentwood-burnaby, yet the tricities did not get rapid transit first.

[officedweller]

True enough.
At some point, the prioritiy changed from branching off the Expo Line (i.e. from either Royal Oak via Edmonds or from Columbia) to building the parallel [then LRT] line along Lougheed.
The reasoning was that they needed a second parallel line to service Coquitlam, because the Expo Line would be sent overcapacity if Coquitlam fed into it (at least in the long term). Plus the travel time would be too long.
I also suspect that the phasing was orchestrated that way because if Coquitlam - Columbia route had been built out, then the Lougheed - VCC part could have died, leaving you with an overcapcity Expo line.

I think Phesto posted this originally about the Expo Line circa 1986:



And this is a scan of a brochure I have from the early 90s (note only the Surrey Extension was built. The rest were axed when the NDP entered power (though the marine ferries were replaced with Westcoast Express)).

[WarrenC12]

I thought a lot of the reason the M-Line was built so closely to the E-Line was the arguments between Coquitlam and Bby as to the placement of the line, arguments over lands, etc.

Since we in East Van are so willing to give up our land and/or we aren't given a choice, we now have 2 lines to choose from.

Its a joke when you look at an overhead map.. it looks ridiculous. At least the Canada Line will improve that somewhat.

[officedweller]

The Lougheed route was also enshrined in the Livable Region Strategic Plan. You can see the route in red as part of the "T-Line" for Intermediate Capacity Rapid Transit here. Remember that the "T-Line" was meant to facilitate transit between the TriCities, New West and Surrey - not just downtown Vancouver - in order to have Surrey grow as the "downtown" south of the Fraser River. i.e. even if it was built as LRT, it would have run to Columbia Station for transfers to Surrey. Also remember that under the LRSP, the northeast and Surrey are slated to grow much larger than Richmond (that's why transit was supposed to be built in the NE and Surrey first) - because Richmond is in a flood plain and suscepticble to earthquake damage (and not in the "growth concentration area" under the LRSP - shown in white on the map). So while it may not look pretty on a map (i.e. not evenly radial) - there is reasoning behind it.

[SpongeG]

some say it was because its all NDP voting territory and they are the ones who approved it

[officedweller]

That would have also played a role too in terms of priority (like the Liberals switched it to Richmond when they took over).

[deasine]

We should have just kept the original plans and built them... People today, are still confused of our SkyTrain system (residents who don't frequently use the line). Last night after work, these Surrey residents were wondering how to get back home from downtown. So they thought they took the train to Broadway, transfer to Commercial then take the train to Columbia, transfer to Columbia, then take train to Surrey. I was like huh?!

It would be nice if the 200st. B-Line (express bus) from Langley be extended across the Golden Ears bridge to the West Coast Express station.