The Official Saint John, NB Project Thread - Page 72

PersonPlaceorThing · #**1421** Posted **Nov 30, 2007, 7:28 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwajo

^ What a peculiar article, I can't seem to gauge whether the comments are supposed to be pro-development, or anti-development, because it sounds like a mix of fear mongering and positive pseudo-propaganda. Every statement has a qualifier, every pro has a con and no one seems to have an entirely rosy outlook - and of course Norm chimes in at the end as usual saying that development isn't just for Uptown

At the forum Rocca made it clear that he thought this was going to happen - not that is necessarily should. I doubt the SE with gentrify as fast as he projects.

thefishingnut · #**1422** Posted **Nov 30, 2007, 7:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwajo

^ What a peculiar article, I can't seem to gauge whether the comments are supposed to be pro-development, or anti-development, because it sounds like a mix of fear mongering and positive pseudo-propaganda. Every statement has a qualifier, every pro has a con and no one seems to have an entirely rosy outlook - and of course Norm chimes in at the end as usual saying that development isn't just for Uptown

I don't think it was intended to take a position for or against development. I think the message is that sometimes there are downstream issues which need to be taken into consideration with development. The development is good, but we shouldn't forget that we (society) still need to keep in mind the people being moved out, in addition to the people moving in.

PostModernPrometheus · #**1423** Posted **Nov 30, 2007, 9:41 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by michael_d40

Projects will displace poor, developer says

Khalid Malik
Telegraph-Journal
Published Friday November 30th, 2007
Appeared on page C3

SAINT JOHN - A well-known Saint John developer painted a vision of the uptown area 10 to 15 years from now that made many people in his audience feel uneasy.

John Rocca, president of the Rocca Group, said future developments in the southern peninsula will make housing expensive in the area and poor people will be displaced.

"I am raising the question that there are a lot of poor people living in the area now and how they are going to benefit from this (projected) growth," he said.

"If we do not become active in managing the growth, there will be less of the positive benefits and more of the negative consequences," he explained in an interview following his presentation.

I think this article raises some very good points....we have a large proportion of the population living below the poverty line...as development proceeds, and costs of living in certain parts of town escalate, these people will no longer be able to afford to live there....I think this is a situation that has occurred in Halifax over the past 10-20 years...I lived there in the late 90's off Spring Garden Road, and I recently visited the city....new condos, higher rent/purchase prices = those without money are drifting further and further away from the core of the city.

The end result, and one that perhaps Rocca is alluding to, is getting densely populated run down pockets of the poor and working poor cropping up between developped areas of the city....

I think the tone of the article was one of realism.....the more we develop, and the more expensive / inaccessible living becomes, the more problems we as a city will run into....

Helladog · #**1424** Posted **Dec 1, 2007, 1:45 AM**

Isn't that the Ellerdale project for the bottom of Water street. It had to be scaled back to 6 floors 'cause neighbours didn't want to loose their harbour view. Unless he intends to start again, it really wont be twin "towers".

Click

michael_d40 · #**1425** Posted **Dec 1, 2007, 5:05 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helladog

Isn't that the Ellerdale project for the bottom of Water street. It had to be scaled back to 6 floors 'cause neighbours didn't want to loose their harbour view. Unless he intends to start again, it really wont be twin "towers".

Click

Thats what i was thinkin to, but perhaps he has different plans for it now?
Time will tell i guess

GUB · #**1426** Posted **Dec 1, 2007, 5:39 AM**

Seems bizarre that a local developper has so much clout.
I realize the man has been very proactive in recruiting businesses to the area etc. which should be applauded , but the issues he raises regarding poverty need to be adressed primarily by planners/city officials.

PostModernPrometheus · #**1427** Posted **Dec 1, 2007, 1:52 PM**

Agreed.

PostModernPrometheus · #**1428** Posted **Dec 1, 2007, 2:18 PM**

Councillor wants blueprint to ensure poor keep homes

John Mazerolle
Telegraph-Journal
Published Friday November 30th, 2007
Appeared on page C1

SAINT JOHN - Coun. Peter McGuire wants to ensure that the so-called 'Benefits Blueprint' meant to deal with rapid growth in Saint John deals not only with the expected influx of people, but with the poor people who could be pushed out of their current homes.

"You've heard politicians say no one's going to be left behind," McGuire says. "The way things are going now people are going to be left behind."

The discussion arose during a Vision 2015 committee meeting involving McGuire, Coun. Glen Tait, Deputy Mayor Michelle Hooton, Mayor Norm McFarlane, and deputy city manager Andrew Beckett. Beckett said during a meeting Tuesday that the people behind the blueprint project suggested the city, with possible funding from the province, could continue to build on the work it is doing.

The blueprint group had focused solely on housing as it relates to rapid growth, Beckett said, but it would make sense for the city to take the study one step further and come up with a complete housing strategy. McGuire and Hooton both had concerns about whether solutions would be offered to help fend off gentrification - converting inner-city housing into an area of middle-class residences. There was some discussion about whether accepting the group's suggestion would be letting them "off the hook."

The Benefits Blueprint project, unveiled earlier this month, promises to look at poverty issues, training and education, business and supplier development, infrastructure, arts and culture, workforce planning and housing.

Toronto-based Hardy Stevenson and Associates has been hired to look at ways the Saint John area can capitalize on the economic benefits of a situation experienced by Fort McMurray, Alta., without repeating the same planning mistakes.

McGuire said the background provided by the blueprint group was solid, but that he wants to see more responses to the issues.

"You've laid out our challenges," he said. "Where are the solutions?"

Tait, who is on the blueprint's advisory group, said it's always been his understanding that those sorts of concerns will be on the agenda, and McFarlane said McGuire may be jumping the gun.

The mayor suggested the blueprint group speak directly to the city, instead of through Beckett, to see exactly what they are planning and what they are suggesting the municipality do.

Bob Manning, head of the blueprints project, said Wednesday that the group is well aware of affordable housing concerns and will make sure McGuire is better informed about what the group is doing.

He said that anecdotally he's hearing the city is already feeling the pinch, and that it will have an effect on such places as the Salvation Army.

"We're going to try to put a plan out in front of it before it becomes acute," Manning said.

random11 · #**1429** Posted **Dec 1, 2007, 8:40 PM**

AIRPORT STILL LEADS THE PACK FOR PASSENGER GROWTH

30 November 2007

For the sixth consecutive month, Saint John Airport leads all airports in the Atlantic region for passenger growth. Year-to-date, the passenger count checks in at 27.5% higher than the first ten months of 2006, and is on pace to set an all-time record for annual traffic.

Angela McLean, Manager of Regulatory Affairs for the Airport, reports that so far this year, domestic passenger growth at the Airport ranks second in the entire country, next to Fort McMurray.

The additional traffic can be attributed to capacity added this year by Air Canada, SunWing, and WestJet.

“We fully expect this growth trend to continue, as Air Canada recently announced they will be upgrading to larger planes for Montreal flights”, states Mrs. McLean. “In addition, WestJet now offers year-round service to Toronto, and SunWing has committed to returning for the seasonal sun destinations of Cancun and La Romana next spring. We continue to seek new airline partners, and are looking forward to an exciting future here at the Airport.”

kwajo · #**1430** Posted **Dec 1, 2007, 10:53 PM**

I found a photo of one particular proposal for the area North of Union Street (courthouse, etc.). Interesting to note that the ABEC and the Synagogue are still there, which were my main concerns, and they seem to want to fill the parking lots and remove some of the decrepit buildings.

Interestingly, I got this from a website of people completely opposed to the development. It's always funny how the people against something always have better information than those in favour lol

Alberta Bound · #**1431** Posted **Dec 1, 2007, 11:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwajo

I found a photo of one particular proposal for the area North of Union Street (courthouse, etc.). Interesting to note that the ABEC and the Synagogue are still there, which were my main concerns, and they seem to want to fill the parking lots and remove some of the decrepit buildings.

Interestingly, I got this from a website of people completely opposed to the development. It's always funny how the people against something always have better information than those in favour lol

That looks great. Too bad there wasn't a little more detail. Its kind of hard to tell what changes are in that rendering further down Union.

kwajo · #**1432** Posted **Dec 2, 2007, 12:32 AM**

I think this was from that meeting the other day with Rocca talking about SJ in 10 years.

I am really optimistic about this development now, if this photo is an accurate representation of it. For one thing, I see a series of mid-rise buildings on the North side of Union between Hazen Ave. and Coburg/Charlotte Street, which would be just a fantastic improvement over what's there now. Plus there seems to be a fair bit of green space, even on rooftops of the new buildings (though that may just be colour choice in the rendering). All of my important buildings are still there (it even looks like the Carnegie building is connected directly to a new structure, perhaps an expansion of cultural space?), and the new structures seem to blend well with the skyline. I say get this done, unless there are undisclosed details that are worse than anticipated.

kwajo · #**1433** Posted **Dec 2, 2007, 1:15 AM**

This is the closest angle I could find of what the site currently looks like (I tried to crop it to approximately match the rendering). As you can see, there are a lot of empty lots in the area, even along Dorchester, which adds to the appeal of redeveloping the whole thing (as long as it is done with care for the current residents)

PostModernPrometheus · #**1434** Posted **Dec 2, 2007, 1:39 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwajo

I found a photo of one particular proposal for the area North of Union Street (courthouse, etc.). Interesting to note that the ABEC and the Synagogue are still there, which were my main concerns, and they seem to want to fill the parking lots and remove some of the decrepit buildings.

Wow....what a gorgeous conceptual model....much better use of the blocks around union / wellington....looks like a lot of mid rise residential structures...I hadnt seen anything like this before...very exciting!

Ottawa · #**1435** Posted **Dec 2, 2007, 2:06 AM**

Very nice model. I would like to see more detail but at first blush, it looks like very good use of the current space without submitting us to boring building blocks. I hope the rooftops actually do have some green space. That would be a very nice touch. I agree that they appear to have saved the pertinent historic or otherwise important structures. I would expect no less really.

PS - it looks like they are leaving the Aliant building alone. That may have been a nod to the historic society...

Alberta Bound · #**1436** Posted **Dec 2, 2007, 2:14 AM**

A little rough but you get the idea. Maybe someone with skills could overlay the model better.

It really adds a whole new dimension to the high density urban core of the city.

thefishingnut · #**1437** Posted **Dec 2, 2007, 2:30 AM**

I like the renderings as well. I've been puzzled about 1 thing, and the current view doesn't help me. Just where is this green space that Hooton is up in arms about retaining?

Helladog · #**1438** Posted **Dec 2, 2007, 4:19 AM**

Based on what I can see, I like it too...lots of green space as well. I'm still waiting for any sign of something proposed to break ground in the uptown; everything is still in waiting.

The only hope for change is the past. Somehow, over twenty years ago, Brunswick Square happened. Maybe this will be something after all....

michael_d40 · #**1439** Posted **Dec 2, 2007, 4:38 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alberta Bound

A little rough but you get the idea. Maybe someone with skills could overlay the model better.

It really adds a whole new dimension to the high density urban core of the city.

HOLY COW !
I love it !!

Seely32 · #**1440** Posted **Dec 2, 2007, 4:50 AM**

incredible i dont know what hooton is taking about when she says its not pedestrian friendly this looks great and hopefully the green area will be open to the public this is lightyears better than what we have now. I dont mind having this being the business part of center city and leaving the waterfront to the tourist's and retail... let's get this project moving.