Tempe Development Thread

[NIXPHX77]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

So... changing subject... if we do end up at ASU next year, how bad would it be to live in Chandler or Gilbert? I have to admit, even though it goes against everything I stand for, I kind of like the idea of a couple years in a little ranch house with a rock and cactus yard and a big patio like my grandparents have... I can't afford that in Tempe, I assume, so where in the east valley is a good place to head? (I'd like easy access to the outdoors, so that Tonto National Forest I assume, and of course ASU)

Hi, did you mean to purchase or to rent? combusean made some good points re: locations and reverse commutes. North Tempe, South Scottsdale, far NW Mesa, and Papago Park areas might not be too bad either i believe. also, if you're from Denver, i'd say make sure to get a place with a pool - that will help with the heat adjustment!

ps - it would be great to have another local forumer!

[jvbahn]

Can we please get off the inane "mine is bigger than yours" track with the universities? Who gives a flying f*** about their university? It's just the paper which gets you a better job than slave wages, and the life experience you had while you were there. Since all of that is subjective and means nothing to anyone else, let's move on and not throw feces around.

[jvbahn]

whoops, double post.

[vertex]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

So... changing subject... if we do end up at ASU next year, how bad would it be to live in Chandler or Gilbert? I have to admit, even though it goes against everything I stand for, I kind of like the idea of a couple years in a little ranch house with a rock and cactus yard and a big patio like my grandparents have... I can't afford that in Tempe, I assume, so where in the east valley is a good place to head? (I'd like easy access to the outdoors, so that Tonto National Forest I assume, and of course ASU)

The homes closest to Tonto will be the most expensive in Mesa, as will the homes anywhere near the Superstitions.

If you lived in Tempe, you would still be an hour or less from all of these outdoorsy-type places, and the everyday commute to ASU would be cake. You might also consider south Scottsdale. East Phoenix could be an option too, since the light rail will start by the end of '08.

The commute from east Mesa to ASU wouldn't be a lot of fun.

[jvbahn]

If nature is your thing, Bunt, I would assume there are still areas at the base of South Mountain which are cheap, close to Tempe and Downtown, and provide easy access to the mountain park systems there. It's always a nice, overlooked area, though the secret's been out for a couple years now.

[combusean]

^ Also Camelback Mountain and Papago Park more or less divide central Phoenix from the rest of the east valley. While they might not be the Tonto National Forest, they are still very large desert parks with abundant recreational amenities.

Since it's very easy to get your nature fix from any one of numerous day or half-day trips from basically anywhere in the Valley, I would probably prioritize traffic and shopping/dining first. Mesa might have some pretty spots near the mountains, but the traffic out there is atrocious and you'll find yourself heading back into Tempe/Phoenix/Scottsdale to do basically everything besides getting groceries and fast food.

[KEVINphx]

I definitely would NOT recommend 40th street and camelback if affordability is an issue, as someone else said: search around north Tempe, South Scottsdale, West Mesa or even parts of east phoenix, there are some neat neighborhoods in between Scottsdale road to the east and say......32nd Street to the west and McDowel to the south, Camelback to the north. That bordered area has a lot of different neighborhoods from very sketchy to places that are definitely on the up-swing.

All of them are near lighrail/decent bus or a short commute to dowtowns in Scottsdale, Tempe and Phoenix.

[tempedude]

Louver system being installed on Papago Gateway Center, and supposedly the largest in the western United States.
This building will be certified as LEED Gold minimum, hopefully it will achieve platinum status.





Centerpoint (I hope this is enough of an update to post)






^Kinda a cool shot I thot

ASU dorms along Apache Blvd. coming right along. I forgot the name of them already. Apache Blvd. between Rural Rd. and Mill Ave. will look much different in the next couple of years as ASU completes some of the projects along this stretch, which includes the new honors college buildings at Apache and Rural.

[Phxbyrd211]

I'll never understand why ASU has to do everything in such large scale. They seem to have put the honors college as a top priority for instance. I say why not just build a 5,000 student residential college somewhere else in the state rather than jam everything into Tempe? True they are doing that somewhat DT but I think Phoenix and UA took the primary lead there and Crow is reaping the rewards. They should cap the full-time enrollment at ASU and UA and then just begin to accomidate everyone else depending on the part of the state they live or wish to move to?

[andrewkfromaz]

College is something that really benefits from proximity. Having the bulk of students in one campus adds to the easy availability of a variety of classes, as well as the opportunity for students to socialize with people from all backgrounds and majors. This may be bad for access to higher education in rural areas of the state, but that's really not ASU's mission, as defined primarily by the Board of Regents as well as by Dr. Crow. A massive campus with a wide variety of functions is actually good for students. Personally, one of my favorite things about going to ASU was the opportunity to see significant political figures speak on campus for free. People like Bill Clinton don't often visit smaller schools, unless they're in hotly contested districts or states (here's looking at NH and IA, both of which states I think it would be awesome to live in, only for primary season). </ramble>

[HooverDam]

Originally Posted by Phxbyrd211

I'll never understand why ASU has to do everything in such large scale. They seem to have put the honors college as a top priority for instance. I say why not just build a 5,000 student residential college somewhere else in the state rather than jam everything into Tempe? True they are doing that somewhat DT but I think Phoenix and UA took the primary lead there and Crow is reaping the rewards. They should cap the full-time enrollment at ASU and UA and then just begin to accomidate everyone else depending on the part of the state they live or wish to move to?

Are you trying to say that you wish ASU had capped enrollment and then places like ASU West and ASU Poly would be spun off into their own schools? That was tried and proposed a few years back, but ABOR wouldn't go for it, so now ASU basically has a mandate to educate the whole state.

I personally would've loved to have seen ASU West grow into Central Arizona U and take the 2nd tier (for lack of a better term) students. It would help ASUs image of course, and would reduce the monolithic, bureaucratic feeling that ASU gives off (all my friends who go there complain about this) by slightly reducing its size.

[andrewkfromaz]

Originally Posted by HooverDam

so now ASU basically has a mandate to educate the whole state.

I personally would've loved to have seen ASU West grow into Central Arizona U and take the 2nd tier (for lack of a better term) students. It would help ASUs image of course, and would reduce the monolithic, bureaucratic feeling that ASU gives off (all my friends who go there complain about this) by slightly reducing its size.

To your first point: educate the whole state from its existing campuses. ASU has no plans that I know of to build satellite campuses in say, Yuma, Tucson, Prescott, or any place other than the four campuses in the Phoenix area.

As for the spinning off of ASU West, how many of your friends who complain of ASU's "monolithic, bureaucratic feeling" go to ASU West? I think the answer to ASU's problems is to fix them, not reduce the number of students or even the rate of growth. I know two people who started at ASU this fall, and they both complained that the enrollment process was incredibly unwieldy, advisement offered on "orientation day" was worse than useless, and that living off campus, they're not particularly plugged in to campus culture. All of these issues are legitimate, and can be addressed separately from school size, if Dr. Crow and the rest of the school administration put together the will power to make it happen. If ASU could only fix these issues by shrinking, spinning off ASU West would only be a drop in the bucket.

[HooverDam]

^I have about half a dozen friends who go to ASU, and they all attend the main campus.

I never went to ASU, the extent of my knowledge about it is as a sports fan, so I can't speak too directly to how they can fix their problems. Though I have heard complaints about its size from a lot of people. I think at some point, the school really does get too big.

I went to school in St Louis, and I personally prefer the higher education system of that city. They have a bunch of colleges, all with smaller enrollments, this offers different cultures and things to offer.

Obviously, ASU is never going to be a small school, nor should it be. But if I could wave a magic wand, I'd maybe cap the enrollment at 50K, and have ASU West and ASU Poly grow into their own schools, something like the UC system in California.

[combusean]

I think the best solution for ASU's woes is not to cap enrollment arbitrarily but simply break their monopoly on public higher education in the Valley. I echo Robert Robb's earlier thoughts on the downtown bond issue where he pointed out that Phoenix probably missed an opportunity to break this monopoly with a real 4-year school in its core. Right now we have an amalgamation of programs that, granted, is really striking and beneficial, but for the majority of students, they will be pursuing their education almost entirely at the Tempe campus. If downtown is supposed to be the nexus of everything, shouldn't that be represented by a wide-reaching school?

The community colleges should have no restrictions in granting 4-year degrees, thus becoming "city colleges" like in other parts of the nation. Right now I think one of the only ways to get a 4-year degree through the existing CC system is by going through one of their podunk out-of-state 4-year partners, which to me is flat out ridiculous.

ASU works really well by leveraging its enormous size into research potential, and the undergraduates are generally a burden on that end. Breaking high-dollar professors away from their real work to teach a class of a 100+ undergraduates doesn't do anybody any good--the professors, the research, and the students all suffer as a result of ASU's struggling to meet the demand inherent to its monopoly.

If students don't care about ASU's prestige or whatever and just want what the community college system is good for--being in small classes with teachers that want to teach--they should have the opportunity to see it through to a bachelor's degree. If students want the affiliation with a major university and everything that entails, even in limited scope at the undergrad level, they should have that option rather than being forced into it.

I would love to see the new Phoenix City College and ASU head to head downtown competing for students where students can pick from the merits of both systems rather than being forced into one or the other for whatever reason.

[SunDevil]

Originally Posted by Phxbyrd211

I'll never understand why ASU has to do everything in such large scale. They seem to have put the honors college as a top priority for instance. I say why not just build a 5,000 student residential college somewhere else in the state rather than jam everything into Tempe? True they are doing that somewhat DT but I think Phoenix and UA took the primary lead there and Crow is reaping the rewards. They should cap the full-time enrollment at ASU and UA and then just begin to accommodate everyone else depending on the part of the state they live or wish to move to?

Sorry, but you don't really seem to know what you are talking about. ASU cannot cap their enrollment, the state (ABOR) won't allow it. ASU also cannot have a medical school, the state (ABOR) won't allow it. Thus, not only was the collaborative "medical campus" downtown something ASU desperately wanted but ASU had students going downtown before the "medical campus" did. Additionally, after UA was allowed to cap their enrollment, Crow proposed the creation of more universities like Northern Arizona, he/ASU was once again shot down by ABOR.

[andrewkfromaz]

Originally Posted by combusean

I think the best solution for ASU's woes is not to cap enrollment arbitrarily but simply break their monopoly on public higher education in the Valley. I echo Robert Robb's earlier thoughts on the downtown bond issue where he pointed out that Phoenix probably missed an opportunity to break this monopoly with a real 4-year school in its core. Right now we have an amalgamation of programs that, granted, is really striking and beneficial, but for the majority of students, they will be pursuing their education almost entirely at the Tempe campus. If downtown is supposed to be the nexus of everything, shouldn't that be represented by a wide-reaching school?

The community colleges should have no restrictions in granting 4-year degrees, thus becoming "city colleges" like in other parts of the nation. Right now I think one of the only ways to get a 4-year degree through the existing CC system is by going through one of their podunk out-of-state 4-year partners, which to me is flat out ridiculous.

ASU works really well by leveraging its enormous size into research potential, and the undergraduates are generally a burden on that end. Breaking high-dollar professors away from their real work to teach a class of a 100+ undergraduates doesn't do anybody any good--the professors, the research, and the students all suffer as a result of ASU's struggling to meet the demand inherent to its monopoly.

If students don't care about ASU's prestige or whatever and just want what the community college system is good for--being in small classes with teachers that want to teach--they should have the opportunity to see it through to a bachelor's degree. If students want the affiliation with a major university and everything that entails, even in limited scope at the undergrad level, they should have that option rather than being forced into it.

I would love to see the new Phoenix City College and ASU head to head downtown competing for students where students can pick from the merits of both systems rather than being forced into one or the other for whatever reason.

I think allowing community colleges to offer at least a selection of four-year degrees is long overdue. Sean, do you have a link to the Robert Robb article? I really respect Robb's point of view, particularly on local issues.
I wish Phoenix had the political power to convince ABOR to allow ASU Downtown to become a full-service school, in addition to the unique colleges located there. (Journalism, Public Programs, etc.) At this point, ASU DT students have a limited selection of electives on their campus, and some even have to travel to get core classes.

Going back to HooverDam's point, creating more options for higher education in AZ and in the Phoenix area would increase the quality of education for ASU students, as well as increasing access to higher education for thousands, if not millions, of Arizonans. I don't think that offering more choice would shrink ASU particularly dramatically. Did someone say "Napolitano Legacy?"

[Phxbyrd211]

Sundevil, it would be arbitrary for me to argue that you are biased when it comes to ASU. Try and speak to the merits of my points and not just your own complaints. I know what you are saying, I'm saying I disagree with what happened and want it to be different. Why aren't we asking how people become board of regents members and how they are retained?

[shawneriksmith]

I know there was some mention of a MLS soccer team coming to the Phoenix area. I think the area below would be ideal for a MLS soccer stadium (the area between Priest and Center Pkwy / Washington St and 202). It's next to light rail, not too far from downtown Tempe, and with the canal right there developers could easily add some low-rise, high-density development (low-rise due to Sky Harbor). I think it would be really awesome and help spawn additional development in North Tempe area.

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[gomoso22]

can you repost it! I can't see it

[Sekkle]

Wasn't that the original idea for the Cardinals stadium site (before it got moved to Glendale)? It was almost a done deal at that site, but I think there were some FAA concerns... that was around the time of 9/11, though, and there was a lot of talk about how nothing that would attract people could ever be built that close to an airport, etc, etc. It is definitely a prime piece of real estate, I would think - close to Sky Harbor, light rail, the 202, Papago Park, Downtown Tempe.