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  #3001  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2007, 3:52 PM
JackStraw JackStraw is offline
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I have no doubt that the market exist. With the amount of college students we have here, and our metro area is still very large we would easily fill up venues for the average popular "real" quality band.

I feel that a quality venue would not cost as much as a project such as North Shore live was proposed. If you look at the electric factory in Philly this was a old factory turned into a 5000 or so seat venue for these type of bands. When I lived there many good quality bands came through to that venue.

Now, A few questions since I am ignorant to the whole concert venue booking:

I was on Live Nation's website, and it list the Benedum Center, Peterson Event center, and more. Now I now they don't own these as Pitt owns the Peterson. Are there theaters they completely own in other cities that help bring these bands in that we don't have? I always thought the Benedum would make a great venue for bands. I never been in there (and It 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 to admit), but I figured Tori Amos, or Ben Harper would have been great to see in that venue.

Also, is the guy who heads live nation for our region really screwing us over that bad?

I was just disappointed in coming back to the Burgh and missing out on Modest Mouse, the shins, and more. I use to live a block from the fillmore in Denver and would pick up tickets for bands like this all the time. I know we do well with our Orchestra, Theater, Museums, and local art scene, but bringing in a good music scene must be an issue in keeping young people here and a good quality of entertainment. I don't like to drive to the Electric Factory every Modest Mouse tour.
     
     
  #3002  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2007, 6:03 PM
cdc cdc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evergrey View Post
11 stories... up from the initial 6 stories in the article...
11 stories... but, one thing to keep in mind is that the ground is not
level there. Boundary Street is far below Forbes Ave. For example,
the newish CMU Collaborative Innovation Center building across the
street from the proposed hotel site is 9 stories tall from Boundary
Street, but only 4 stories tall from Forbes Ave (4 levels of parking
and 1 level of office space are below Forbes).


At any rate, I went back and took a closer look at the hearing notice
sign. Here is a bit more info I transcribed:

City of Pittsburgh
Zoning Board of Adjustment
Zone Case No. 214-2007; Nov 14, 2007

Hearing Notice
Museum Park Hotel has filed an application to
construct an eleven-story structure for use
as Hotel/Motel (general) with 190 space
sub-level valet parking
at 4655 Forbes Ave Ward 4

This appeal does not conform to the "Height"/"Area" provisions of
the PGH Zoning Ordinance. The Zoning Board of
Adjustment, which is empowered to either grant or deny
said request, will hold a public hearing on the first floor of
the John P Robin Civic Building, 200 Ross St., PGH.
This hearing will take place on Dec 6th, 2007 at 9:10am.
Anyone in favor of or opposed to this application is invited
to attend. Testimony and presentations must be done
in person. The plans and applications are on file at the
Board of Adjustment counter located on the third floor of
the John P Robin Civic Building. Files may be examined
before the scheduled hearing date between the hours of 8am and
3pm.
     
     
  #3003  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2007, 7:15 PM
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Austinlee Austinlee is offline
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It certainly is a shame that Pittsburgh has a venue shortage right now for local concertgoers. I used to be one of the biggest patrons of Club Laga from 1997 till it closed. It was one of the best mid sized venues in the country in my opinon after going to shows in lots of other cities.

I would like to point out that Pittsburgh does have a strong genre for a city our size that alot of people don't even know: Electronic Music.

Thanks to concert promoter Steve Simpson and also DJ Aaron Clark (forumer here) and his crew of Humanaut DJs, some of the worlds best Djs have been playing in Pittsburgh for the last couple of years. Here's a quick list off the top of my head of great Dj's that have some through recently:

1. Luke Fair - Toronto (playing tomorrow night Wed 11/21 at Privilege)
2. DJ T - Berlin
3. Marco Carola - Naples, Italy
4. People NYC - New York
5. DJ Three - New York
6. Doc Martin - San Francisco
7. Habersham - Atlanta
8. Pig & Dan - New York
9. Steve Porter - New York
10. DJ Dan - Los Angeles (was ranked as #1 DJ in the world at the time)
11. Donald Glaude - Seattle
12. Charles Feelgood - Washington DC
13. Paolo Mojo - London

^Anyone who knows electronic music would look at that list and be impressed that Pittsburgh has hosted all that in the last year.

One impressive thing about these shows is that they tend to draw a more educated, sophisticated crowd as opposed to rock shows that draw alot of teenie boppers. So this is a very good thing for Pittsburgh.

Anyone on here interested in going to any of these great events should go to Aaron Clark's Pittsburgh electronic music event website: www.humanaut.net and check the events calendar from time to time to see what's coming.

Last edited by Austinlee; Nov 20, 2007 at 7:26 PM.
     
     
  #3004  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2007, 7:43 PM
JackStraw JackStraw is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PA Pride View Post
It certainly is a shame that Pittsburgh has a venue shortage right now for local concertgoers. I used to be one of the biggest patrons of Club Laga from 1997 till it closed. It was one of the best mid sized venues in the country in my opinon after going to shows in lots of other cities.

I would like to point out that Pittsburgh does have a strong genre for a city our size that alot of people don't even know: Electronic Music.

Thanks to concert promoter Steve Simpson and also DJ Aaron Clark (forumer here) and his crew of Humanaut DJs, some of the worlds best Djs have been playing in Pittsburgh for the last couple of years. Here's a quick list off the top of my head of great Dj's that have some through recently:

1. Luke Fair - Toronto (playing tomorrow night Wed 11/21 at Privilege)
2. DJ T - Berlin
3. Marco Carola - Naples, Italy
4. People NYC - New York
5. DJ Three - New York
6. Doc Martin - San Francisco
7. Habersham - Atlanta
8. Pig & Dan - New York
9. Steve Porter - New York
10. DJ Dan - Los Angeles (was ranked as #1 DJ in the world at the time)
11. Donald Glaude - Seattle
12. Charles Feelgood - Washington DC
13. Paolo Mojo - London

^Anyone who knows electronic music would look at that list and be impressed that Pittsburgh has hosted all that in the last year.

One impressive thing about these shows is that they tend to draw a more educated, sophisticated crowd as opposed to rock shows that draw alot of teenie boppers. So this is a very good thing for Pittsburgh.

Anyone on here interested in going to any of these great events should go to Aaron Clark's Pittsburgh electronic music event website: www.humanaut.net and check the events calendar from time to time to see what's coming.
I am not into electronic music, but it is good to hear about Pittsburgh having a good local scene for it. I will admit, that I use to visit a venue in Denver that brought in a good underground scene, and I see in the City Paper many of these bands that went to the place I went to in Denver visit Mr. Smalls also in Millvale.

Some of those rock shows do contribute to the teenie boppers. However, many mentioned at a time were underground Alternative music such as Modest Mouse. They came into Philly well before they had their "float on" song out and got popular by the mainstream.

I personally don't know much about the local Pittsburgh music scene and venues. I was raised in the burbs, then spent college and a few years after in other places.
     
     
  #3005  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2007, 8:37 PM
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I understand people's concerns about needing a medium-sized venue for Pittsburgh; I think it is something that will be good for 20-somethings. If all it really takes is to convert a an old warehouse, though, I don't know what all the trouble is...we've got bunches of em in the city.
     
     
  #3006  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2007, 11:26 PM
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It's a little more difficult than just renovating a warehouse. Sound/light systems, and hiring proper crews to run things correctly is also required. It takes a lot of planning and design to get it right. Acoustics, etc. It's also extremely risky. If LiveNation (or another large entity) doesn't want to do it themselves, then it's really hard to get off the ground by anyone else. 2/3rds of clubs fail within 2 years. A 5000 person venue is even harder to make successful. Another issue I have is that the clubs/venues we have are already competing for the same small pie of people. Do you know what would happen if a 5000 person venue opened? A lot of the little guys would go under. That's a couple thousand people each night that wouldn't be frequenting their places of business anymore. Promoters like us are terrified of a venue that big opening. We already have enough competition from sports teams, events at the Mellon Arena/PG Pavilion as it is. While you would be gaining a lot of bands that you would love to see here, it would definitely take a bite out of the awesome underground scenes that we have here. Is that something worth trading? I'm not sure.

And thanks Austin for the plug. Our events really are good and are worthy of checking out (here comes the horn toot). We've really been able to put Pittsburgh on the national dance music map (and even a bit international sometimes) because of the events we've been able to bring. Even if you don't like electronic, they are worthy of checking out. The style of music we book is pretty different than stereotypes most Pittsburghers have ingrained in their heads when they hear the words "techno". It's complex, well thought out music that's not abrasive. It always moves the dance floor. Very tasteful stuff produced and DJed by headliners that you've probably heard their music before but didn't even realize it.
     
     
  #3007  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2007, 12:12 AM
hyperion1110's Avatar
hyperion1110 hyperion1110 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronClark View Post
It's a little more difficult than just renovating a warehouse. Sound/light systems, and hiring proper crews to run things correctly is also required. It takes a lot of planning and design to get it right. Acoustics, etc. It's also extremely risky. If LiveNation (or another large entity) doesn't want to do it themselves, then it's really hard to get off the ground by anyone else. 2/3rds of clubs fail within 2 years. A 5000 person venue is even harder to make successful. Another issue I have is that the clubs/venues we have are already competing for the same small pie of people. Do you know what would happen if a 5000 person venue opened? A lot of the little guys would go under. That's a couple thousand people each night that wouldn't be frequenting their places of business anymore. Promoters like us are terrified of a venue that big opening. We already have enough competition from sports teams, events at the Mellon Arena/PG Pavilion as it is. While you would be gaining a lot of bands that you would love to see here, it would definitely take a bite out of the awesome underground scenes that we have here. Is that something worth trading? I'm not sure.

And thanks Austin for the plug. Our events really are good and are worthy of checking out (here comes the horn toot). We've really been able to put Pittsburgh on the national dance music map (and even a bit international sometimes) because of the events we've been able to bring. Even if you don't like electronic, they are worthy of checking out. The style of music we book is pretty different than stereotypes most Pittsburghers have ingrained in their heads when they hear the words "techno". It's complex, well thought out music that's not abrasive. It always moves the dance floor. Very tasteful stuff produced and DJed by headliners that you've probably heard their music before but didn't even realize it.
It's good to know there are more things coming out a Pittsburgh than the Clarks and Rusted Root
     
     
  #3008  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2007, 12:51 AM
Johnland Johnland is offline
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Height an issue?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by cdc View Post
11 stories... but, one thing to keep in mind is that the ground is not
level there. Boundary Street is far below Forbes Ave. For example,
the newish CMU Collaborative Innovation Center building across the
street from the proposed hotel site is 9 stories tall from Boundary
Street, but only 4 stories tall from Forbes Ave (4 levels of parking
and 1 level of office space are below Forbes).


At any rate, I went back and took a closer look at the hearing notice
sign. Here is a bit more info I transcribed:

City of Pittsburgh
Zoning Board of Adjustment
Zone Case No. 214-2007; Nov 14, 2007

Hearing Notice
Museum Park Hotel has filed an application to
construct an eleven-story structure for use
as Hotel/Motel (general) with 190 space
sub-level valet parking
at 4655 Forbes Ave Ward 4

This appeal does not conform to the "Height"/"Area" provisions of
the PGH Zoning Ordinance.
The Zoning Board of
Adjustment, which is empowered to either grant or deny
said request, will hold a public hearing on the first floor of
the John P Robin Civic Building, 200 Ross St., PGH.
This hearing will take place on Dec 6th, 2007 at 9:10am.
Anyone in favor of or opposed to this application is invited
to attend. Testimony and presentations must be done
in person. The plans and applications are on file at the
Board of Adjustment counter located on the third floor of
the John P Robin Civic Building. Files may be examined
before the scheduled hearing date between the hours of 8am and
3pm.
Geez. I wonder what the height limit actually is. Isn't this proposed structure a stone's throw from the 42 story Cathedral of Learning. Oakland land should be densely developed.
     
     
  #3009  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2007, 12:51 AM
JackStraw JackStraw is offline
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City to reward buildings going green.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07324/835302-113.stm

City to reward those who are going green
Tuesday, November 20, 2007
By Rich Lord, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
Pittsburgh has one of the largest environmentally friendly buildings in the world, but until yesterday had no city incentives for green construction.

That put it behind many cities -- from Calabasas, Calif., to Morgantown, W.Va. -- that reward or require eco-friendly building design.

Yesterday, City Council played catchup with the approval of one green building incentive and the introduction of another.

"I want to put together an entire green agenda for Pittsburgh so that our city is known as one of the leading examples of sustainable development," said Councilman William Peduto, author of two bills that he says would do that.

The bill he introduced yesterday would require that any large project involving new construction or renovation undertaken by the city get a green-building rating of silver. Any private development backed by a city tax-increment financing subsidy would also have to get the rating.

Silver is the third-highest rating in the nonprofit U.S. Green Building Council's Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design, or LEED, system. The requirements for a silver rating are less stringent than for platinum and gold but ahead of a basic LEED certification.

Buildings get points toward their rankings based on demolition waste disposal, energy and water efficiency, access to public transportation, use of nontoxic materials, and more. Accredited professionals charge fees to determine building ratings.

The David L. Lawrence Convention Center, Downtown, at one point laid claim to being the largest building in the world to attain the rank of gold under the LEED system. Holding silver ratings are PNC Firstside Center, Downtown; the Greater Pittsburgh Community Food Bank in Duquesne; and Carnegie Mellon University's New House Residence Hall, in Oakland. Two other buildings have the basic certification.

Under Mr. Peduto's legislation, any new or renovated city fire station, recreation center or public works shed would have to reach at least the silver ranking, and so would anything built by private developers seeking tax-increment financing, or TIF. That's a tool the city uses once or twice a year in which government borrows money to aid a development, then pays off the debt using most of the new taxes it creates for as long as 20 years.

TIF is usually reserved for big projects, like the $113 million Bakery Square development in Larimer that is seeking a $10 million subsidy. Council yesterday postponed a vote on that TIF, citing union concerns about inclusion of a nonunion hotel.

Bakery Square is aiming for a gold rating, said Todd Reidbord, of developer Walnut Capital Partners. He views environmental features as keys to attracting discriminating tenants.

He called city incentives for environmental design "a decent idea," but said he's "not 100 percent convinced that public financing should be tied to a private rating organization."

There's debate in the legal community about whether private ratings should affect public processes, said George J. Mongell, a real estate attorney at Washington, D.C.-based Covington & Burling who advises on green projects. Using the private U.S. Green Building Council's ratings "is really the way it goes" in most cities adopting legislation. A few, including Chicago, have written their own standards.

He said it's important to have some city incentive, noting that studies show going green adds as much as 2 percent to the cost of a new building.

Some cities allow green buildings to be larger, as council did yesterday with a final vote on Mr. Peduto's legislation allowing certified structures to be 20 percent taller than others in their zoning districts.

Others tie subsidies or speedier permitting to green ratings. Others just say that if you want to build in their jurisdictions, you have to build green, whether you're getting a subsidy or not.

Washington, D.C., demands that any new construction of more than 50,000 square feet be certified under LEED rules.

Little Calabasas, Calif., a city of 23,123, requires that any new building larger than 500 square feet be certified, and anything bigger than 5,000 square feet must get the silver rating.

For more than a year, Morgantown has required that anything larger than 10,000 square feet built by the city for its own use reach the basic certification.

Mr. Peduto's legislation most closely resembles Atlanta's. Both require that all new city-owned buildings of more than 5,000 square feet, or costing more than $2 million, be rated silver. The need for public hearings could put off a vote until next year.

Rich Lord can be reached at [email protected] or 412-263-1542.
     
     
  #3010  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2007, 1:01 AM
JackStraw JackStraw is offline
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I actually see the above article mentioned as, "It's about time." instead of anything good. Most cities even the sprawl laden Atlanta has all of their city buildings going for a silver rating. Soon, LEED design criteria will probably be implemented in the International Building Code as well. Pittsburgh as a city has to work harder at being green though. Just because we have the third most LEED certified buildings doesn't make the city green.

http://pittsburgh.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/stories/2007/07/09/focus4.html?jst=s_cn_hl

Here is an interesting article written in July about how Pittsburgh is far from being a green city even with all of our green buildings. However that air quality study is bogus, and that should help us.

Also, I apologize if that article was actually posted in July. I took a while off these forums, and I really don't have days to read through all 151 pages..........
     
     
  #3011  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2007, 1:27 AM
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Austinlee Austinlee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronClark View Post

And thanks Austin for the plug. Our events really are good and are worthy of checking out (here comes the horn toot). We've really been able to put Pittsburgh on the national dance music map (and even a bit international sometimes) because of the events we've been able to bring.
I gotta give credit where credit is due. You guys have single handedly made Pittsburgh more international and on the cutting edge than just about any other music force in town, so thank you! I've been having the time of my life at al your events. I've heard so many people including out of towners say: "This is just like New York" (or Washington DC or Toronto.) That is amazing to hear that about stuff going on here in Pgh.
     
     
  #3012  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2007, 8:24 PM
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This is definitely a plus.

November 21, 2007

Westinghouse Electric building world’s first nuclear power simulator here, hiring 300



Monroeville-based Westinghouse Electric Company is planning to construct the world’s first nuclear power plant simulator in Westmoreland County, a $20 M plant that will involve the hiring of 300 technicians and engineers across the board.

The plant will be located at Westinghouse's Waltz Mill research and testing lab near Madison. The AP1000 power plant simulator will model the plants being built by Westinghouse in China, as well as the U.S., but without the nuclear fuel. It will be used to train Chinese and American workers in maintenance and operations of the power plant, says Vaughn Gilbert, Westinghouse spokesperson.

“This is a very vibrant site and we have made additional investments in the site over the years,” says Gilbert.

Earlier this year, Westinghouse announced plans to hire 1300 highly-skilled people to work on its $5.3 billion contract for four nuclear power reactors in China and 12 reactors in the U.S. The Chinese government is aggressively pursuing plans with Westinghouse to build as many as 30 nuclear power facilities in the country.

Westinghouse Electric is a leading supplier of nuclear power plan technology in the world.

Writer: Deb Smit
Source: Vaughn Gilbert, Westinghouse Electric
     
     
  #3013  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2007, 8:29 PM
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Austinlee Austinlee is offline
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^I don't know why they included that photo; From what I can tell, that is just a computer image from inside the simulator not the actual facility that they are talking about. Or is that the actual thing they are building? I can't figure it out.
     
     
  #3014  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2007, 8:37 PM
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I think it's the actual facility.

And Westmoreland County gets another win...

Respironics breaks ground on $32M facility in Upper Burrell, will hire 330



On Nov. 15th, Respironics broke ground on its new $32 million facility in Upper Burrell. Located at 312 Alvin Dr. in the Westmoreland Business and Research Park, the 165,000-square-foot facility is being constructed seven miles from Respironics’ global headquarters in Murrysville. The 56-acre center will feature a 100,000 square-foot manufacturing facility and a two-story 65,000 square-foot office complex.

Respironics’ latest expansion is prompted by worldwide demand for its sleep therapy devices and the success of its Obstructive Sleep Apnea division, a core growth driver for the company. Within five years, Respironics will add 330 new manufacturing and professional jobs. The expansion will retain 1,492 existing jobs.

“We need this plant because Respironics continues to sustain fifteen- to twenty-percent growth every year. This plant will uniquely position us to be world-class in high-volume medical device manufacturing,” says Eric Kulikowski, with Respironics. “The biggest thing is that it allows us to continue to leverage and tap into the large workforce we already have here in Westmoreland County. Our goal was to remain within a ten mile radius so we could retain our employers.”

The project received a $1.79 million financial package from the Pennsyvania Department of Community and Economic Development, which includes an $800,000 opportunity grant and $990,000 in job creation tax credits. Respironics’ expansion in Western Pennsylvania includes capital investments of up to $120 million in land, building and equipment. The company recently opened a facility in Plum Borough and purchased property in Monroeville.

The seventh largest employer in Westmoreland County, Respironics markets products in 141 countries and employs more than 5,100 people worldwide.

Writer: Jennifer Baron
Source: Eric Kulikowski, Respironics
     
     
  #3015  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2007, 8:15 PM
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I grew up not far from that research park in Upper Burrel. I have a lot of old friends from High school that are employed at Respironics as engineers or tech employees. It does bring a good job base to Westmoreland county.

Ok, but here I go on my anti sprawl and rebirth of cities rant.(for those who may want to hear). It just pisses me off that these companies put all their buildings 7 miles away from the run down town, New Kensington, with tons of brownfields that could be reused. I started my freshmen year of school up near Upper Burrell and there is a good amount of empoyees that work at this tech park. What a waste when you could use this to help revamp New Ken. Sorry, I just hate tech parks, especially when they are 10 miles from unused brownfields and dying towns.
     
     
  #3016  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2007, 11:17 PM
Johnland Johnland is offline
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Re-use, re-cyle- re-build!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JackStraw View Post
I grew up not far from that research park in Upper Burrel. I have a lot of old friends from High school that are employed at Respironics as engineers or tech employees. It does bring a good job base to Westmoreland county.

Ok, but here I go on my anti sprawl and rebirth of cities rant.(for those who may want to hear). It just pisses me off that these companies put all their buildings 7 miles away from the run down town, New Kensington, with tons of brownfields that could be reused. I started my freshmen year of school up near Upper Burrell and there is a good amount of empoyees that work at this tech park. What a waste when you could use this to help revamp New Ken. Sorry, I just hate tech parks, especially when they are 10 miles from unused brownfields and dying towns.
JackSraw, don't you apoligize for one minute on your 'rant'. You are 100% right in your convictions that existing urban centers ought to be utilitized first. Damnit..existing cities should be considered first for re-use. This would help to mitigate the unpeakable sprawl into pristine countryside in a state that has only marginal net population growth, yet, continues to eat up rural land for 'new' development at an alarming rate.
     
     
  #3017  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2007, 3:43 AM
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UrbaniDesDev UrbaniDesDev is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackStraw View Post
I hate our north shore planning. I for one think that Heinz field could have been put in a different location. I compare a lot to Denver since I lived there for a while. They had Invesco about 2 miles from downtown. Why take up valuable space with acres full of parking next to the city center. It could have been built on a brownfield somewhere and had the exact same benefits. You bring 60,000 people down to an area 8 times a year, maybe a couple more times with big concerts. This space could be used for other redevelpoment projects to help bring in more office space, apartments, lofts, and retail on the north shore. I like baseball parks near the city center and PNC was perfect. However it didn't help at all in revitalizing the north shore. If you look at Coors field in Denver, Lodo (lower downtown) was a old run down area. Once Coors field came in everybody wanted to be in Lower Downtown, and now it is trendy and nice.

I still think the Pen's arena will help out more. One since the pens are planning to contribute to redevelopment around the new arena in a hotel, residential buildings, and retail. It seems as if Pittsburgh is trying to capitalize of this project. The one problem with the north shore is they just pretty much took a existing stadium and put in two newer ones not thinking about anything further from that. It seems (as of now) that the redevelopment of uptown will be largely considered in this project.
Well...
by time they finish filling all the land between the stadii, it should be about time for a new one, eh?
     
     
  #3018  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2007, 3:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackStraw View Post
Ok, but here I go on my anti sprawl and rebirth of cities rant.(for those who may want to hear). It just pisses me off that these companies put all their buildings 7 miles away from the run down town, New Kensington, with tons of brownfields that could be reused. I started my freshmen year of school up near Upper Burrell and there is a good amount of empoyees that work at this tech park. What a waste when you could use this to help revamp New Ken. Sorry, I just hate tech parks, especially when they are 10 miles from unused brownfields and dying towns.


RANT ON JACKSTRAW!

Last edited by UrbaniDesDev; Nov 24, 2007 at 4:41 AM.
     
     
  #3019  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2007, 6:13 PM
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Some pics I had taken of the North Shore fountain area. I like monitoring the progress of this area. This fountain is a popular spot in the summer heat.

rendering of future office building


new fountain extension outside of Hyde Park Steaks









Last edited by UrbaniDesDev; Nov 26, 2007 at 12:47 AM.
     
     
  #3020  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2007, 4:42 PM
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Thanks for the picture update. I'm very glad they extended the "canal" up to the street as originally planned. There was a lot of talk that it wasn't going to happen. The fountain and water steps hearken back to the remnants of the PA Canal that were dug up while they were excavating for those buildings IIRC
     
     
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