Hartsfield Jackson Atlanta International Airport

[sprtsluvr8]

Regarding criticism of Hartsfield for not providing free WiFi:

Most of the airports that currently offer free WiFi are small or mid-size airports...the busiest airports without fees are McCarran and Sky Harbor. LAX, O'Hare, JFK, Logan, etc....not free. Eventually I predict that WiFi will be free and available in most public places, but it was only in the past 2 years that any airport provided it...and it seems that the free WiFi connections provided in some airports are often very shakey and unreliable.

From reading your earlier post, one might gather that Hartsfield is the last airport on Earth not offering free WiFi... Criticism of anything is fine as long as it is constructive and positive.

The fees will go away in the near future, just like cell phone per-minute fees, internet connection per-minute fees, etc. There are hot spots all over the place already, and some cities offer it free in their Downtown/CBD.

[Andrea]

Originally Posted by sprtsluvr8

Regarding criticism of Hartsfield for not providing free WiFi:

Most of the airports that currently offer free WiFi are small or mid-size airports...the busiest airports without fees are McCarran and Sky Harbor. LAX, O'Hare, JFK, Logan, etc....not free. Eventually I predict that WiFi will be free and available in most public places, but it was only in the past 2 years that any airport provided it...and it seems that the free WiFi connections provided in some airports are often very shakey and unreliable.

Nonetheless the fees are really annoying. I was in Vegas a few weeks ago and it was so nice to be able to fire up ye olde laptop without some screen popping up and demanding that I pay $8.95 to check in at Skyscraperpage.com.

[john3eblover]

dude, my point was, you can't just "widen" the terminals! Do you have any idea how much that would completely ruin operations at the airport? You think its crowded now?? Hartsfield is fine the way it is, there is a reason its the most efficient airport in the world, handling 80+ million people a year. If you don't like it, drive to Birmingham and take southwest wherever you need to go.

[john3eblover]

And regarding my "attitude", you have been on this thread complaining about Delta and Atlanta many many times. And no offense, but most of your criticisms are fairly naive, and it sounds like you fly once or twice a year. I fly 1-2 times per month. I am in lots of airports in lots of cities. Your complaints are really not fair to Atlanta and Delta. you can't make one time claims about an airline or airport based on one experience that didn't go exactly like you planned it to go. The airline industry is extremely complex. It's not like just jumping in your car and driving 10 minutes somewhere. Its not a limo service to wherever you want to go. If you fly on delta 10 times in 1 year and they suck every time, fine, don't fly Delta anymore. I've been flying for a long time, and i've never had any problems with Delta that I didn't have on any other airline. And so far the worst airlines have been US Airways and United. But thats just my experience. Do you see me boycotting those airlines? No, becuase I realize that they aren't perfect, and that anytime you fly on a commercial airline flight, you are giving up some of the comforts of home to get to your destination quicker than if you just drove. It's a compromise, but everyone knows that.

You cannot compare Las Vegas to Atlanta. Las Vegas handles a fraction of the traffic that Atlanta does, and is much smaller. They also probably receive a ton of money from gambling, etc, so it makes sense that they might be able to spruce up their airport with free Wifi. I have only been to a handful of airports with free wifi to begin with. They are usually small. There is no way ATL is going to offer free wifi, not with 80+ million people using the airport yearly.

[echinatl]

I can't wait until I can toss my aircard in the trash. If my local coffee shop can give me free access why not a major airport? Also, I was sad to see most airlines abandoning in flight broadband and cell phone use testing. I think Alaska Air is the only one still taking a serious look at the tech.

I think Delta could really make a difference in this area. If they would lead the way in allowing in air use of cell phones and broadband access for laptops, they would get a ton of great exposure, and I’m sure a lot of people would fly Delta just for the new services. By allowing someone else to take the lead, they are allowing a potential rival to take away business from them in the future.

[echinatl]

Originally Posted by john3eblover

There is no way ATL is going to offer free wifi, not with 80+ million people using the airport yearly.

I disagree. Remember Google was planning to blanket all of San Fran with free WIFI. I think the initiative lost steam (I haven't followed up in it lately and don't feel like looking it up now ) but my point is if you can provide free wifi to an entire city, you can do it for any size airport. Plus, you can control the location of the access points, for example only outside terminals, or only outside eating areas, or provide specific hotspot areas. Plus you can block access to sites that eat up your bandwidth (youtube, deviantart, ect, ect). It really isn't that hard and they could do it if they wanted to. This is another area that I would love our airport to lead the way in. Take the initiative and provide the best wireless broadband experience of any airport.

[Andrea]

Originally Posted by echinatl

Also, I was sad to see most airlines abandoning in flight broadband and cell phone use testing.

I'm okay with limiting cell phone use in flight (although I've read it really doesn't pose any hazard), mainly because I don't want to be trapped next to somebody who's jabbering away the whole time. You already get that in elevators, restaurants, stores and just about everywhere else. I was in a cafeteria line yesterday and virtually had to shove the two people in front of me to make them move because they were so busy yakking on their cell phones.

However, I don't see why we couldn't have wi-fi on the plane. That would really make travel far more productive and pleasant.

[echinatl]

Originally Posted by Andrea

I'm okay with limiting cell phone use in flight (although I've read it really doesn't pose any hazard), mainly because I don't want to be trapped next to somebody who's jabbering away the whole time. You already get that in elevators, restaurants, stores and just about everywhere else. I was in a cafeteria line yesterday and virtually had to shove the two people in front of me to make them move because they were so busy yakking on their cell phones.

I agree with you on that one, but I feel like there would have to be a way to limit that sort of thing. Maybe charge a reasonable amount extra, like 40 cents a min or something? That would cut down on "call just to talk" situations.

[john3eblover]

Originally Posted by echinatl

I disagree. Remember Google was planning to blanket all of San Fran with free WIFI. I think the initiative lost steam (I haven't followed up in it lately and don't feel like looking it up now ) but my point is if you can provide free wifi to an entire city, you can do it for any size airport. Plus, you can control the location of the access points, for example only outside terminals, or only outside eating areas, or provide specific hotspot areas. Plus you can block access to sites that eat up your bandwidth (youtube, deviantart, ect, ect). It really isn't that hard and they could do it if they wanted to. This is another area that I would love our airport to lead the way in. Take the initiative and provide the best wireless broadband experience of any airport.

my point was, ATL has the potential to make good money off of the millions of people using and paying for internet. It is in their best interest financially to SELL the internet rather than just give it away.

[john3eblover]

Originally Posted by Andrea

I'm okay with limiting cell phone use in flight (although I've read it really doesn't pose any hazard), mainly because I don't want to be trapped next to somebody who's jabbering away the whole time. You already get that in elevators, restaurants, stores and just about everywhere else. I was in a cafeteria line yesterday and virtually had to shove the two people in front of me to make them move because they were so busy yakking on their cell phones.

However, I don't see why we couldn't have wi-fi on the plane. That would really make travel far more productive and pleasant.

I'm sure eventually they'll allow both things on flights, but for now I'd rather just obey the law and not screw around with things I don't understand. The rule exists for a reason, and i'm not willing to risk messing up something on the flight. But I do think wifi on airlines is going to happen pretty soon. I think its just a matter of making the technology available on the planes of most airlines.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17935297/

[echinatl]

Originally Posted by john3eblover

my point was, ATL has the potential to make good money off of the millions of people using and paying for internet. It is in their best interest financially to SELL the internet rather than just give it away.

I can see where you are coming from but I still disagree. A lot of people won't pay, so the amount you are making is from the limited number of people that will. I believe the amount you that you can potentially make off of ad revenue, and also you gain free marketing because people at other airports will say "ugh I have to pay here, WTF it's free in Atlanta".

My stance is the amount you can make by making the service free, is more than what can be made by charging for the service. Part of the gain is actually money, except now from Ads which if done right can be unintrusive and effective (see Google). The other part of the gain is from great PR, it makes the airport just look good. It's like FedEx using hybrid trucks. Will FedEx ever fully recoup the cost of the truck? It's rumored that they won't, but the great and free exposure they are getting from it far outweighs the costs.

Bottom line is this, as it gets cheaper and cheaper to provide wireless broadband eventually it will be free, so do you want to just follow the crowd and go free when everyone else does? Or do you want to be a leader, and pave the path earlier than the other major airports?

[Dragonheart8588]

Originally Posted by john3eblover

And regarding my "attitude", you have been on this thread complaining about Delta and Atlanta many many times. And no offense, but most of your criticisms are fairly naive, and it sounds like you fly once or twice a year. I fly 1-2 times per month. I am in lots of airports in lots of cities. Your complaints are really not fair to Atlanta and Delta. you can't make one time claims about an airline or airport based on one experience that didn't go exactly like you planned it to go. The airline industry is extremely complex. It's not like just jumping in your car and driving 10 minutes somewhere. Its not a limo service to wherever you want to go. If you fly on delta 10 times in 1 year and they suck every time, fine, don't fly Delta anymore. I've been flying for a long time, and i've never had any problems with Delta that I didn't have on any other airline. And so far the worst airlines have been US Airways and United. But thats just my experience. Do you see me boycotting those airlines? No, becuase I realize that they aren't perfect, and that anytime you fly on a commercial airline flight, you are giving up some of the comforts of home to get to your destination quicker than if you just drove. It's a compromise, but everyone knows that.

You cannot compare Las Vegas to Atlanta. Las Vegas handles a fraction of the traffic that Atlanta does, and is much smaller. They also probably receive a ton of money from gambling, etc, so it makes sense that they might be able to spruce up their airport with free Wifi. I have only been to a handful of airports with free wifi to begin with. They are usually small. There is no way ATL is going to offer free wifi, not with 80+ million people using the airport yearly.

Ok. I think it is very fortunate of you to not have bad experiences with Delta and it is YOUR choice not to boycott US air and United and for putting up with them. For me, I have higher standard expect things to somewhat decent. I understand that the airline industry is complex but isn't everything else in the world? If this industry is so complex for Delta, maybe they shouldn't be in it.

You are not having problems with Delta because you actually have good experiences with them or you just happen to ignore the big elephant in the room, just like most people in Atlanta, whom claim that living in city is more convenience, but yet they have just as bad traffic and high crime rate.

You know it doesn't matter if I fly 1 or 2 times a year or 365 times a year. I didn't pay for sub par (i.e. Delta) services and I don't want to deal with one. This is MY choice.

If you feel that I am naive, I am sorry that you feel like that, however, I am yet to be enlighten by your insights.

[Dragonheart8588]

Originally Posted by echinatl

I disagree. Remember Google was planning to blanket all of San Fran with free WIFI. I think the initiative lost steam (I haven't followed up in it lately and don't feel like looking it up now ) but my point is if you can provide free wifi to an entire city, you can do it for any size airport. Plus, you can control the location of the access points, for example only outside terminals, or only outside eating areas, or provide specific hotspot areas. Plus you can block access to sites that eat up your bandwidth (youtube, deviantart, ect, ect). It really isn't that hard and they could do it if they wanted to. This is another area that I would love our airport to lead the way in. Take the initiative and provide the best wireless broadband experience of any airport.

Thank you and my point exactly.

[Dragonheart8588]

Originally Posted by echinatl

I can see where you are coming from but I still disagree. A lot of people won't pay, so the amount you are making is from the limited number of people that will. I believe the amount you that you can potentially make off of ad revenue, and also you gain free marketing because people at other airports will say "ugh I have to pay here, WTF it's free in Atlanta".

My stance is the amount you can make by making the service free, is more than what can be made by charging for the service. Part of the gain is actually money, except now from Ads which if done right can be unintrusive and effective (see Google). The other part of the gain is from great PR, it makes the airport just look good. It's like FedEx using hybrid trucks. Will FedEx ever fully recoup the cost of the truck? It's rumored that they won't, but the great and free exposure they are getting from it far outweighs the costs.

Bottom line is this, as it gets cheaper and cheaper to provide wireless broadband eventually it will be free, so do you want to just follow the crowd and go free when everyone else does? Or do you want to be a leader, and pave the path earlier than the other major airports?

Good Job! Thanks.

Adding to the point:

Also, Google gives away so many free stuffs that it attract people to their website, therefore, higher traffic.

Who would want to pay $8 - $ 11 for wifi when people are only at the airport for no more than a few hours.

[ThrashATL]

Wi-Fi is of use to people who connect at ATL but living here, I've never spent enough time sitting around to even pull out my laptop. I have a Wi-Fi Palm Treo which is incredibly easy to whip out and use but I never have the urge enough to do that. By the time you park at the airport, get your pass and go through security, they're usually boarding when I get to my concourse a mile away from my car. Free Wi-Fi wouldn't work at Atlanta, too many people, you might as well wait til you get home/hotel. The cost free system there would be astronomical.

[Dragonheart8588]

Originally Posted by ThrashATL

Wi-Fi is of use to people who connect at ATL but living here, I've never spent enough time sitting around to even pull out my laptop. I have a Wi-Fi Palm Treo which is incredibly easy to whip out and use but I never have the urge enough to do that. By the time you park at the airport, get your pass and go through security, they're usually boarding when I get to my concourse a mile away from my car. Free Wi-Fi wouldn't work at Atlanta, too many people, you might as well wait til you get home/hotel. The cost free system there would be astronomical.

They are already have a Wifi system, making it free is not hard. I see bunch of people with their laptop open trying to get some work done at the airport. And like other posts said about restricting website like youtube and other sites that demand high bandwidth. Also, I doubt that we have that high of a percentage of travelers that have laptop with them, therefore, bandwidth shouldn't be an issue.

I agree with you about having a treo, because my roommate have one and he use the internet on his phone to his laptop all the time. I am considering purchasing one, but haven't find that one really good reason yet.

[echinatl]

Originally Posted by ThrashATL

Wi-Fi is of use to people who connect at ATL but living here, I've never spent enough time sitting around to even pull out my laptop. I have a Wi-Fi Palm Treo which is incredibly easy to whip out and use but I never have the urge enough to do that. By the time you park at the airport, get your pass and go through security, they're usually boarding when I get to my concourse a mile away from my car. Free Wi-Fi wouldn't work at Atlanta, too many people, you might as well wait til you get home/hotel. The cost free system there would be astronomical.

I work in the IT field so perhaps my internet needs are greater than others, but if I'm ever not doing something, I like to go online. I have a lot of friends that are not in the IT field and they are also the same way. I'm trying to see it from your perspective which is not many people want the service correct? I fly a lot, and I've noticed that more and more people bring their laptops with them, so if the demand is not high now, from my personal observations it seems to be growing.

I also don't like to cut it as close as it seems you do, by the time i'm done checking in and going through all that I still have at least 30 min of bored sitting around time. With ATl traffic I'm always scared I'll miss my flight!

I also feel that you are overestimating not only the implementation costs but also the upkeep and monthly usage costs.

That's just what I think!

[GTviajero81]

Originally Posted by Dragonheart8588

... I understand that the airline industry is complex but isn't everything else in the world? If this industry is so complex for Delta, maybe they shouldn't be in it.

You are not having problems with Delta because you actually have good experiences with them or you just happen to ignore the big elephant in the room, just like most people in Atlanta, whom claim that living in city is more convenience, but yet they have just as bad traffic and high crime rate.

You know it doesn't matter if I fly 1 or 2 times a year or 365 times a year. I didn't pay for sub par (i.e. Delta) services and I don't want to deal with one. This is MY choice....

And see my friends, this is what those of us who work in the airline industry deal with day in and day out. A statement such as,

"I understand that the airline industry is complex but isn't everything else in the world? If this industry is so complex for Delta, maybe they shouldn't be in it."
makes no sense. Show me a company, with the scope of an operation like an international airline, in any industry that runs perfectly and then we (fellow airline workers) shall agree with said statement. Otherwise, c'est la vie.

Now this statement:

"
You are not having problems with Delta because you actually have good experiences with them or you just happen to ignore the big elephant in the room, just like most people in Atlanta, whom claim that living in city is more convenience, but yet they have just as bad traffic and high crime rate."

doesn't really hold water. I live in the city. And I laugh at all the poor suckers when one hears the traffic report of, "Right now trip times on 400 from Hwy 20 to the Perimeter is one hour and 20 minutes. Forget about the Inner Loop as trip times from 75 to 78 are well in excess of over an hour......"

Yeah, right! I've gotten so used to quick trips in my car that my drive to work at the airport tires me as it is my longest trip...East Atlanta to the airport. Wow! And the regarding the crime thing...I feel more wary about walking around parts of Norcross and Riverdale than I do in Downtown/Midtown.

And now the statement that really got me:

"You know it doesn't matter if I fly 1 or 2 times a year or 365 times a year. I didn't pay for sub par (i.e. Delta) services and I don't want to deal with one. This is MY choice..."
You didn't pay for sub-par service? Correct me if I am wrong but I do recall a few pages back you ended up flying on so many carriers in order to obtain the cheapest ticket. More power to you, and there is totally nothing wrong in procuring the best deals, but buddy, you and the majority of the flying public need to realise something...YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!

Talk to us about sub-par service when you buy a Y-Fare or Business or First. I don't think many people realise what sub-par service truly is. Sub-par is paying for something and not getting your money's worth. If you pay US$99 to fly cross-country do realise that you will get basic service. If you pay US$699 to fly in Business Class to the West Coast, well then you shall be treated quite commensurately. I loathe to think what would happen should carriers like Ryanair or Aer Lingus were to operate in the US on a domestic basis (I know that there is SkyBus, but their presence is hardly felt in the grand scheme of all things in US Aviation). Imagine being sold lottery tickets in-flight under the guise of "giving money to poor Irish orphanages". Or having to pay Euros3.50 for literally a cup of water or tea. A hot panini, if I recall, is about Euros8-10 (It's been about a month since I last flew on them).

In the end all that I am saying is that we in airline business don't purposely set out to make one's flying experience a misery... in fact quite the opposite. Our day is better when your day is better. With that being said, we can only operate within the parameters/tools that we are given -- and when passengers/customers demand lower/barebones fares, well then, we are obliged to meet such demands and consequently have to eliminate some amenities.

[STrek777]

Originally Posted by GTviajero81

And see my friends, this is what those of us who work in the airline industry deal with day in and day out. A statement such as,

"I understand that the airline industry is complex but isn't everything else in the world? If this industry is so complex for Delta, maybe they shouldn't be in it."
makes no sense. Show me a company, with the scope of an operation like an international airline, in any industry that runs perfectly and then we (fellow airline workers) shall agree with said statement. Otherwise, c'est la vie.

Now this statement:

"
You are not having problems with Delta because you actually have good experiences with them or you just happen to ignore the big elephant in the room, just like most people in Atlanta, whom claim that living in city is more convenience, but yet they have just as bad traffic and high crime rate."

doesn't really hold water. I live in the city. And I laugh at all the poor suckers when one hears the traffic report of, "Right now trip times on 400 from Hwy 20 to the Perimeter is one hour and 20 minutes. Forget about the Inner Loop as trip times from 75 to 78 are well in excess of over an hour......"

Yeah, right! I've gotten so used to quick trips in my car that my drive to work at the airport tires me as it is my longest trip...East Atlanta to the airport. Wow! And the regarding the crime thing...I feel more wary about walking around parts of Norcross and Riverdale than I do in Downtown/Midtown.

And now the statement that really got me:

"You know it doesn't matter if I fly 1 or 2 times a year or 365 times a year. I didn't pay for sub par (i.e. Delta) services and I don't want to deal with one. This is MY choice..."
You didn't pay for sub-par service? Correct me if I am wrong but I do recall a few pages back you ended up flying on so many carriers in order to obtain the cheapest ticket. More power to you, and there is totally nothing wrong in procuring the best deals, but buddy, you and the majority of the flying public need to realise something...YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!

Talk to us about sub-par service when you buy a Y-Fare or Business or First. I don't think many people realise what sub-par service truly is. Sub-par is paying for something and not getting your money's worth. If you pay US$99 to fly cross-country do realise that you will get basic service. If you pay US$699 to fly in Business Class to the West Coast, well then you shall be treated quite commensurately. I loathe to think what would happen should carriers like Ryanair or Aer Lingus were to operate in the US on a domestic basis (I know that there is SkyBus, but their presence is hardly felt in the grand scheme of all things in US Aviation). Imagine being sold lottery tickets in-flight under the guise of "giving money to poor Irish orphanages". Or having to pay Euros3.50 for literally a cup of water or tea. A hot panini, if I recall, is about Euros8-10 (It's been about a month since I last flew on them).

In the end all that I am saying is that we in airline business don't purposely set out to make one's flying experience a misery... in fact quite the opposite. Our day is better when your day is better. With that being said, we can only operate within the parameters/tools that we are given -- and when passengers/customers demand lower/barebones fares, well then, we are obliged to meet such demands and consequently have to eliminate some amenities.

That was refreshing! Oh and you totally brought up the Y-fare... that was great. Now what really blows my mind are those that travel internationally on one of those J-fares.

I wanted so much to respond to that post but I am really glad that I waited because yours was briliant. However, trying to explain the industry to an outsider is a lost cause. You really have to be in it to get it unless you are a Million Miler Platinum Medallion. hehehehe

[GTviajero81]

Thanks. I tell you, if there is anything that I have learned whilst in this business is intense patience. When one is holed up with customers all day long patience in describing and informing them on policies, raisons d'etre, and circumstances generally comes with the territory. The main thing is to realise that most people do not get frustrated at the actual situation that they are in, but instead are frustrated at the explicit lack of control and general ignorance to the reasons behind the modus operandi.