The Ultimate Vancouver Rumour Thread!

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by jo67sh

what is the future of BC place stadium after the olympics..
i heard somewhere that the place would be torn down for condos..

who owns the stadium now?

i thought the whole concept of olympics is leaving a legacy...
it would be a shame to tear down the location of opening and closing ceremonies..instead, it shouldbe kept indefinitely

They're only spending about $5 million for Olympic renovations on the stadium, so there isn't much of a legacy in the first place to this 25 year old marshmallow.

The stadium being teared down for condos are only rumours. It's owned by Pavco, a provincial crown corporation. And it'll be only all that much more likely with the convention centre completed (especially if it's underbooked) and if Whitecaps Stadium is built.

The Lions owners have made known that they would like to buy the stadium and do some major renovations to make it a money making facility. Note that the Lions cannot share stadiums with the Whitecaps at their proposed facility on the Waterfront since the Whitecaps intend on entering the MLS, which requires a soccer specific facility...not to mention the Lions would want a larger facility than what the Whitecaps want.

[Hot Rod]

if MLS requires soccer specific stadiums, then why was Seattle awarded a franchise for 2009??? Seattle does not have a soccer specific stadium nor is there a plan for a soccer stadium nor will there ever be. Furthermore, the team will play at Qwest Field (a NFL football stadium), and the team will be owned in part by NFL Seattle Seahawks owner Paul Allen.

Seems like Vancouver either has the wrong storey or is selling itself short with regard to the need for a soccer specific stadium in order to enter the MLS. Why do we need the whitecaps stadium (and if we do need a soccer specific, why does it have to be downtown on the waterfront???)?????

I say, renovate or rebuild (with a smaller footprint) GM Place. Build a retractable roof and modern luxury suites and concessions/amenities. Make it top dollar and make it like Qwest (so the CFL and MLS can play there). In doing this, we could also maximize the use of the stadium.

We need to upgrade and use what we got. I dont see the need to destroy the waterfront with a soccer specific stadium that would be used 10 times a year. ....???

[Canadian Mind]

I don't think the waterfront would be destroyed, that is a dead area and a well-designed stadium could potentially be the crown jewel Vancouver's waterfront needs (ala the Sydney opera house and bridge).

[Smooth]

Originally Posted by mr.x2

They're only spending about $5 million for Olympic renovations on the stadium, so there isn't much of a legacy in the first place to this 25 year old marshmallow.

The stadium being teared down for condos are only rumours. It's owned by Pavco, a provincial crown corporation. And it'll be only all that much more likely with the convention centre completed (especially if it's underbooked) and if Whitecaps Stadium is built.

The Lions owners have made known that they would like to buy the stadium and do some major renovations to make it a money making facility. Note that the Lions cannot share stadiums with the Whitecaps at their proposed facility on the Waterfront since the Whitecaps intend on entering the MLS, which requires a soccer specific facility...not to mention the Lions would want a larger facility than what the Whitecaps want.

I spoke with Bob Lenarduzzi at one of the waterfront stadium open houses and he said the Whitecaps approached the Lions about having both teams using the stadium. He suggested that one of the reasons the Lions didn't sign on to making the move was that they didn't want the Province to have a reason to break the Lion's long term lease with BC Place.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Lions made the move to the waterfront stadium once it was a sure bet.

[jlousa]

The Lions have sold 43K tickets for this weekends game already, they will have over 50K at the game. The grey cup games which we get every few years sell over 60K tickets. Don't see why the Lions would be interested in limiting themselves to only 30K a game. I don't have the numbers but I wouldn't be surprised if the lions average more then 30K for regular season games, even if they don't I'm sure their plan is to average more then that.

Pavco should rename the stadium after Terry Fox, and invest some money into it then people would stop talking about knocking it down. The new convention centre is still too small for the auto shows/boat show/home and garden show. The larger trade shows will still need a stadium.

[hollywoodnorth]

Originally Posted by jlousa

Pavco should rename the stadium after Terry Fox, and invest some money into it then people would stop talking about knocking it down. The new convention centre is still too small for the auto shows/boat show/home and garden show. The larger trade shows will still need a stadium.

hehehe that is brilliant! Terry Fox Place does have a nice ring to it

[Hot Rod]

Well, here is what I say. We want to be in the MLS and we DONT need an MLS soccer specific stadium - unlike what many here have been preaching. I think, we should redo BC Place ala Qwest Field - with seating of at least 60K so that we could attract ALL events (Grey Cup, World Cup, so on).

We need to think BIG and utilize what we got. I think rebuilding BC Place we could free up space (shrinking the footprint) and then get rid of many of those lots that surround it (add in retail parkades, which in themselves should be attractions on off-game days).

I just dont think we should build a soccer specific stadium on the waterfront. I do agree it needs to be developed, but I would prefer a combination office district expansion/urban village. I think we should use the area for our next tallest, over 800 feet - I say this because looking at the Shangri-La from the water, it really isnt as much of an impact on the skyline as we previously thought and since the waterfront is some 150 feet lower than the base of Shangri-La,

we should be able to build a 850 ft tower without it being too much taller than the rest of downtown - yet still being significant, since you'd see the WHOLE tower due to its waterfront location. I'd say, the building should be a World Trade Center OR International Finance Center - Vancouver. It should be Iconic and be the basis for the new Vancouver!!

I'd much rather have jobs at the waterfront location (SkyTrain intermodal station RIGHT THERE!!!) than build a stadium there that would only be used 10-15 times a year (and certainly not one that is ONLY 15K or even 30K seats - toooo small). Let's do it right, rebuild BC Place into a 65K seat retractable roof palace and make the surrounding area a TRUE major-league entertainment district!!!

[jlousa]

The waterfront stadium will get built, I only hope it gets built over the seabus terminal (Location#2). Having a MLS vancouver team play in a 60K stadium would be pointless. They need a 30K stadium max to succeed (atomsphere is what the whitecaps have been lacking since they left the PNE), also the stadium would be used for concerts/VSO events, rugbym tennis etc. I'm pretty sure Kerfoot didn't get rich building white elephants. As far as a 800ft tower in that location, it will never happen in any of our lifetimes. That area belongs to the VPA plus Gastown residents would never let it happen. It isn't about Nimbism, it's just not the approprate place.

I drew up a plan ages ago of what I'd love the area to look like, not that I think it'd happen but I'm sure most Gastown residents would agree with it.

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by Hot Rod

Well, here is what I say. We want to be in the MLS and we DONT need an MLS soccer specific stadium - unlike what many here have been preaching. I think, we should redo BC Place ala Qwest Field - with seating of at least 60K so that we could attract ALL events (Grey Cup, World Cup, so on).

We need to think BIG and utilize what we got. I think rebuilding BC Place we could free up space (shrinking the footprint) and then get rid of many of those lots that surround it (add in retail parkades, which in themselves should be attractions on off-game days).

I just dont think we should build a soccer specific stadium on the waterfront. I do agree it needs to be developed, but I would prefer a combination office district expansion/urban village. I think we should use the area for our next tallest, over 800 feet - I say this because looking at the Shangri-La from the water, it really isnt as much of an impact on the skyline as we previously thought and since the waterfront is some 150 feet lower than the base of Shangri-La,

we should be able to build a 850 ft tower without it being too much taller than the rest of downtown - yet still being significant, since you'd see the WHOLE tower due to its waterfront location. I'd say, the building should be a World Trade Center OR International Finance Center - Vancouver. It should be Iconic and be the basis for the new Vancouver!!

I'd much rather have jobs at the waterfront location (SkyTrain intermodal station RIGHT THERE!!!) than build a stadium there that would only be used 10-15 times a year (and certainly not one that is ONLY 15K or even 30K seats - toooo small). Let's do it right, rebuild BC Place into a 65K seat retractable roof palace and make the surrounding area a TRUE major-league entertainment district!!!

I dont know what your issue with the waterfront stadium is, but this is your second post today blasting the idea. I for one think it is a great idea, and a chance to have an iconic waterfront showpeice for Vancouver. Realistically im sure we will end up with some architechturally mediocre but incredibly functional tame stadium.... but that setting cannot be beat. And it wouldnt only be used 10-15 times per year, but could be used for many different events, from outdoor rock concerts with the most incredible backdrops in the world, or space for a myriad of sporting tournaments, including rugby soccer and many more.

Furthermore where is the money going to be coming from to build a 65k seat retractable stadium??? The CFL?? HA! they barely have enough money to keep the dome inflated. And how rediculious would it be to have the Whitecaps play in a half empty stadium every game. Even most of the teams in the English Premiership have little more than 30 000 person stadiums. Lets wait for the NFL to expand to Canada before we even begin to discuss anything of this magnatude.

The soccer stadium on the waterfront will also not be the only development on the waterfront, it will surely be accompanied by well planned residential and commercial neighbourhoods, and the stadium will be the centerpeice of the latest waterfront neighbourhood in Vanocuver, and what we can only hope is the latest urban planing showpeice and success story.

I mean how many other cities can boast a waterfront stadium like the proposed stadium here, with the surrounding mountains to boot. It will not only all but guarantee Vancouver an MLS team, but would probably help Vancouver attract even more big ticket performances and one time events.

PS: as a sad but true side note, you need international finance or world trade to support a building of such significance... something Vancouver is notably lacking.

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by jlousa

I drew up a plan ages ago of what I'd love the area to look like, not that I think it'd happen but I'm sure most Gastown residents would agree with it.

You wouldnt happen to have that kicking around/be willing to share it with us would you?

[TwoFace]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

PS: as a sad but true side note, you need international finance or world trade to support a building of such significance... something Vancouver is notably lacking.

HUH, Vancouver’s Real Estate Boom is mostly based on Foreign Investment. Coal Harbour and Concord Pacific were both made possible due to Asian financing.
Most of the current developments are Foreign financed and owned: Shangri-La, Ritz Carlton, Georgia, Fairmont, West Pender, Lagoon, etc

[LeftCoaster]

^International finance usually refers to the finance industry (ie investment firms, brokerage houses, stock markets etc...) not the financing of businesses. Vancouver is home to an unfortunately low number of these types of firms. Sorry for the confusion, quite poorly worded in retrospect.

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by hollywoodnorth

hehehe that is brilliant! Terry Fox Place does have a nice ring to it

Been there, done that. That idea was floated around the time the dome was built in the early eighties but was shot down when it was decided that it would be too difficult for non Canadians to recognize the name and associate it with Vancouver and British Columbia. The Terry Fox Plaza was thought to be a more suitable idea to honor the local legend.

[agrant]

It's just a matter of time before the name BC Place is changed to something more corporate, like Starbucks Stadium. Or heaven forbid, Starbucks Place.

[deasine]

Delete

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

I dont know what your issue with the waterfront stadium is, but this is your second post today blasting the idea. I for one think it is a great idea, and a chance to have an iconic waterfront showpeice for Vancouver. Realistically im sure we will end up with some architechturally mediocre but incredibly functional tame stadium.... but that setting cannot be beat. And it wouldnt only be used 10-15 times per year, but could be used for many different events, from outdoor rock concerts with the most incredible backdrops in the world, or space for a myriad of sporting tournaments, including rugby soccer and many more.

Furthermore where is the money going to be coming from to build a 65k seat retractable stadium??? The CFL?? HA! they barely have enough money to keep the dome inflated. And how rediculious would it be to have the Whitecaps play in a half empty stadium every game. Even most of the teams in the English Premiership have little more than 30 000 person stadiums. Lets wait for the NFL to expand to Canada before we even begin to discuss anything of this magnatude.

The soccer stadium on the waterfront will also not be the only development on the waterfront, it will surely be accompanied by well planned residential and commercial neighbourhoods, and the stadium will be the centerpeice of the latest waterfront neighbourhood in Vanocuver, and what we can only hope is the latest urban planing showpeice and success story.

I mean how many other cities can boast a waterfront stadium like the proposed stadium here, with the surrounding mountains to boot. It will not only all but guarantee Vancouver an MLS team, but would probably help Vancouver attract even more big ticket performances and one time events.

PS: as a sad but true side note, you need international finance or world trade to support a building of such significance... something Vancouver is notably lacking.

I completely agree...lets be realistic, this new stadium will be a gift for us - it's completely free - no public funds needed.

If you want to rebuild BC Place as a 65,000 seat retractable roofer, you're looking at costs at least of $500 million....and who's going to pay for it?

Also, the Whitecaps don't want to be stuck in the middle of a 65,000 seater. They don't need 65,000 seats...even in the future, all they will probably need is 30,000 seats at the most. The goal is to create an intimate European-style soccer stadium, with fabulous Vancouver views as a backdrop, and as one of the most transit friendly stadium in the world. We all know how empty seats ruin the atmosphere of a game - e.g. upper bowl of BC Place empty during Lions games, Athens Olympics, Torino Olympics, etc.

With regarding usage, a stadium being used 10-15 times a year? If that were the case, which it isn't, there's absolutely no business case to build a new stadium. In fact, there wouldn't be even a business case for stadiums to exist in the city.

The real number in usage will be about 100 events/days per year, with about 1/3rd of those being Whitecaps Mens AND Women's games. Other functions include International soccer featuring Canada's National Men's & Women's teams, plus top level club teams, Amazing outdoor concerts and music festivals, International rugby matches and tournaments, Summer performances by the Vancouver Symphony Orchestra, Vancouver International Jazz Festival, Professional beach volleyball, Corporate sports days, University & Provincial soccer & rugby, Movies under the stars, X Games & Motocross, Annual Vancouver Birthday Celebration, conventions (especially being right next to the convention centre), Tennis matches & tournaments, and Ethnic & community festivals.

Not to mention, if you look at the most recent rendering you will see that there's an office/retail/hotel/residential component above the stadium that will act as the entry point into the stadium.

[mr.x]

Vancouver excluded from Major League Soccer expansion
Dan Stinson, Vancouver Sun
Published: Tuesday, November 13, 2007

The Vancouver Whitecaps won't be included in Major League Soccer's expansion plans - at least in the foreseeable future - unless the team has a proper stadium in which to play, says MLS commissioner Don Garber.

Speaking from Seattle, where he announced earlier today that a still-to-be-named Seattle expansion franchise will join MLS in 2009, Garber said that until the Whitecaps have a stadium plan in place "we are unable to make any commitments to Vancouver."

As things stand now, the Whitecaps may already be out of the running to join North America's premier soccer circuit.

Garber, who has visited Vancouver and met with Whitecaps officials including team owner Greg Kerfoot, described the city as "a wonderful soccer market that has had a lot of success in soccer."

But he stressed that Vancouver must have a proper stadium to be considered for MLS expansion.

"The key for Vancouver is being sure they have a stadium plan," Garber said. "It's the third leg of the stool to give the city an opportunity to be part of the mix in future MLS expansion."

MLS will add a 14th franchise, the reborn San Jose Earthquakes, in 2008. Garber said the league hopes to add a 16th franchise by the end of this year before Seattle comes aboard in 2009.

MLS has long-range plans for 17th and 18th franchises, but Garber said no timeline has been place on that expansion.

"Many cities across the United States, plus Montreal, have indicated interest in becoming the 17th and 18th franchises," Garber said.

"We would give priority to the cities that have proper stadiums and the right business plans. Vancouver can only get into that mix with a proper stadium."

The Whitecaps announced in October 2005 their plans to build Whitecaps Waterfront Stadium, a planned 15,000-seat facility on Vancouver's waterfront in the Gastown area.

The cost of the stadium will be covered by Kerfoot.

But Whitecaps president Bob Lenarduzzi said the stadium project has been delayed by slow-moving negotiations with the Vancouver Port Authority on "a number of issues."

"We're not moving along as quickly as we need to be on this project," said Lenarduzzi. "A proper stadium here is the issue with MLS. I don't know how it can be put any stronger than Don Garber did today."

Lenarduzzi said that negotiations have been so slow with the Port Authority that the Whitecaps can't put a firm timeline on completion of the stadium.

"The best-case scenario now is sometime in 2011," he said.

Garber said that might be too late for the Whitecaps to be considered as an MLS expansion team. "Two of the many cities that Vancouver is competing with for an expansion franchise are Portland and Montreal," said Garber. "Both of those cities are in the mix because they have stadium plans in place. It's hard to imagine Vancouver being part of MLS without a proper stadium."

The stadium project will go to Vancouver city council for final approval after the Whitecaps' negotiations with the Port Authority have successfully concluded.

City councillor Suzanne Anton said she will urge council to act quickly on final approval. "Negotiations with the Port Authority are primarily centred on where the stadium will be located," said Anton. "It's not resolved yet, but the process needs to be speeded up. We have a wonderful opportunity here for a first-class facility that will serve many, many purposes, including soccer. I will urge council to move forward quickly on this project."

The Whitecaps currently play in the second-tier United Soccer Leagues First Division at 5,200-seat Swangard Stadium in Burnaby.

Swangard Stadium doesn't come close to meeting MLS seating requirements.

"Ideally, we want 18,000 to 27,000-seat stadiums in MLS," said Garber. "That's the appropriate size. But we'd rather be closer to 18,000 because of the intimacy those stadiums have."

The Seattle Sounders will play their final USLFD season in 2008 before the Seattle MLS entry moves into 72,000-seat Qwest Field in 2009.


Qwest Field will have a capacity of about 25,000 for MLS games. Lenarduzzi said moving into 60,000-seat BC Place Stadium is not an option for the Whitecaps, even on a temporary basis as negotiations continue on the waterfront stadium.

"BC Place Stadium is not an option, both financially and as a proper facility," he said. "First impressions with the public are very important. We want a stadium that our fans can identify with, and be comfortable with, from the very first game."

[email protected]




and what did i tell ya?....well, i told you so.

[Rusty Gull]

HUH, Vancouver’s Real Estate Boom is mostly based on Foreign Investment. Coal Harbour and Concord Pacific were both made possible due to Asian financing.
Most of the current developments are Foreign financed and owned: Shangri-La, Ritz Carlton, Georgia, Fairmont, West Pender, Lagoon, etc

Do you have your facts straight on this?

I understand that Concord Pacific was made possible due to financing from Asia-based investors (although a consortium of Canadian investors also wanted to buy the Expo lands), but many of the buildings in Coal Harbour were financed by Canadians.

As for Shangri-La, it's true that Shangri-La Hotels of Hong Kong will operate the hotel there, but they are not involved in the financing/development of the tower. In fact, it's the condominium sales that make the existence of the hotel in this building possible.

As for your foreign ownership assertion, that's also debatable. Bob Rennie has been quoted as saying that the breakdown for condo buyers downtown between Canadians and foreigners (in new developments) is much more balanced.

[TwoFace]

Originally Posted by Rusty Gull

Do you have your facts straight on this?

I understand that Concord Pacific was made possible due to financing from Asia-based investors (although a consortium of Canadian investors also wanted to buy the Expo lands), but many of the buildings in Coal Harbour were financed by Canadians.
.

According to the Vancouver Magazine:

Walter, Raymond and Thomas Kwok (Owners, Aspac Developments Ltd.) The Kwok brothers prefer to keep a low profile, even if their city-changing buildings don’t. A joint-venture partnership in 1993 with Marathon Developments, the real estate arm of CP Rail, is developing the coveted former railway lands in Coal Harbour.

Under this agreement, Aspac co-owns the land and 100 percent of the residential developments. The recently completed five-tower Waterfront Place is the first phase of the project. The second, Harbour Green Place, will consist of three towers, with suites selling from $1 million to $6 million. The skyline-defining buildings will contain more than 1,000 units.

Local accomplishments are dwarfed, however, by the Kwoks’ interests in Asia. Named 42nd on Forbes magazine’s list of the world’s richest people, the three brothers have an estimated worth of $6.6 billion.

Their public company, Sun Hung Kai Properties, just completed the tallest building in Hong Kong, an 88-storey office, shopping, entertainment and hotel complex. They’ve recently made ground in mainland China with office and shopping centres and also own an Internet provider, mobile phone services, toll roads, a franchised bus operation, port business and airport-related projects. SHKP was recently named Asia’s best developer by Finance Asia.

[Hot Rod]

Personally, I dont think we need the MLS. Vancouver is a world class city without it, we dont need somebody telling us that we need a soccer specific stadium yet at the same time letting Seattle get away with playing at a football stadium.

I honestly dont really see what you guys have such a hard on about being in the MLS. And I certainly dont understand why the MLS has such a hard on for a soccer specific stadium before they'd come here.

If it was so great, then they could play at BC place. Why is it 'NOT AN OPTION???'