Salt Lake:Official development news thread

[DMTower]

While I do believe the homeless could use our help getting back on their feet, I disagree that it would be unfair to move the shelter. The people who go to the shelter are in a difficult spot in their lives and need help, but I don't think they get to be picky about where that help is provided... I don't mean to be callous, but when they are getting a free roof over their head I think they can cooperate as much as moving a few blocks. If they feel inconvenienced they can always choose where to live when they have found a steady income.

[Orlando]

Does anybody have pics of the new 3rd south medians?

I like the idea of moving some of the homeless problem to Sandy. They want to be other downtown, so give them the good and the bad.

[delts145]

Originally Posted by millhouse

Not that the Homeless conversation isn’t intriguing and all. I just thought of a slight deviation in topic might be nice. My wife and I are considering building a small home and I thought I'd seek the opinions of architectural nuts such as myself.

I couldnt get the image to work. Click here to see the design.

We are going to modify the plan slightly. Thank goodness for all those years of drafting. Honestly. What do you think?

Beautiful design Millhouse!! That's about as charming,warm and inviting as a person could ever hope for in a home. Please describe for us your modifications.

[millhouse]

Originally Posted by delts145

Beatutiful design Millhouse!! That's about as charming,warm and inviting as a person could ever hope for in a home. Please describe for us your modifications.

The home currently does not have a garage. As designed it has one bedroom on each level a tiny kitchen and a crawl space for the foundation.

For the sake of orientation lets say the front door faces south. On the northwest corner of the home we would add a two car garage and a mud room. I’m looking at moving the wall of the kitchen about four feet to the west and moving the stair case about three feet to the east. We would add a basement and if I can squeeze it into the budget. I would make the garage floor a suspended slab allowing for a home theater or storage space under the garage. The second floor layout would be completely reworked. In place of the vaulted ceiling and master bedroom would be two bedrooms sharing access to a small bathroom. Over the two car garage would be the new master bedroom. I know the details are a bit sketchy but I’m working on them.
Ill post the new layout once I get it done.

[Future Mayor]

I like the design too. It would also fit in the lower sugarhouse liberty park area, or as me and my hommies in the neighborhood call it "The LP" ok really it's just me that calls it that. There are many homes in the area that have that a frame design, yet most of them are single story. I would go Ogden as well, rather than Layton.

As for the homeless shelter, yes there would be issues and cries for treating them better. However if they were to move them there could be a concerted effort to improve the entire situation. Rather than simply move the shelter to a new location, concentrate on the fact that Welfare square is nearby, that transitional housing is nearby and if they were to make the shelter larger with greater capacity and include more social service services in the new building or in the neighborhood the move would be logical. We wouldn't be simply moving them we would be moving them to accommodate more and to better serve them in the process. To move them just to move them is saying "We don't want the homeless getting in the way of us spending our money on shopping and entertainment!" but to move them under what I laid out would say "we are moving them for two reasons, first to better serve them and accommodate a greater population and to open economic development opportunities in a high demand neighborhood."

[WASDEN]

Are the homeless there because of the shelter, or is the shelter there because of the homeless? I'll bet the homeless roamed that neighborhood even before the shelter, and will continue to do so even if its moved. The Homeless are a part of the mix in every major city in the United States, and believe me Salt Lake certainly does not share the same burden as most other cities!

Many of these folks are not just "down on their luck," they are mentally ill and cannot just check into Sunrise Metro and "get their lives back on track." Imagine if you suffered from severe paranoid Schizophrenia,- you'd go nuts in such a place because you're suspicious of the system! This is the reason the term "chronically homeless" exists- and its not going to go away or be moved down the street. Start talking like that and we'll have to move the City Library too (or maybe you haven't noticed that the majority of peolpe reading books next to you are- yikes! homeless!)

Personally I liked the idea of a mounted officer for Pioneer Park. Not only is it a more flexible solution as opposed to a multimillion dollar renovation or Big Brother cameras, I think it would add to the urban vibe. If it didn't work, we could always sell the horse

[Sight-Seer]

I was at the gateway one day, sitting on a bench, when a man with a dribble of dried snot under his nose began to talk to me abusively. A cop came up and hustled him away. Is this part of the cultural inclusiveness and diversity we're talking about? Where we all are living together in harmony? Is it really benefiting this man and others like him to be thrust into situations that are mutually uncomfortable and unhealthy, in which he would then be forcefully ejected by police baby-sitters? Another time I went to a movie and left my car at the Rio Grande parking lot. When I got back quite late, there was a lot of the delightful diverse community activities going on which were undoubtedly being enjoyed by all. Part of the iron fence had been flattened by an intoxicated driver; the police had pulled over a van and were "conversing" with the occupants; the sidewalk was lined with the "local color".

The homeless shelter and all homeless benefits must go. Move them west along North Temple across the freeway and tracks, near where the future airport light rail will go. It is now a commercial area. Better yet, move it farther west near the Utah state offices. The employees will then constantly be reminded who it is they're serving.

[Logline]

I agree and am glad to see most of you have shunned the political correctness that stifles telling the truth about the homeless problem downtown. I have little to no patience anymore. I see it almost every day. Less than a week ago, I walked past a man openly smoking crack on the sidewalk 1/2 block from my home. I wanted to punch him in the face. I have no sympathy for addicts or drug dealers or pan-handlers anymore. I used to be sympathetic, but if you live here, you get jaded very quickly. If Becker does ANYTHING worthy, it'll be to clean up downtown.

Also, and this is important: DO NOT GIVE CHANGE TO BEGGARS! Spread the word to all your friends and family. It only perpetuates the problem and creates an "economy of poverty" which makes them beg for more. It teaches that you don't have to work for money. Just STOP it. Say "No, sorry. Not today" and they'll leave you alone. I can't believe how many people feed the monster here. If you want to see what it leads to, go hang out in Santa Monica. Not pretty.

[Scraperdude801]

"the monster" ... "local color"

you guys are arm-chair activists spreading ignorance. ... DO YOU REALIZE THAT 25% OF THE HOMELESS POPULATION ARE VETERANS? ... That alot of these men acquired their addictions while serving our country? Men who have serious psychological issues from the horror's they have seen and been a part of for your sake. ... What the hell do you know about an addiction? Saying non-sensical shit like "I have no sympathy for them... blah blah blah". Maybe you should realize the reality of a situation before you open your mouth. I have family who fight that struggle who are very good people, they just GOT ADDICTED. No, not by searching for it consciously. I have a brother who was prescribed Oxy Cotton for pain meds after his knee surgery. The drug is so powerful he got addicted and couldn't quit. Oxy Cotton is basically synthetic Herrouine, and herrouine on the streets is a lot cheaper than Oxy Cotton so he made the switch. ... If I haven't seen the power of these drugs in my own family I wouldn't believe it. So please before you go pointing the finger of blame and looking for the beam in your brother's eye, take care of the mote in your own.

Realize that these people need help. No I don't mean enabling, but I mean help. They need new and creative services to help them win their own battles and get on their feet again. Saying just move them out just so you don't have to deal with them is ridiculous. The problem will only get worse. ... I love how whenever there is a problem on the east side the solution is "move em west". ... Are you trying to build a ghetto? The west side already has some hard neighborhoods that are in dire need of help. Relocating every person you think is undesireable over their is only going to make matters worse. That is not a solution, it is only a recipe for more crime and more poverty. ... Issues like these are not so cut and dry. You can't just forget about them.

[delts145]

Responding in a very heated manner to those who are justifiably frustrated, because of having to deal with this issue on a daily basis, either because they live and or work in the heart of this problem, will resolve nothing. There have been many pro-active and worthwhile thoughts presented. One of the best is below and I think shows both a wonderful spirit of true charity and moving toward a sensible resolution. I feel Makid has a little more moral authority in this situation than most of us, and it shows through very clearly.

Originally Posted by Makid

If they do move the Shelter I think that it would be best near 8th and 8th. Put it on the east side of I-15.

This will put it close to "Welfare Square" and also it is close to the permanent housing that they are putting into the remodeled hotel/motel.

This isn't out of sight out of mind. This is putting the shelter into an area where there is more support for the people that are actively trying to get back onto their feet.

The city and private donations could be used to increase workshops, housing and training job opportunities in that area. Which would help to revitalize that area.

The homelessness problem is not about ignoring the problem, it is about actively working to solve the problem. Leaving the shelter where it is would just cause more people to ignore the problem. Putting people into "Projects" would just ignore the problem.

The city, with the help of private donations and the LDS Church are creating the permanent home for the chronic homeless. The rent is only going to be a percentage of their income. If they have no income but can show they are looking for work, they can stay rent free. If they have a job, they only pay a percentage of what they are making, regardless of what they are making.

This program will ensure that those who want to work will have a permanent address. Once they are on their feet, they can stay or they can look for a better place to live with the assistance of this program.

These people are not scum and need to be moved around continuously, these people need other people to assist them in getting their lives turned back around.

By consolidating services, this will free up people and money to assist people better. This is saying that there will be a better return on investment. But for this to work, we must first invest into it.

I volunteer at "Welfare Square" regularly to assist people in getting on their feet by treating them with dignity but to also remind myself that without the help of peoples donations and volunteering their time, I might not be where I am today.

Btw, I was in the Army, became disabled and came back to Utah as this is where I am from and my family resides. I and my wife were homeless for a few months. Without the help of the homeless shelter and "Welfare Square", I know that I would not be able to afford anything least of all have a career.

Btw, I came back to Utah in 2004 and only needed a few months of help. But those few months will forever be a part of my life. This experience did show me that when you are down, you need the help of people willing to help you.

If the shelter stays where it is, this will not stop chronic homelessness, it needs to be next to services and options from other organizations that are wanting to help the homeless also.

[delts145]

Wasatch Metro- Heber Valley

New Ultra-Luxe ski resort planned for breathtaking location in Wasatch County

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,695226485,00.html


Wasatch County

It will have skiing, shopping, high-end recreation, breathtaking vistas and everything you would want in a community. The land is surrounded by aspen and spruce trees and gazes on mountains.


..

[delts145]

Looks like Target is coming to Downtown

Target targeted for 300 West

http://www.sltrib.com/business/ci_7423198

City Councilman Van Turner said he didn't know much about the progress, but he added that "it looks like they finally have a location" after nearly 10 years of searching.


The 140,000-square-foot store would anchor a broader 18-acre development along 1100 South and 300 West, just two blocks north of Wal-Mart

..."It'd be a good thing for the community, and for Rose Park, because they wouldn't have to go all the way to Bountiful," Turner said. "It'd benefit the whole west side and be good for the city. That area has turned out to be west-side's commercial district, and the heavy industry is all moving out further west.


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[Future Mayor]

Originally Posted by delts145

Looks like Target is coming to Downtown

Target targeted for 300 West

http://www.sltrib.com/business/ci_7423198

City Councilman Van Turner said he didn't know much about the progress, but he added that "it looks like they finally have a location" after nearly 10 years of searching.


The 140,000-square-foot store would anchor a broader 18-acre development along 1100 South and 300 West, just two blocks north of Wal-Mart and near a Lowe's hardware store.

..."It'd be a good thing for the community, and for Rose Park, because they wouldn't have to go all the way to Bountiful," Turner said. "It'd benefit the whole west side and be good for the city. That area has turned out to be west-side's commercial district, and the heavy industry is all moving out further west.


..

First of all I'm not sure what you think you're doing delts, posting these articles about development. I thought this was a social issues forum.

While I like the fact that Target is coming to the city, I would rather see them go into a much more urban setting. I would have like to have seen them go in just west of Gateway, with a two level store and a parking garage. I think that location would have better served downtown and the northwest side. They could have done a design similar to Smith's Marketplace on 400 S. I've been to a Target that has done just that, two levels of store and two levels of parking, it is a nice piece of urban infill.

Oh well, it will save a lot of people a lot of distance by not having to go to bountiful or fort union to avoid the 1300 S Wal-mart.

[delts145]

Hey Future Mayor, I agree with you. Infact, I think that was the original plan. Did the city nix that at Gateway because it was too much square footage for a single establishment? I can't quite recall.

LOL, I'm sorry I interrupted the social issues commentary. That was an excellent round of discussion though, with a lot of great, and I think valid points and goals. I think I would like to continue the discussion regarding security cameras, police patrol on horse, and also some of Makid's and other's points made on the concentration of services in one area.

[SLC Projects]

Originally Posted by delts145

Looks like Target is coming to Downtown


..

1100 South and 300 West isn't really downtown. Near downtown is more like it. LOL. Too bad it's not going to go near the Gateway just like what they had planed a few years ago. That would of been better.

I also agree with Future Mayor that the Target should build a store with two levels with two levels of parking. I wish it would be more urban. But I guess it's better then nothing.

[DMTower]

"I love how whenever there is a problem on the east side the solution is "move em west"..."

Every body has problems and some people deal with them and some don't. There are plenty of people with addictions who are not homeless and they still manage to function on a basic level. I think it is a cop-out to say they can't help themselves. Mankind has evolved out of competition and some people are better at it than others. The new residents of the gateway district are generally people who have taken responsibility for their lives and done what it takes get ahead. If the homeless are unhappy about being moved around then they can do what it takes to gain control of their lives. As long as they are being provided a free roof over their heads I think they can suck it up and live for free where we choose to have them live for free.

[delts145]

Hey DMTower, would you say also though, that moving the shelter south in the same vicinity as welfare square and other important services would be a good move?

[Ute_City]

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

First of all I'm not sure what you think you're doing delts, posting these articles about development. I thought this was a social issues forum.

Ha, I thought that too, haven't been around in a while because of it. Good to see some real news on the area in this and other threads!

[DMTower]

"Hey DMTower, would you say also though, that moving the shelter south in the same vicinity as welfare square and other important services would be a good move?"

I would say that would be a great move. I think it's great to give all the help we can give... my main argument was beggars can't be choosers. And with that I'll drop the subject in favor of development-oriented posts

[Sight-Seer]

On the subject of the Ultra-luxe Ski Resort -- the thought makes me feel nausiated -- it's so sad what has happened to Midway. When I first discovered it a decade ago, it was one of the most beautiful mountain settings I had ever seen anywhere. The Homestead resort was almost all alone there. Midway was a charming town with old Scandinavian-style houses. The east side of Timpanogos was a breathtaking backdrop. Then it was discovered by other people. It's become Yuppieville. They're building new Scandinavian-style trophy homes as fast as the trucks can carry the building materials. Too sad. It's getting so you have to do farther east to find unspoiled getaways.

Anyway, why would they build a ski resort there. It's too low. You have to go farther west to Timp to find sking slopes. Soldier Hollow is there already and it's cross-country.