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  #741  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2007, 9:17 PM
michael_d40 michael_d40 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonL-Moncton View Post
I hope we get one in Moncton downtown attached to a convention center and new areana that holds at least 12K
ha.
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  #742  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2007, 9:31 PM
ElevatorGuy ElevatorGuy is offline
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I dont see whats so funny about JasonL's comments?
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  #743  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2007, 9:45 PM
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12000? Are there any cities the size of Moncton with arenas that large?


To all the optimists above: I do hope you're right about good designs coming forth for the casino. This is something that needs to be done well, otherwise it will reflect poorly on the whole province for giving the idea the go-ahead. I'm sure nobody wants a half baked casino project in their city, it could easily attract the wrong kind of crowd.
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  #744  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2007, 10:03 PM
ElevatorGuy ElevatorGuy is offline
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Where there any 7200 seat facilities in cities of Monctons size back in 1972. No and thats why when you build them you dont look at the current needs but the future needs. I cant fathom why Harbour Station was built so small. Its a good thing it can be expanded but I doubt that will ever happen. I cant see a new rink in Monctons future anytime soon anyways.
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  #745  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2007, 10:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonL-Moncton View Post
I hope we get one in Moncton downtown attached to a convention center and new areana that holds at least 12K
Great idea, there is a similar complex in St-Johns. A such complex could revitalize the Wildcats franchise. So like ElevatorGuy said this is not for tomorrow.

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  #746  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2007, 1:15 AM
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I do find 12 k a bit large for Moncton. I would say 10k with an option to expand be more fitting.
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  #747  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2007, 6:05 AM
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I realized today that Assumption`s parking lot was quite huge. If I`m right, they virtually control downtown destiny.

:: Assumption parking lot ::

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  #748  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2007, 6:09 AM
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Originally Posted by HalifaxMtl666 View Post
I realized that Assumption`s parking lot was quite huge. If I`m right, they virtually control downtown destiny.

:: Assumption parking lot ::

Food for thought. I think Heritage Court might take the cake for parking though.
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  #749  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2007, 6:23 AM
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Food for thought.
Well said. You`re right about Heritage. The Assumption parking surface that I pointed out really is capital for further projects though.
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  #750  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2007, 7:03 AM
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Originally Posted by HalifaxMtl666 View Post
Well said. You`re right about Heritage. The Assumption parking surface that I pointed out really is capital for further projects though.
Oh, no question. In fact, that aerial shot is a bit misleading. The land behind blue cross is now an office building, and a good part of the adjacent lot is now the marriott. with all the stuff going up in the next few years, hopefully we'll see downtown fill in a bit.
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  #751  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2007, 12:39 PM
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Where will casino be built?
Moncton mayor applauds fact politics taken out of site selection process

By ROD ALLEN
TIMES & TRANSCRIPT STAFF
Published Friday November 9th, 2007
Appeared on page A1
Focused solely on the single issue of casinos, the two best things about the province's new gaming policy released yesterday is that there will be only one 'destination gaming facility' in the province and that 'politics' appear to have been cut out of the selection process, says Moncton Mayor Lorne Mitton.

Which means that when the decision comes down in May of 2008 it will be based on the best business case and that looks good for Moncton, said the mayor in an interview yesterday.

Mitton did nothing to downplay his government's interest in a casino, reminding that Moncton City Council said as much in a formal resolution passed last year.

"We are always open for business in Moncton, but I see in the policy that the province has not created a situation where municipalities can get themselves into a bidding war.

"The Request for Proposals has been issued, the provincial lotteries commission will receive those proposals and they will be welcomed from any public or private entity except the Atlantic Lottery Corporation, the provincial government or its agencies or any New Brunswick municipality or its agencies."

The policy also says proponents can expect no government assistance at any level for any project wherever it might be located, nor can municipalities offer consideration to proponents.

Mitton noted that a solid business case will obviously have to be stated by proponents, whoever they may be, as they rush to meet the government's submission deadline of March 11 in a selection process that will be controlled by the international accounting firm KPMG.

But in the meantime those proponents can look to studies that have already been done, said Mitton.

In 2001 Toronto developer Verdiroc, which retains an option on the so-called 'Beaver Lumber Property' in downtown Moncton, hired MacMaster University economics professor Dr. Atif Kubursi in Hamilton, Ont., to do an impact analysis for a casino it was considering for the Beaver property.

Kubursi analyzed data presented in a KPMG report sponsored by the City of Moncton earlier the same year and based in part on those findings, concluded there is only one logical site for destination gaming in the province.

Kubursi said Moncton is that site, due to its character as a retail/tourism destination and its central position to both New Brunswick and the Maritime provinces.

Other sites such as the City of Saint John were also interested at the time, but Kubursi cited several unfavourable factors for Saint John, a big one being that it is further away from Halifax than Moncton and thus in poorer position to repatriate the 210,000 annual New Brunswick visits to the casino in Halifax.

New Brunswick and Newfoundland are currently the last two Canadian provinces to not have any type of destination gaming.

Another thing Mitton liked about the destination gaming aspect of the policy is that although it has been a long time coming, the province is now in a hurry to act on it.

The provincial lotteries commission is expected to choose the one successful proponent in May and the proponent is expected to have a facility completed by the first of May, 2010.

It didn't escape the mayor's notice that thousands of visitors will be in Moncton not long after that when the city hosts the World Junior Track and Field Championships in a brand new stadium.

"If it turns out that a successful proposal is located in Moncton it will be a very busy year," he said.

While the mayor said he "applauds the provincial government" for a solid and thorough gaming policy that appears to cover all bases of legal gambling in the province, not everyone was applauding yesterday.

Although the policy includes two pages on engaging the province's First Nations communities, Elsipogtog (Big Cove) First Nation Chief Susan Levi-Peters was disappointed because she was looking for an entrenched partnership with the province on gaming. "Now that looks like it might not happen," she said in Fredericton yesterday, "we could submit a proposal and it might be denied."

Levi-Peters said the province has always been open to partnerships with First Nations on natural resources such as forestry and we always end up sacrificing our natural resources. But when it comes to gaming, we're put on the back-burner."

Brent Briggs, vice chairman of the New Brunswick Harness Racing Association, was angry that the policy does not include an ironclad requirement that harness racing be a part of the gaming facility.

The policy states "a possibility that racing could be a component but there's a possibility that it might not be too.

"Our concerns have not been met here today," said Briggs. "We were hoping that a harness racing component would have to be part of this one casino."

Currently one Atlantic Canadian 'racino' -- a combination harness track and casino -- exists in Charlottetown, P.E.I.

The only other casinos in Atlantic Canada are in Nova Scotia, in Halifax and Sydney.

n With files from Jesse Robichaud
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  #752  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2007, 2:31 PM
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Moncton Mayor gives gaming plan thumbs up

November 09, 2007 - 5:17 am
By: News 91.9 Staff

MONCTON, NB - If a casino is going to be built in New Brunswick, Moncton Mayor Lorne Mitton says it might as well be built in the Hub City.

Moncton has gone on record as saying it favours having a gaming facility in the city.

Mitton believes a casino would bring more visitors to the province and could be another reason Moncton is a destination.

Mitton adds he's pleased with how the province has issued a request for proposals for a casino by not pitting one municipality against another.

Under the plan, the government has issued a request for proposals for a casino to be in operation somewhere in the province by 2010.
The facility won't be funded or operated by the government, but Finance Minister Victor Boudreau says he expects the province will pocket about $25 million per year in revenue.

The government's new responsible gaming policy will cut the number of video-lottery terminal sites by 50 per cent, and the actual number of machines by 25 per cent by April 2009.They'll be removed from restaurants, while Royal Canadian Legion branches will be able to keep theirs. Legislation will be introduced to regulate charitable gaming activities, including the licensing of Texas hold 'em poker tournaments.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Who? Where? When?
Casino Winning location will find a mix of positive and negative spin-offs,

Quentin Casey
Telegraph-Journal
Published Friday November 9th, 2007
Appeared on page A1

FREDERICTON - Bets are already landing on who will build the province's first casino, and where, after the provincial government gave the green-light to the gambling project Thursday.

And while Saint John appears the early front runner, experts warn that casino windfalls come at a cost: nearby businesses can be trampled, crime and addiction rates rise, and success hinges on bringing in visitors - not just local residents.

At first glance it seems Saint John is most likely to grapple with those issues, says Stewart Hyson, a gambling policy specialist at the University of New Brunswick.

With a large population and strong ties to the tourism sector - particularly the cruise ship industry - Saint John is well placed to house the new facility.

Moncton, the other likely spot, is centrally located and can tap into the entire Maritime population, he notes.

But that is also a disadvantage. Nearby Charlottetown has a racino - a combination casino and racetrack - and Halifax has a well established casino.

Moncton developers may find their market is more saturated than that of Saint John, Hyson said.

"Moncton is perhaps a bit too close to that market. It would seem that Saint John would have a better argument to make," Hyson said. "Saint John would probably be in the lead."

Plans for a Saint John area gambling house have already surfaced.

Saint John's Exhibition Association recently unveiled a plan to build a $20-million multiplex that would combine a racino with hockey rinks, indoor soccer fields and other amenities.

On Thursday, the government announced it would allow one casino to be built in the province, to help revive the sagging tourism industry. A request for proposals was launched by Finance Minister Victor Boudreau, who expects the casino to generate $25 million for the government annually - when it opens in 2010.

According to Hyson, the winning location will find the casino brings a mix of positive and negative spin-offs.

New jobs and a boon to the construction industry will be seen as pluses.

But Hyson says casinos often "cannibalize" the local economy.

Many local businesses find it hard to compete with the casino's economic pull, especially when hotels, boutiques and restaurants are all connected to it.

"The expectations will be higher than reality," he said in an interview Thursday. "There may be some unforeseen losses down the road."

Also to be considered are the issues of addiction and crime.

"Who is going to pay to (treat) the addicts and (fight) crime if it increases?" he said. "All too often the government focuses on the positive"¦ They ignore some of the negatives. People don't like to talk about the downsides."

As part of its new gambling plan, the province also announced an increase of $250,000 for addiction services. Currently addiction care funding sits at $757,000.

Bill Rutsey, president of the Canadian Gaming Association, argues that gambling addiction and crime do not increase when a new casino opens its doors.

"Statistically the crime levels don't go up - that's a myth," he said. "And it doesn't change the rate of problem gambling "¦ that's absolutely incorrect.

"It's an absolute fallacy."

According to Rutsey, a number of companies may be interested in launching the province's first casino, including Great Canadian Casinos, a British Columbia firm that operates from the west coast to Halifax.

Gateway Casinos & Entertainment, another B.C. firm could enter the fray with a proposal, as might Harrah's, which runs casinos all over the United States.

Falls Management Company, which developed the Niagara Fallsview Casino Resort, could also be a contender, Rutsey said.

Jason Azmier, of the Canada West Foundation think-tank, has published 18 reports on casino gambling in Canada.

He says success hinges on one key figure: 50 per cent of the casino's patrons must come from outside the region.

"Otherwise it's a shifting of money around the bath tub," he said. "Unless new water is brought into the tub from tourism, then you're really just moving the money around the community.

"The more naturally existing tourism opportunities that are there, the more successful it's going to be - because you're drawing outside money into the region as opposed to trapping money inside."

Azmier echoes concern about the cannibalizing characteristics of casinos on the local economy.

He says other forms of entertainment - like theatres and sports teams - will likely suffer, as a finite number of entertainment dollars are spread around.

"It's not a total plus to the region. There will be a shifting around of economics," he said.

"It's a mixed bag - there are some positives and negatives."

Social pitfalls - like crime, family stress, suicides and more addicts - will come, he insists.

"There's not going to be an exponential growth in these things. But there will be a moderate growth," he said.

"Revenue numbers should not be the only indicator of success. There are the personal costs that also need to be part of the equation."

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Metro housing starts up in October

Times & Transcript staff
Published Friday November 9th, 2007
Appeared on page C2

October proved to be a good month for housing construction starts with the numbers of single dwellings up over October of last year.

The number of single housing starts in urban centres reached 171. That's 28 or 19.6 per cent more than last October's total of 143, say preliminary figures released by Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation. Increases were noted in both Moncton and Saint John while Fredericton saw a slight decline in numbers for October.

The total number of housing starts in the urban centres was 263 compared to 234 in October of last year, a 12.4 per cent increase.

Multiple housing starts numbers were virtually unchanged this year from last year with 92 starts last month compared to 91 in October 2006.

The total was down on the year-to-date column with 1,118 units for the first 10 months compared to 1,183 last year, a decline of 3.3 per cent.

"The year-to-date increase in total starts has been bolstered by an increased number of single starts in 2007", said Claude Gautreau, CMHC's Senior Market Analyst for New Brunswick.

The total for Canadian urban centres for October was pegged at 16,037 housing starts, a 9 per cent drop from 17,393 starts in October 2006.

Both the single and multiple housing starts suffered declines.

Single-detached housing starts dropped from 8,220 last year to 7,370 this year, a difference of 10 per cent.

The number of multiple housing starts went from 9,373 in October 2006 to 8,687 this year, a decline of seven per cent, according to the figures.

The Atlantic region also did well with 737 new units started last month compared to 604 in October 2006.

Moncton had 36 housing starts last month compared to 32 in the previous October, an increase of 7.7 per cent, but saw the total for multiple housing starts drop nearly 40 per cent to 48 compared from 79 last year.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

In French Only
’Moncton est le meilleur endroit’
Mise à jour le vendredi 09 novembre 2007
Par: Philippe Ricard

FREDERICTON - Il n’a pas fallu beaucoup de temps après l’annonce de la nouvelle politique de jeu du gouvernement Graham pour constater que certaines personnes jubilent à l’idée de voir un casino s’implanter au N.-B.

Le président de la Canadian Gaming Association, Bill Rutsey, a expressément fait le voyage depuis l’Ontario pour assister à cette annonce. M. Rutsey, qui était de passage à Moncton au début octobre pour vanter les retombées économiques générées par les casinos, a adopté le discours gouvernemental, hier


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  #753  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2007, 2:37 PM
JasonL-Moncton JasonL-Moncton is offline
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Why is 12,000 such a stretch? We can currently hold roughly 7,000 in the coliseum...5K more is not a big stretch...and if it is a central component to the downtown core why build it to "expand later"? Think of how many concerts have gone to Halifax because the Metro center holds 10K...imagine if Moncton could hold 12K?

Metro Center = 10,000 max capacity
Harbor Station = 6,200 (seated, hockey) 6,603 (seated, basketball)7,205 Concert)
Coliseum = 7200 (6,554 seated hockey)

12K arena attached to a Casino, and Convention Center never having to go outside? HUGE for downtown....Moncton thinks big...why limit ourselves...Moncton is the biggest city in NB, why shouldn't we have the biggest arena in NB?
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  #754  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2007, 3:37 PM
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Originally Posted by JasonL-Moncton View Post
Why is 12,000 such a stretch? We can currently hold roughly 7,000 in the coliseum...5K more is not a big stretch...and if it is a central component to the downtown core why build it to "expand later"? Think of how many concerts have gone to Halifax because the Metro center holds 10K...imagine if Moncton could hold 12K?

Metro Center = 10,000 max capacity
Harbor Station = 6,200 (seated, hockey) 6,603 (seated, basketball)7,205 Concert)
Coliseum = 7200 (6,554 seated hockey)

12K arena attached to a Casino, and Convention Center never having to go outside? HUGE for downtown....Moncton thinks big...why limit ourselves...Moncton is the biggest city in NB, why shouldn't we have the biggest arena in NB?

I'm just not sure a city of 125,000 people needs a 12,000 seat arena thats all..note I did say it should be designed for expansion for the future.
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  #755  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2007, 4:15 PM
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Just my thoughts..

You know.. all this talk about downtown.. I mean .. first its the convention centre that couldn’t get off the ground if an A-Bomb was planted underneath it..

then we have all this specualtion of condos on Robinson ( who would pay top dolllar to live on a street with no parking, ( at all) behind a funeral home, and next to a comedy club.. certainly not someone who can afford a penthouse Oh and underground parking you say?? hmmm hmmmm..

One thing this city has to do .. 1st thing.. get rid of their city parking.. yes .. i know the city doesnt see a need to build parking garages or underground parking because they have the space not to have it.. BUT .. when all this crap gets built.. ( " if " ) should be to opperative word.. then what.. they are going to pull space out of the petitcodiac to build parking ??

Now i know im prolly bursting the baloon on optimism here but.. bear with me.. I completely agree with the downtown development project and i am all for densifying ( is that a word?) the downtown corps..

there are simply a few things that visually have to happen before anyhting else in my mind can..

1. build parking strutures and get rid of leased parking lands ( they are going the way of the DODO anyway) .. Ie spot for the parking structure?? why not have it on the corner of Queen and Steadman/Lewis you know besides gifts gallor.. where its all dirt parking now anyway.. Another parking structure could be built where the DT detention centre currently is.

2. I personall believe that in addition to all this construction we should start looking at renaming some streets to go with the new developments of Downtown. Similar to the Downtown Vision Suggestions from the ONTARIO FIRM

a. Start naming some Courts and squares ( ie.. Market Square for the market .. Terminal Square for the Terminal Bldg .. ( yes I know we call it terminal plaza.. but its not its official name.. it’s a local name)

b. Remember all the issues with the street names??
i. This city doesn’t know the difference between a street, road, blvd, hwy, lane or avenue. Look at Assumption BLVD and Vaught Harvey Blvd.. do you see a difference between those and WHEELER?? OH COURSE THERE IS >> WHEELER IS A FREAKIN HIGHWAY not a bldv.

c. My suggestion would be.. and if this were the only one that happens so be it.. Why not change the name of wheeler blvd to JOHN WHEELER PARKWAY .. ( JWP) for short.. have signs .. saying JWP this way.. or whatever.. a city having a parkway sounds more put to gether than a blvd that goes around and around and doesn’t really go anywhere.. and who ever heard of a controlled access Blvd.. ??
d. Not to mention the people who are having a small flock over the fact that street names don’t have any heritage anymore?? Well JWP.. has al lthe heritage you want.
e. Why not change the name of Main Street to EAST MONCKTON WAY and WEST MONCKTON WAY ( changing at VAUGHN HARVEY ) – Notice the spelling of MONCKTON

Anyway im just venting and throwing out ideas..

I just think of NYC .. and TORONTO even Halifax and Fredericton.. where people can live on NORTHUMBERLAND Street or SAINT JOHN AVENUE.. or where people can go to WASHINGTON SQUARE

Moncton people go to Trinity drive.. not the Shopping district
People go to the Market not Market square
People take Wheeler or higway 15.. not the JWP..

Just a few suggestions..


Assumption blvd could be the Tourist and Vacation District.
The courthouse could be Litigation Square
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  #756  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2007, 5:14 PM
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hahaha I love NB

T&T "Moncton is the obvious choice for a casino!"

TJ "SJ is the obvious choice for a casino!"

In my opinion Moncton is the choice...(hey this is the Moncton thread after all haha)

1. Tourism, we are already set up as a tourist destination moreso (theme parks, close to both national parks in NB, shopping king etc etc)

2. Central location, always helps in attracting from all over NB, PEI, parts of NS

3. Airport, we have the main one in NB...and yes I know, we dont have the cruise industry, but our airport brings in MANY more passenger a year than that...and we also have rail to boot.

4. Space, we have lots of space downtown for such an establishment

5. Study, we have already had a 3rd party syudy done that points to Moncton as the best location only two years ago.

Anyways...at the end of the day there is nothing we can do really, so the report may find either city as best for the casino/racino I am just placing my bets (haha) on Moncton.


__________

As for the arena part I think we could do well with a 12,000 seater...obviously we would not fill it up for a few years, but it is a goo investment in the future and would show the city is committed to growth.

That being said it probably wont happen for 10 years.
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  #757  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2007, 5:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stu_pendousmat2 View Post
hahaha I love NB

T&T "Moncton is the obvious choice for a casino!"

TJ "SJ is the obvious choice for a casino!"

In my opinion Moncton is the choice...(hey this is the Moncton thread after all haha)
Virtually and completely agree with you. This morning, there was a analysis on CBC/SRC on that topic , the guy used almost the same argements as you to support Moncton location. I guess Saint John has a lot going for it too.

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  #758  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2007, 6:40 PM
JasonL-Moncton JasonL-Moncton is offline
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Moncton makes m-u-c-h more sense for a Casino than Saint John, and I'm not just saying that because I live here...I've lived in both Fredericton and Moncton, and visited Saint John...MANY times (relatives 'used' to live there), of the three Moncton makes much more sense to house such a venue.

Now I'm not saying this to slight SJ...as others have said an 'independant' study, someone with no vested interest, stated that Moncton was the better choice

Yes to "acrew" the parking in downtown is becoming an issue...but like the city's desire not to build a building higher than 6 stories...for some reason they won't build a decent sized parking structure that is both below and above ground (the revenue they could gain from this structure could be substantial).

I understand your desire to rename Wheeler (how about thru-way as it gets us 'thru' the city) Wheeler Thru-Way (WTW or WT). I don't understand you desire to start naming everything courts and way's and such.

"Tourist & Vacation District"? Blech...
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  #759  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2007, 8:28 PM
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Originally Posted by JasonL-Moncton View Post
Moncton is the biggest city in NB
Biggest CMA.
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  #760  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2007, 8:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Haliguy View Post
I'm just not sure a city of 125,000 people needs a 12,000 seat arena thats all..note I did say it should be designed for expansion for the future.
I'd say 10-12,000 is a stretch for right now as well, but in the non distant future it should be a great addition. On that note, I truly believe Halifax should have an 18-20,000 seat arena to draw larger events and in turn larger crowds.
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