Salt Lake:Official development news thread

[Future Mayor]

Good info on the glass tower. I question if it truly is going to come about, I know that the church purchased the properties several years ago but I doubt that it will happen in the next 10 years. I can't imagine that they would relocate Bennion Jewelers and the Deseret Book office to that building just to move them in five to seven years. I'm sure Bennion Jewelers would not be pleased with having to relocate yet again.

I don't like the idea of moving the Zions Bank on the south west corner of the intersection. While it doesn't fit into the zoning regulations I think they could put it mid block on 100 S between Main and West Temple across from tower 2.

If the church is interested in improving Main Street or downtown in general they should place the tower a block or so away from CCC. CCC is large enough to draw people from several blocks away.

I think the best location for a new tower would be the City Center block north of the City County building, or the Carl's Jr. site if the building won't have a plaza. While I like having a Main Street with several tall buildings, I also like the idea of widening the skyline. Another option on Main Street, 400 S, 500 S or West Temple would be the parking lot owned by Earl Holdings (that will never happen though)

I also agree with the 600 S comments and would love to see the downtown rising vision come about on those Grand Boulevards, including 500 S. I think some midrise or low rise 3-8 stories, residential, office or retail with a continuous strip of trees and green space would be nice on those two blocks with some higher density from 200 W to 200 E.

[delts145]

The day they make a major effort with more than just a chain hotel here and there on 500 or 600 south will be a happy day. Especially if it means burying those stinkin power lines on 600.

[Future Mayor]

MOVED FROM CCC THREAD

I like your wish list Delts and I like that I was mentioned in it, I hope not to disappoint. I do however really enjoy that we have to Major league franchises, and two minor league franchises in the valley. I absolutly love the experience of going to a Bees game and would hate to see them go away.

My goal is exactly what you are talking about with neighborhood retail in the CBD. My first project will be a mixed use residential (condo or apt, haven't decided yet), along with a nice mix of restaurants, local retail (or maybe a national store that didn't get into CCC) and entertainment and include some public art and create and nice intimate urban place.

Don't get me wrong, it's nothing along the lines of CCC or Gateway but it will create a nice pedestrian connector within the city, and the announcment will be news worth but will create much more excitement and be more appreciated with all us Geeks on here.

I'm truly excited to get this project going. I will have the market analysis and cost analysis done within a month both applying to my overall feasibility study. (at least it better be done in a month since it's 60% of my grade this semester)

I have several potential funding sorces to talk to once I have the details done. Not being to optimistic but I would like to be able to announce the project by early '09 and hope to have a completion date of '11 near the completion of CCC.

[delts145]

Sounds great Future Mayor, I'm really looking forward to seeing many of your visions become reality. Oh, and about the Bees. I guess a major league team will be in the cards in the not too distant future. I sure wouldn't be against the expansion of the current Franklin/Quest Field, and additional neighborhood mixed-use development surrounding a neigborhood stadium in the 1300 south quadrant. I'm a big advocate of expanding our attitude regarding the size of downtown. Hey, I think we should now think of downtown all the way to 2100 south. Also, would like to see the Bees remain in the Valley in much the same way as say the Owls in Utah Valley, if that were possible.

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[Future Mayor]

Funny you should mention a mixed use around 1300 S. That is another project I have been throwing around in my brain for several years now. That could be project 2 or maybe a little farther down the road 4 or 5, we'll see if I crash and burn on the first one or not.

Maybe the Bees could move to West Jordan (Day Break) or somewhere else in the Kennocott Development. You sound like you have some inside info on an MLB franchise, do tell!

[delts145]

Ya know, I think there's a few of us Wasatch forumers that are just going to have to get together and develop a project one of these days!

[urbanboy]

Originally Posted by delts145

I'm a big advocate of expanding our attitude regarding the size of downtown. Hey, I think we should now think of downtown all the way to 2100 south.
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I think this would be a very bad idea. The reason being is that one of our city blocks is the equivelant of 9 city blocks in portland oregon. I don't want our downtown to be sprawled! I think we should concentrate on the area within the current boundaries until we as a community are satisfied with the density and the amount of amenities in our downtown. Then we can talk about expanding it.

Also, Major League sports facilities do not belong anywhere exept in or near downtown!

[delts145]

Perhaps your definition is not the same as the community at large. I would not for a moment think of an expanded Franklin/Quest and vibrant, urban-chic 1300 south as downtown sprawl.

[Scraperdude801]

Urbanboy I very much agree! ... More density will equal more success for all developments as well. ... since our city grows in spurts, I say we take this time to fill the gaps and make the downtown we have perfect, then move on south.

Just like everyone else I want a bigger downtown, but just because there is a building here and there won't make it feel like downtown. Let's use every parcel of land, parking lot and suburban development in downtown and then expand the boundaries. ... that's the only way to create the city we want.

[delts145]

Just a couple of friendly points.In the real world of Salt Lake City our downtown core will continue to fill in the gaps and densify as it is now. However, as with any densification, (think Manhattan or even Central Los Angeles) let's not destroy small, non urban dense, but beautiful history.

Also,all of the wishing in the world right or wrong, will not change the pricipals around which we now see denser village centers being created, such as the 21st south and State corridor. We do not live in a perfect world, nor do 'my way or the highway approaches' work in the world of real urban development.

[Future Mayor]

While I don't want a larger sparse downtown to extend from N. Temple to 2100 S. I think I understand what Delts is trying to say. By encouraging more dense population all along that area it will only spur more downtown growth. Delts is right when he says that projects like Market Station, CCC and Gateway will continue to sprout up and if we could encourage those to sprout in that area that would be more beneficial to the entire valley as far as density and less impact with traffic than if a lifestyle center pops up on Herriman. As the downtown continues to fill in there are less and less opportunities for large scale development.

While I have made it clear that my goal is to do infill development in the downtown core, the reality is, is that the economies of scale are hard to come by on a one or two small parcels within the CBD as opposed to the parcels that have been assembled for Market Station.

I think as the city and state continues to grow the city will be able to support more dense development throughout the city. Each area will develop its own identity. Sugarhouse, downtown, marmalade, 9th 9th, soon to be 21st south and main/state, all these areas can be vibrant neighborhoods and can contribute to the overall growth of downtown. If we allow and encourage these areas to develop and grow downtown will be the largest benefactor.

I also agree with Delts on the baseball stadium. I don't think and expanded Franklin Covey Field is in anyway a detriment to downtown. I think that makes a fantastic informal border to downtown. If and when we get MLB team I would fully support placing the stadium in the same location. One reason would be for the historical significance of it always being a baseball stadium on the site. The second reason is that while it would be cool downtown I think in the overall economic scheme of things it would be of greater benefit to the city. For instance in Cleveland in the mid 90's the Indians were built a new stadium in a former SH$%^@ area of town, The Q (Cavs) is also built next door, this area is refered to as the Gateway district because three major interstates deliver people to the city at that location. The area has prospered with new restaurants and business due to the location of those two facilities.

The original proposal was to place a new NFL stadium across the street, but the NFL needed it built quicker so it was placed on the former stadium site. Due to its location a mile or so away from the other two, another district has formed with upscale restaurants and housing.

If the MLB stadium was built downtown near ES Arena a few additional restaurants would appear. However if it was built at 1300 S, a far greater number of business would develop in the area, leading to an overall increase in establishments.

I could go on about why I think it would be a good location but I've gone on long enough. I am not saying I am against a downtown sight, I'm simply saying I would fully support the 1300 S sight.

Just my two cents, considering the length, maybe me 50 cents.

[Northernlad]

Originally Posted by Scraperdude801

Urbanboy I very much agree! ... More density will equal more success for all developments as well. ... since our city grows in spurts, I say we take this time to fill the gaps and make the downtown we have perfect, then move on south.

Just like everyone else I want a bigger downtown, but just because there is a building here and there won't make it feel like downtown. Lets use every parcel of land, parking lot and suburban development in downtown and then expand the boundaries. ... that's the only way to create the city we want.

I am the same way. Let's concentrate on downtown and the Gateway area before heading South because that whole area, with some minor exceptions, south of 1300 S to I-80 and West of State is in dire need of a makeover. What I mean is that area will take years to make pretty so sticking with downtown makes more sense. There is too much work that still needs to be done in the core.

[Future Mayor]

I do agree for the most part. We do need to focus on downtown, but we also need to have distinct neighborhoods with in the city. Which is why I say lets allow those to develop as well.

Are all of you saying you would not want a MLB park to be at the current Franklin Covey site. What areas in or near the CBD would make a good location for a stadium of that size and impact? I would interested in knowing what sites would be appropriate.

[arkhitektor]

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

What areas in or near the CBD would make a good location for a stadium of that size and impact? I would interested in knowing what sites would be appropriate.

Take you pick from among Earl Holding's parking lots and other empty blocks downtown. The block bordered by Main St. and W. Temple between 400 and 500 S (Across from the courthouse) would be a nice location. I think our city blocks would be large enough to hold a large stadium. Here's Petco Park on that block at roughy the same scale:

[delts145]

I don't think that it is a matter of concentrating on the area between No. Temple and 6oo south. Then when it is all built-up to satisfaction, we can look to the south. Urban Development does not happen that way. Here in Salt Lake City for better or worse, it will happen the same way that it is happening in Central L.A. Islands will crop up at convenient mass-transit locations and those islands will grow and expand outward until they join up with the next closest island. That is the way Manhattan,Paris and London developed and now L.A. and soon Salt Lake City.

I think Ralph Becker will do a good job of making plans for an NFL stadium downtown, and I would be very angry if it isn't placed somewhere at least as close as say between 5th and 7th south. However, I do think that we should be prepared to accept the historic site of 1300 south as our expanded future MLB stadium. Yes I would like the MLB stadium to be between 600 no. and 700 south, but I don't have a problem with the current site, given all that is going to happen in that area in the near future with TRAX etc.

[Future Mayor]

Originally Posted by arkhitektor

Take you pick from among Earl Holding's parking lots and other empty blocks downtown. The block bordered by Main St. and W. Temple between 400 and 500 S (Across from the courthouse) would be a nice location. I think our city blocks would be large enough to hold a large stadium. Here's Petco Park on that block:

[IMG][/IMG]

I agree that that would be an ideal block. However as you mentioned that property is owned by Mr. Holdings and unless he's the owner of the team I doubt he would be willing to put the stadium in that location.

I did think of a great spot that would also enhance our Grand Boulevard of 600 S. I think the block south of either Little or Grand America would be a great location. I pretty sure Earl owns the property to the south of little but I'm nor sure about the property south of Grand. If it was proposed anywhere south of 600 S I would say go ahead and put it where Franklin Covey is.

The city tried to acquire both the parcel you mentioned and the one south of Little America for the Real Stadium, and we all know how successful that was. Maybe Earl would allow it to be built there if it was called Sinclair Park! hmmm interesting thought!

Our block are pretty large, I wonder if a park would fit on one city block! Franklin Covey seems to take up about 2/3 or a block between W. Temple and Main so I'm not sure if a MLB park would fit, with the substantially larger stands, just thinking in type.

Delts I'm not sure Ralph could find a place between 600 N and 700 S that could accommodate and NFL stadium, that is a huge foot print. I think it would have to be west of 400 West and south of 600 S, former industrial land that the street grid isn't really developed. I would say that a site right of the 600 S off ramp would be pretty cool.

That would be a nice spread of facilities. ES Arena on S. Temple, Football Stadium around 700 S and MLB field on 1300 S.

[delts145]

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

Our blocks are pretty large, I wonder if a park would fit on one city block! Franklin Covey seems to take up about 2/3 or a block between W. Temple and Main so I'm not sure if a MLB park would fit, with the substantially larger stands, just thinking in type.

Thats a good question. Does someone have the answer to that off of the top of their head?

[Comrade]

Whoa, where are we getting this NFL talk from? Salt Lake City is decades from even being considered an NFL city.

I want an NFL team as much as the next guy, but the league isn't going to expand anytime soon, and if they do, they're going to LA. So the only hope is if a team looks to relocate to Salt Lake. What teams would? The only two teams are the Chargers and Cardinals. The Cardinals just built a new stadium, so that's probably out of the question. That leaves San Diego, but Salt Lake has to be below the following cities in terms of relocation:

LA
Portland
Hartford
Louisville or Lexington
Las Vegas
Oklahoma City or Tulsa

I just don't see Salt Lake getting a look unless the above cities say no.

Face it, we're a good 20 years from even being a realistic option. Becker won't make plans for an NFL stadium downtown, since there won't be any plans for an NFL team at all.

[Comrade]

Just to compare, here is Franklin Covey on the Matheson Courthouse block east of the "Petco Stadium" block.



It'd be a really tight fit.

[delts145]

Originally Posted by Comrade Reynolds

Whoa, where are we getting this NFL talk from? Salt Lake City is decades from even being considered an NFL city.

I want an NFL team as much as the next guy, but the league isn't going to expand anytime soon, and if they do, they're going to LA. So the only hope is if a team looks to relocate to Salt Lake. What teams would? The only two teams are the Chargers and Cardinals. The Cardinals just built a new stadium, so that's probably out of the question. That leaves San Diego, but Salt Lake has to be below the following cities in terms of relocation:

LA
Portland
Hartford
Louisville or Lexington
Las Vegas
Oklahoma City or Tulsa

I just don't see Salt Lake getting a look unless the above cities say no.

Face it, we're a good 20 years from even being a realistic option. Becker won't make plans for an NFL stadium downtown, since there won't be any plans for an NFL team at all.

I would cut just about everything you've said and listed in half. I disagree with the number of years and SOME of the cities you've listed ahead of the Wasatch Metro. This is just a point of opinion. We'll have to wait five more years and then we can discuss it again.