parking podiums: tolerated compromise or the root of all evil?

[atl2phx]

Originally Posted by dallasbrink

I dont like chicagoans, lets call them Chi Towners, take a page from Kanye West!
Where as podiums with parking garages, i dont have a problem with it. We do it with all the new buildings in Dallas, and i dont think that you will se as many towers going up if you mandate that all parking be underground. This might work for office towers but i dont think it would work for the residential towers, would cost to much for rent if you were trying to make it affordable housing.

no, code shouldn't mandate that all parking be underground, however, i think it's reasonable to require at least 20% of approved parking under street grade. many of the new condo developments in atlanta suffer from huge podiums which would be considerably less offensive if they were partially underground. case in point is the nearly completed viewpoint on peachtree....simply dropping two parking floors below grade would be a significant improvement. as is, there is zero parking below grade in this project.

[honte]

^ If you're still going to have a podium and a problem with an unsightly garage that needs to be addressed architecturally anyway, I don't see the benefit of 80% being above ground instead of 100%. At that point, I say let's just have the extra height and sink that money into something else, like better exterior finishes.

[J. Will]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Thus, affordable development goes right out the window...

If you get rid of parking requirements and let the market determine the appropriate level, you'll see more affordable units in the pipeline. But parking will become the premium amenity it should be in a city.

No, cities that require all parking be underground still have affordable housing. So that's not true.

[Don B.]

I hate parking podiums. Phoenix's 2 cars per unit building code (which can be shaved down for smaller units after a variance is granted) results in some fairly monstrous results.

I've asked developers to better integrate the tower with the podium so they look more integral in appearance.

Some examples:

44 Monroe (under construction now):


Toll Brothers (approved):


Copper Pointe (proposed):


--don

[lawsond]

I don't buy that forcing parking underground will greatly decrease the number of highrises built. How does Toronto have over 90 highrises u/c just within city limits? If anything, it could lead to more development because if all parking garages are underground, it makes for a nicer neighbourhood to walk around, ceteris paribus.

this is very true of toronto. i would love to see an underground map of parking in downtown area. almost every single project has 3 to 5 levels of parking underground. there must be thousands or tens of throusands of spots down there. am i exaggerating? maybe it's the lakeport honey talkin'.
but it leaves the street for more humane uses.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by J. Will

No, cities that require all parking be underground still have affordable housing. So that's not true.

Is the affordable housing mandated or is it market driven? If a city has a high parking requirement per unit and mandates underground parking, the end result is going to be fewer affordable, or mid-market, units. You'll end up with an imbalance of luxury units with the lower and mid-markets being underrepresented.

[WhipperSnapper]

zoning greatly influences property values and thus the necessity to build to soaring heights and the cost of going underground to meet parking requirements. This is how Toronto has maintained its affordability eventhough going underground can be quite costly in many parts of the city

[dallasbrink]

Here is how we decorate the top side parking in Dallas


Or u put the pool on top of it, make it to where u can not see inside of it and put a big garage door that keeps the poor people out so no know knows its a parking garage


Or you build it it first behind where the tower will go, then build the tower

[brickell]

Ditto for Miami. A lot of us really despise the huge parking pedestals, but kind of accept them as better than nothing.

[J. Will]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Is the affordable housing mandated or is it market driven? If a city has a high parking requirement per unit and mandates underground parking, the end result is going to be fewer affordable, or mid-market, units. You'll end up with an imbalance of luxury units with the lower and mid-markets being underrepresented.

I disagree. Look at cities in Canada, Europe, Japan, Australia, etc. where almost 100% of garages are built underground, and they don't lack affordable housing. And market-rate housing is often cheaper than these cities with these massive parking pedestals. I understand your theory, but I don't see it in practice unless you can give some real-world examples.

And the additional cost is almost negligible in the grand scheme of things. Say a garage costs $20,000 per space instead of $10,000 per space. The might push a condo price from $230,000 to $240,000. That's still less than 5% of the total cost - pretty insignifican in terms of monthly mortgage payments.

[wong21fr]

^These cities also don't have ridiculously high parking requirements in the aforementioned countries. So, a building is not built with a 1.5 to 1 or 2 to 1 parking to bedroom ratio.

Also, I'm not talking about the cost of selling the spot, but rather the cost of constructing the spot.

We'd have to compare two comparable cities that have similar parking requirements to see if it is just developers in the US being cheap.

[lawsond]

^These cities also don't have ridiculously high parking requirements in the aforementioned countries. So, a building is not built with a 1.5 to 1 or 2 to 1 parking to bedroom ratio.

Also, I'm not talking about the cost of selling the spot, but rather the cost of constructing the spot.

We'd have to compare two comparable cities that have similar parking requirements to see if it is just developers in the US being cheap.

what do you mean by parking requirements? canada has almost the same ratio of cars to people as the u.s.a. toronto is a city CHOKED on cars and it is getting worse. yet almost all buildings are built with underground garages.
sometimes five or six layers deep.
i am not sure what you refer to when you say "parking requirements". please advise.

[rapid_business]

Parking requirements:
Phoenix - manditory 2 stalls per condo unit
Calgary - manditory 0.9 stalls per condo unit

(are those number right? Just my assumption from what I read in posts before this...)

[rapid_business]

I saw posts earlier on the opinions of parking garages done right. Here is one of the best examples I've seen.

(take note of retail on main, etc.)

[ardecila]

Yeah, that is a pretty good example. I would gave preferred brick, but it probably wasn't feasible.

[SFUVancouver]

In the City of Vancouver it is mandatory that all new parking be underground and I wouldn't have it any other way. This includes everything from infill rowhouses in single family home neighbourhoods to towering residential high rises and office towers. The benefits of underground parking in a thoroughly urban environment, and moreover a low parking to dwelling/sq ft of office ratio in general, are so numerous that above ground parking is just unacceptable any longer.

However there are some very good examples of above-ground parking podiums being built elsewhere in the Metro Vancouver area. Without exception these podiums are surrounded by townhouses, lofts, and retail. The roof of many of these podiums have additional ground oriented townhouses and are landscaped with intensive green roofs.

Here are some of the best examples from Metro Vancouver:


Source: My Photo ( SFUVancouver in SSP | Vancouverite in SSC )


Source: My Photo ( SFUVancouver in SSP | Vancouverite in SSC )

This development in the Vancouver suburb of Burnaby has created a new urban streetscape along a former suburban office/light industrial edge. The three residential towers have a large common parking podium in the centre. Along the main street there is a length of at-grade retail, which is being continued by the adjacent residential development. Above the commercial shops on the top of the podium are two-storey townhouses that enter from the podium's intensive green roof. There is an exercise pavilion on this green roof as well as a children's playground. Parking requirements are low because this development is across the street from a station on Vancouver's SkyTrain elevated automated rapid transit line. From their front door to downtown residents would spend about 15 minutes commuting. They key to the success of this development is the pedestrian experience of the street. In my opinion it is excellent and one would be unaware of the presence of a parking garage from the sidewalk:


Source: My Photo ( SFUVancouver in SSP | Vancouverite in SSC )


Near this first example is another recent residential development that has a two-storey parking podium that is encircled by two-storey townhouses. The roof is planted with an intensive green roof, complete with trees.


Source: My Photo ( SFUVancouver in SSP | Vancouverite in SSC )


Source: My Photo ( SFUVancouver in SSP | Vancouverite in SSC )


The mixed-use parking podium of this two-tower complex has a Save-On-Food grocery store, a restaurant with rooftop patio, retail at grade, a rooftop daycare with intensive green roof play area, and it adjoins an eight storey office building. Unfortunately I didn't take the best picture from the speeding SkyTrain.


Source: My Photo ( SFUVancouver in SSP | Vancouverite in SSC )


This two-tower residential development has a three-storey parking podium surrounded by retail at grade on two sides with three storey townhouses above this, entering from the landscaped intensive green roof. This tower is directly adjacent another station on the SkyTrain system.


Source: My Photo ( SFUVancouver in SSP | Vancouverite in SSC )

Many of these projects are the first residential forays into previously light industrial parts of the city. The City of Burnaby's Brentwood Town Centre official development plan will create new urban streets and an urban built environment. The city requires these new developments to use an urban form that hides the parking podiums with townhouses on side streets and at-grade retail on main streets, while maximizing the utility of the podium roofs with green roofs and ground-oriented courtyard homes. The developments I've profiled are all within a kilometre of each other along the Millennium SkyTrain line and they are adjacent a river system that precludes extensive below grade excavation. However throughout the region underground parking or well executed enclosed parking podiums are the norm for new residential construction. New surface parking for residential developments is prohibited region-wide.

[Alliance]

My two recoomendations

1. Parking should be below grade or a minimum of 100' above grade.
2. Parking structures should represent an architectural extension of a building.

[Tom Servo]

Originally Posted by Alliance

My two recoomendations

1. Parking should be below grade or a minimum of 100' above grade.
2. Parking structures should represent an architectural extension of a building.

do you have any idea how much it costs to put parking underground? it's a lot. also, a 100' tall garage is TALL.

[Tom Servo]

when dealing with parking structures, this is the bottom line: a good architect produces good design.

[Alliance]

Originally Posted by AdrianXSands

do you have any idea how much it costs to put parking underground? it's a lot. also, a 100' tall garage is TALL.

Do you even read what I write or just rant? I said nothing about anyhting being underground.

Bottom line: Bad urban planning is a result of bad architects putting parking garages at grade.