LOS ANGELES | Downtown Project Rundown 3.0

[BrandonJXN]

Originally Posted by LongBeachUrbanist

A place is well-designed if it respects the pedestrian and makes them happy to be there. With this criteria, the Grove mostly succeeds. Hopefully, L.A. Live will be able to pull it off as well.

This is why I believe the LA Live 'district' should fully blend into downtown as opposed to LA Live just sitting there. I believe that with the right planning, LA Live could work as both a destination and a neighborhood for both Angelino's and visitors. LA Live has alot of room to grow. There is the lot next to the Holiday Inn and not to mention all of the shoody and crap just north of LA Live. I envision that area filled with residential units as well as office space, hotel space, and of course various retail. I think that by at least 2012, LA Live will blend in with Metropolis creating a very active, linear district. I'd like to see retail ranging from Prada to Pinkberry. Retail is very important for all of downtown as it forces you to get out and walk. Going back to the Broadway debate; you can't expect downtown to fully blossom as a neighborhood when all you stuff into the retail space is bars, a high end restraunt, and (of course) Pinkberry. Not saying that those things are bad but you have to have something for everyone so everyone can tell everyone and everyone can have a good time with everybody. I believe that LA Live will be able to work because it does have something for everyone. A bowling alley and video arcades for the kids, and a Conga Room and various bars/restraunts for the kids. And a theatre for both.

[fridayinla]

Nokia Plaza last night:







More info at angelenic about what was going on there last night.

[POLA]

Originally Posted by k3d

They did, They looked at Broadway and said that. Didn't go over to well here though.

Also, Broadway doesn't have any trees, nice lighting, statues, or historic trolley... And that's because people obviously don't like those things unless they are inside a mall...

[jlrobe]

Originally Posted by k3d

What is with you people and the Grove? The Grove is constantly packed with people for dinner, movies, shopping, music, book stores, a farmers market, a park like area, easy parking. Packed I tell you. And most of the people there seem to be in a really good moodThe trolley is always full of families and smiling kids. They don't even have on LCD screen. DTLA can hope for such success. Maybe you people just don't like to shop.

Any shopping mall in any city in America will be packed with people. If all downtown LA wants to do is make a mall similar to Sacramento's downtown plaza (which is packed with families and teenagers), then why the heck are we all getting so excited? Sacramento isnt any more fun, cool, or urban because of its downtown mall.

Even places that are more entertainment focused like downtown disney, citywalk, etc., would not be very interesting to many people in this forum.

the farmers market at the grove is cool and that is because it was there BEFORE the grove ever came into existance.

The Grove is not urban and it is not cultural. It is a mall with a few extra bells and whistles. That isn't a bad thing, but most people on this board aren't interested in malls.

[LAofAnaheim]

The Grove is an urban utopia. The people access it by 1 humongous parking garage. It's an entertainment-only area with retail, restaurants, and theaters.

LA Live!, OTOH, will have businesses & residences, which will provide a 24 hour base for customers. Not everybody will have to drive to LA Live! Heck, I'm hoping the taxi cab business in downtown picks up b/c of this joint. Why would you drive from Little Tokyo/Arts District/Old Bank to LA Live!? Unlike the Grove, LA Live! has fantastic access to DASH & the Pico Station. Like I said earlier, my only concern is that retail is only accessible from Nokia Plaza and not from pedestrians lining up on Olympic & Fig. If you get the latter, we have a San Francisco Union Square feel to this development; if it becomes inward, we have a Grove-like feel to it.

[Echo Park]

those video screens are tiny. well relatively tiny compared to the towers they're bolted on. I assume these towers will serve another purpose than just displaying the video screens, i.e. they'll be able to hang banners where images can be projected on?

[BrandonJXN]

The colors Dude. The COLORS!!

So far so good. The Fruit Loops colors will surely bring people to LA Live.

[k3d]

Originally Posted by jlrobe

Any shopping mall in any city in America will be packed with people. If all downtown LA wants to do is make a mall similar to Sacramento's downtown plaza (which is packed with families and teenagers), then why the heck are we all getting so excited? Sacramento isnt any more fun, cool, or urban because of its downtown mall.

Even places that are more entertainment focused like downtown disney, citywalk, etc., would not be very interesting to many people in this forum.

the farmers market at the grove is cool and that is because it was there BEFORE the grove ever came into existance.

The Grove is not urban and it is not cultural. It is a mall with a few extra bells and whistles. That isn't a bad thing, but most people on this board aren't interested in malls.

Well, you completely missed the point. First of all, the point is, until recently the streets of downtown los angeles were/are completely dead. That is/was because there is/was NOTHING to do in downtown. That is changing and LA Live and the area around it is KEY to the progress of the area. I have lived in downtown for over a year and a half and I see the changes realtime every day.

Second, to say that people on the here forum aren't interested in the subject is obviously incorrect as you can clearly see by the number of post and responses in regards to LA Live / Broadway / Grove and the retail subject in general which is again KEY. Besides, Who made you the moderator of what people here are or are not interested in. You can put me on ignore if your not interested in my subjects.

Third, There are many malls around the southland that have or had difficullty getting people to go to. The old Galleria ventura comes to mind, I'm pretty sure the 3rd st. mall in santa monica had the same problem, in fact they are removing the roof there to make it an open air mall because people just turn around when they reach the end of the 3rd St Promenade. So, the point is that LA Live HAS to get it right in order for it to be successful.

[RAlossi]

Nokia Plaza was truly impressive last night. The futuristic design of the architecture with the lights, plus the complementary effects on the Staples Center across the street reminded me of some parts of Odaiba in Tokyo. Plus the colors were amazing.

[RAlossi]

Originally Posted by LAofAnaheim

I'm hoping the taxi cab business in downtown picks up b/c of this joint. Why would you drive from Little Tokyo/Arts District/Old Bank to LA Live!?

Unfortunately, cab drivers in Downtown are loath to drive less than a few miles to a destination. You can catch a cab in Little Tokyo, but to go somewhere within the Downtown freeway circle you're gonna get hassled like nothing else.

[k3d]

Originally Posted by LAofAnaheim

The Grove is an urban utopia. The people access it by 1 humongous parking garage. It's an entertainment-only area with retail, restaurants, and theaters.

LA Live!, OTOH, will have businesses & residences, which will provide a 24 hour base for customers. Not everybody will have to drive to LA Live! Heck, I'm hoping the taxi cab business in downtown picks up b/c of this joint. Why would you drive from Little Tokyo/Arts District/Old Bank to LA Live!? Unlike the Grove, LA Live! has fantastic access to DASH & the Pico Station. Like I said earlier, my only concern is that retail is only accessible from Nokia Plaza and not from pedestrians lining up on Olympic & Fig. If you get the latter, we have a San Francisco Union Square feel to this development; if it becomes inward, we have a Grove-like feel to it.

I'll take a taxi next time to I go to pinkberry. It used to be dead around there but the last 2 times I went there was no parking at all. It is too far to walk from 8th/Grand.

[k3d]

Originally Posted by POLA

Also, Broadway doesn't have any trees, nice lighting, statues, or historic trolley... And that's because people obviously don't like those things unless they are inside a mall...

Of course the idea would be to put in the tree, lighting, statues?, trolley, music, etc... as well as restoring/renovating all the historic buildings.

[jlrobe]

Originally Posted by alikaalex

I shop at the Grove and enjoy the vibrant atmosphere, but also agree that it's "inside out". That is, it creates insulation from the surrounding neighborhood, rather than integration with the neighborhood. I think a Grove-like concept would only work Downtown if its aim is integration, not insulation.

I agree.

Here is my analysis of the 3 big projects.

3rd st promenade gets:
an A for being a crowd pleaser
a B for being an urban catalyst

The Grove gets:
an A for being a crowd pleaser
a D for being an urban catalyst

Hollywood and Highland gets
a D for being a crowd pleaser
an A+ for being an urban catalyst

I raelly really hope LA live gets
an A for being a crowd pleaser
a A for being an urban catalyst.

My point is that I think LA live has two critical purposes. It has to be a place people want to go often, but it has also got to be a development that strongly encourages future development. I would rather LA live be H&H than the Grove. I dont care how much internal success LA live enjoys. If it doesnt continue to transofrm Fig, Olympic, and the entire South Park area, I don't care about it!

That being said, there is nothing wrong with the Grove. Its a very successful mall.

[BrandonJXN]

H&H a D? It has issues but I wouldnt' give it a D for crowd pleasing. B- is more apt.

[k3d]

^ None of those places needed or were trying to be an urban catalyst. Except H&H. Also I would give it a b-. Hey I thought nobody wanted to talk about malls.

[jlrobe]

Originally Posted by Echo Park

those video screens are tiny. well relatively tiny compared to the towers they're bolted on. I assume these towers will serve another purpose than just displaying the video screens, i.e. they'll be able to hang banners where images can be projected on?

The LED's are fine, but as you said, the towers seem to be overkill. Is there another use for them?

[k3d]

Originally Posted by jlrobe

The LED's are fine, but as you said, the towers seem to be overkill. Is there another use for them?

They support the spotlight show that you can see for miles as well as the colored lighting that seemes to be the theme for the plaza. C'mon, the whole place is overkill, on purpose! What do you want?

[jlrobe]

Originally Posted by k3d

Well, you completely missed the point. First of all, the point is, until recently the streets of downtown los angeles were/are completely dead. That is/was because there is/was NOTHING to do in downtown. That is changing and LA Live and the area around it is KEY to the progress of the area. I have lived in downtown for over a year and a half and I see the changes realtime every day.

Second, to say that people on the here forum aren't interested in the subject is obviously incorrect as you can clearly see by the number of post and responses in regards to LA Live / Broadway / Grove and the retail subject in general which is again KEY. Besides, Who made you the moderator of what people here are or are not interested in. You can put me on ignore if your not interested in my subjects.

Third, There are many malls around the southland that have or had difficullty getting people to go to. The old Galleria ventura comes to mind, I'm pretty sure the 3rd st. mall in santa monica had the same problem, in fact they are removing the roof there to make it an open air mall because people just turn around when they reach the end of the 3rd St Promenade. So, the point is that LA Live HAS to get it right in order for it to be successful.

Well you make an interesting point. I guess I shouldn't assume that malls aren't interesting to urban architecture forum readers. I apologize. Everyone sees urban traits differently.

Actually, you made me stop and think for a moment. I think you and others have a point. LA live should strive to at least match the Grove's INTERNAL popularity. Why? Because it has ALREADY SUCCEEDED in being an urban catalyst. It already gets a B in my book. Now my hope is that it achieves that A+ rating I gave to H&H.

LA live is extending our skyline significantly in its southern portion with a 54 story building. It is directly responsible for 6 high rises and a grocery store. It will most likely going to be respnsible for an additional 3-4, plus a second grocery store. It is bringing in a state of the art movie house into the arae. It is bringing in jobs, a cultural attraction, and is reinvigorating the convention center. It has done all that without even being open yet.

If it can put thousands of pedestrians into the downtonw streets, then it will get an A+ in my book, and that is what I hope for the MOST!

The Grove didn't do ANYTHING to mid-city west. There was already shopping, retail, jobs, theatres, etc. in that part of the city. It didnt add skyscapers, luxury hotels, public plazas, etc. If anything it just shortened people's drive to the beverly center by about a mile. Not to say the Grove isnt cool, it just wasnt an essential catalyst to the neighborhood like LA live has been for downtown.

So, I stand corrected.

Anyhow, I continue to digress.

does anyone know if the LA live buildings can be accessed by the street?

[k3d]

Originally Posted by fridayinla

Nokia Plaza last night:

More info at angelenic about what was going on there last night.

Awesome photos fridayinla! Thanks. The plaza looks even better than I expected.

[jlrobe]

Originally Posted by k3d

They support the spotlight show that you can see for miles as well as the colored lighting that seemes to be the theme for the plaza. C'mon, the whole place is overkill, on purpose! What do you want?

Thanks for answering my question. My observation was that they seem to be overkill for JUST holding the LEDs. Thanks to you I now know that they DO HAVE ANOTHER PURPOSE, and that's to project light. I will have to go see for myself in person if this is indeed why they have the design that they do. Thanks for the heads up though.

I dont mind overkill, but design is design. You dont want to have 30 foot towers carrying 3 foot screens. If they carried 20 foot screens, fine, but proportions are still important in principles of design, and this ratio didnt seem natural to me.