Hartsfield Jackson Atlanta International Airport

[Rail Claimore]

Originally Posted by STrek777

I thought ya’ll would like this. Apparently the US and Australia plan to finalize an open skies agreement early next year. With Delta’s dedication to international expansion out of ATL this could be a major boost to our airport. Delta still has quite a few 777-LRs left to take ownership of over the next few years. With the Australian open skies on the horizon we may not have to long to wait to catch a flight out of ATL to SYD or PER or CBR. Here is the link below.

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2007/09/30/1191090945530.html

Can even a 777-LR make it from ATL to SYD? I'd expect an LAX-SYD route out of Delta, but I'm not sure about ATL.

[ThrashATL]

Originally Posted by Rail Claimore

Can even a 777-LR make it from ATL to SYD? I'd expect an LAX-SYD route out of Delta, but I'm not sure about ATL.

Out of curiosity, I plugged in a flight from ATL to SYD into MS Flight Simulator X and it's 8065 nautical miles or 9281 landlubber miles. Thats using a direct GPS routing too, as straight a line as you can fly between the two. The range of a 777-ER is 7,880 nautical miles, so no, it wouldn't reach Sydney nonstop from Atlanta. My 777 addon for MSFS X even asked me what stop would be used for enroute fueling... so there ya go, it won't be with an ER. Now if the LR's record flight holds up to full production models of 11,664 nautical miles, THAT would reach. The flight lasted 22 hours and 42 minutes (they went eastbound). So how many LR's is Delta buying?

[john3eblover]

8 so far I believe....?

[STrek777]

Originally Posted by STrek777

I thought ya’ll would like this. Apparently the US and Australia plan to finalize an open skies agreement early next year. With Delta’s dedication to international expansion out of ATL this could be a major boost to our airport. Delta still has quite a few 777-LRs left to take ownership of over the next few years. With the Australian open skies on the horizon we may not have to long to wait to catch a flight out of ATL to SYD or PER or CBR. Here is the link below.

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2007/09/30/1191090945530.html

I should have been more careful how I phrased my post. Even though I never stated non-stop I can see how it could have been seen as suggesting non-stop. The last time I spoke with Jim Whitehurst he did mention that the even the 777-LR would have to make a pit stop before hopping the Pacific. The most logical choice would be LAX since we already have a hub there and Delta has been jumping at every opportunity to beat American at there own game there.

Sorry for any misunderstanding.

[Rail Claimore]

Originally Posted by STrek777

I should have been more careful how I phrased my post. Even though I never stated non-stop I can see how it could have been seen as suggesting non-stop. The last time I spoke with Jim Whitehurst he did mention that the even the 777-LR would have to make a pit stop before hopping the Pacific. The most logical choice would be LAX since we already have a hub there and Delta has been jumping at every opportunity to beat American at there own game there.

Sorry for any misunderstanding.

American's operations at LAX are mainly for the transpacific and bicoastal markets. United is big dog at LAX that Delta has to deal with. Count on them to put out all the stops to keep Delta from making profit on any transpacific routing except Tokyo.

[SteveD]

Originally Posted by ThrashATL

Out of curiosity, I plugged in a flight from ATL to SYD into MS Flight Simulator X and it's 8065 nautical miles or 9281 landlubber miles. Thats using a direct GPS routing too, as straight a line as you can fly between the two. The range of a 777-ER is 7,880 nautical miles, so no, it wouldn't reach Sydney nonstop from Atlanta. My 777 addon for MSFS X even asked me what stop would be used for enroute fueling... so there ya go, it won't be with an ER. Now if the LR's record flight holds up to full production models of 11,664 nautical miles, THAT would reach. The flight lasted 22 hours and 42 minutes (they went eastbound). So how many LR's is Delta buying?

Those long hauls are fascinating to me. As someone not "in the business" or knowledgeable about jet fuel efficiency, can someone tell me in ballpark terms how much fuel one of these babies would need to be lifting off with to reach 8-, 9-, or even 10,000 miles? How much miles per gallon (or perhaps gallons per mile??) do these puppies consume, in general terms. I know there's a host of variables (older, newer models - climate conditions, headwind or tailwind, etc). I guess I'm trying to get a handle on how big the fuel tanks are!

[Andrea]

Originally Posted by SteveD

... how much fuel one of these babies would need to be lifting off with to reach 8-, 9-, or even 10,000 miles? How much miles per gallon (or perhaps gallons per mile??) do these puppies consume...

And do the babies need more than the puppies? (j/k, Steve)

I think the fuel thing is a fascinating question, too.

One other thing I wondered about is whether there's a tolerance level as to how long a flight people can handle. I start getting fidgety even on flights to Europe.

[Tombstoner]

Originally Posted by Andrea

One other thing I wondered about is whether there's a tolerance level as to how long a flight people can handle. I start getting fidgety even on flights to Europe.

I'm routinely on 17-24 hour flights (with stopovers, of course) and haven't gone nuts* yet. That being said, I honestly do think there are a lot of health consequences; a Continental pilot once told me that insurers calculate that pilots' life expectancy is 3-5 years shorter than it would be otherwise due to the general stress of traveling across time zones.

*certifiably

[STrek777]

Originally Posted by SteveD

Those long hauls are fascinating to me. As someone not "in the business" or knowledgeable about jet fuel efficiency, can someone tell me in ballpark terms how much fuel one of these babies would need to be lifting off with to reach 8-, 9-, or even 10,000 miles? How much miles per gallon (or perhaps gallons per mile??) do these puppies consume, in general terms. I know there's a host of variables (older, newer models - climate conditions, headwind or tailwind, etc). I guess I'm trying to get a handle on how big the fuel tanks are!

Here is the best I could find.

http://www.faatest.com/books/AK/8-4.htm

Of course you have to remember that there are quite a few factors to consider before fueling up.

For a more laymans term explanation here is another link although it only focuses on a 747.

http://www.howstuffworks.com/question192.htm

[ThrashATL]

Originally Posted by SteveD

Those long hauls are fascinating to me. As someone not "in the business" or knowledgeable about jet fuel efficiency, can someone tell me in ballpark terms how much fuel one of these babies would need to be lifting off with to reach 8-, 9-, or even 10,000 miles? How much miles per gallon (or perhaps gallons per mile??) do these puppies consume, in general terms. I know there's a host of variables (older, newer models - climate conditions, headwind or tailwind, etc). I guess I'm trying to get a handle on how big the fuel tanks are!

The 777 LR carries a max of 195,280 litres or 51,592 gallons. A gallon of jet A weighs 6lbs per gallon. The 777 on it's 22+ hour flight landed in London with 25,000lbs of fuel left, or 4166 gallons. It used 47,426 gallons of fuel for the entire flight average 4 gallons a mile.

[SteveD]

Excellent. Thanks for the info. I thought I'd heard before the "five gallons per mile" thing...

[ThrashATL]

Originally Posted by SteveD

Excellent. Thanks for the info. I thought I'd heard before the "five gallons per mile" thing...

But the 777 is about 10-20% more efficient than say a 747 or Airbus 340, so 20% off the 5gpm is 4... whoohoo.

[Rail Claimore]

Originally Posted by Andrea

And do the babies need more than the puppies? (j/k, Steve)

I think the fuel thing is a fascinating question, too.

One other thing I wondered about is whether there's a tolerance level as to how long a flight people can handle. I start getting fidgety even on flights to Europe.

Most people want at least one stop if they're flying more than 15 hours somewhere, but that's only if transfering planes on that stop is smooth and efficient. The last thing someone wants to experience at a stop is delay or cancellation. I've flown transpacific from the eastern US (13-17 hours) practically all my life. You learn to get a night's sleep while on the plane. I don't even get jetlag when I'm flying west to Asia.

One of Delta's current longest flights is ATL-ICN (Seoul) which is about 15 hours.

[SteveD]

Originally Posted by Rail Claimore

Most people want at least one stop if they're flying more than 15 hours somewhere, but that's only if transfering planes on that stop is smooth and efficient. The last thing someone wants to experience at a stop is delay or cancellation. I've flown transpacific from the eastern US (13-17 hours) practically all my life. You learn to get a night's sleep while on the plane. I don't even get jetlag when I'm flying west to Asia.

One of Delta's current longest flights is ATL-ICN (Seoul) which is about 15 hours.

You're lucky if you can actually fall asleep. I find it to be nearly impossible to fall asleep in most moving objects...car, bus, train, jet...I just can't do it. I just did ATL-Rome last week and was up all night, even with a Lunesta. Cruise ships buck this trend. No problem sleeping on a cruise ship.

[GTviajero81]

I think the main problem is in which direction one is headed.

Eg., ATL-FCO (Rome-Fiumicino) is a night flight but it is only dark for maybe 6-7 hours of a 9 hr flight. Hard to sleep well on that one. However try flying back from Europe to Atlanta in the winter on a flight at leaves VERY early (around 0400-0800). Flight times average 10 hours and it will be dark for all but the last hour of flight. A heck of a lot easier to sleep on.

I flew on Delta from Dubai to Atlanta a month and a half ago. We left DXB at 2245 and arrived in ATL at some time right before sunrise (it was still dark whilst taxiing to the concourse, but sunlit whilst driving home to the city). About 15 hours inflight ALL during the night....I tell you though, that was some good sleep!

To Asia it's a different story. Most transpacific flights leave the east coast around 1200 and so it is daytime all the way until one reaches the International Date Line. If it's winter time one will then see dusk. If it's summer time...sorry it'll be bright the entire way over. I flew on Korean Air a few years back from ATL-ICN in February....it was dark for the last three hours in flight (over Siberia there was light but it was dark when we arrived in Seoul-Incheon), however I flew on United from Atlanta to Osaka (via ORD) in the summer time and it was daylight the entire way over...sheesh that was a bit difficult...but nothing a bit of champagne in Business Class couldn't fix!

[GTviajero81]

Oh and btw Delta's longest flights are:

1) BOM (Mumbai, India) to JFK (New York) : 16:00
2) JFK (New York) to BOM (Mumbai, India) : 15:05
3) ATL (Atlanta) to ICN (Seoul, Korea) : 15:00
4) DXB (Dubai, UAE) to ATL (Atlanta) : 14:55
5) ATL (Atlanta) to NRT (Tokyo-Narita) : 14:20
5) ATL (Atlanta) to DXB (Dubai, UAE) : 14:00
6) ICN (Seoul, Korea) to ATL : 13:45
7) TLV (Tel Aviv, Israel) to ATL : 13:15

I could keep going but running through my brain to remember the scheduled flight times is a bit tiring. So there you go. I am quite sure that with PVG (Shanghai-Pudong) added in the mix that that flight will go to the top 5 in stage lengths.

[bw87a]

anything cool to do in the airport? i have an hour and a half layover tomorrow.

[john3eblover]

explore!

[Andrea]

Originally Posted by atlantaguy

I'll have to echo Randy's story. I too "grew up" with this airport, and I love it.

Although I will have to say I always liked the way the Alexander Calder mobile looked in the old terminal, too. Tres 60s -- you almost expected to see Napoleon Solo come strolling by.




Hartsfield Jackson is pretty utilitarian, but it works. And yes, Maynard Jackson absolutely deserves to have his name on this airport. Love the aerial photos

[john3eblover]

i flew into and out of JFK this week, man what a dump. made me miss hartsfield jackson