Millennium Line - Broadway Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[djh]

A quick tale on how painful and arduous the rezoning and expropriation process can be if an existing tenant or landowner does not want to cooperate.

Elsie Roy park, the new park near the Brava towers downtown, was supposed to be double the size it is now, taking up a full city block by removing the alleyway down the middle. The city started the rezoning process before ground was broken on Brava (that was about 3-4 years ago now). A couple of the property owners on the block took the (very generous) deal that the city offered to buy them out. One in particular decided they were not going to move because they held a good location on the block and wanted more. They are still there to this day, facing Brava, happily running their little business.

The city had to change the plans for the park and only build it using half the block. My friend, who was one of the landowners who took the money and ran, is sitting on a nice pile of cash. And the whole of downtown is short of what would have been a very nice park. And now, that block looks a mess because half of the existing buildings are abandoned.

So don't hold out hopes for the city buying land around Canada Line stations and rezoning them for high density. It just takes 1 person to be greedy and the whole redevelopment can either become too expensive or just not happen, if they hold a key location.

[privatejet]

^I assume you are talking about Emery Barnes Park near Brava. That site has indeed been planned as a Park for a long time, over ten years ago. However the City has not changed the plans for the Park and it will be completed covering the entire block (minus the social housing sites) The City expropriated the last three lots this summer.

http://vancouver.ca/ctyclerk/cclerk/20070726/documents/a1.pdf

[agrant]

That'll be nice. I've always thought it was too rinky dinky.

[djh]

Yeah, Emery Barnes park. Sorry about the name mistake

[fever]

The city doesn't need to expropriate lands for redevelopment to occur around rapid transit - it needs to change zoning bylaws to permit multi-family and mixed-use development. Neither 29th and 33rd Ave stations are in need of more park space. The complaints arise from residents not because they are forced to sell or redevelop their properties, but because their neighbours may choose to sell or redevelop. I'd prefer for development to occur incrementally, so I think it's perfectly alright to have holdouts.

[paradigm4]

Originally Posted by Nutterbug

Why hasn't the province taken a more heavy handed approach to force them to overturn this policy if it were going to spend so much money on both the Skytrain and Canada Lines running through Vancouver?

I suppose the fact that many premiers and other important cabinet members had seats in the CoV might have something to do with it.

It was my understanding that the Province is essentially trying to do this as part of their Translink overhaul. Property or development rights would be handed over to Translink from the participating municipalities so the GVTA would bring in some new source of revenue as transit-oriented development occurs (not sure if that's exactly how it works - it's kind of a grey area to me still).

[CoVWatchDog]

re: Emery Barnes: I believe there still is a question as to the City utilizing its powers of Expropriation to complete an already feasable and expandable park site (including much of the lane). It is understood that there are parcels of land [i beleive] not owned by the City, however, one needs to ask themselves, how critical are the remaining parcels if they are not included in the park site? The show could go on! Rumor has it, there is NONTHING holding up the City from providing its citizens with an expanded park to 90% of the block. I understand that the remaining parcels are not [critically] required for the second part of the park and the park may go ahead without the final properties... or at least it should.

[officedweller]

I think there were some funding problems with Emery Barnes Park that also delayed the expansion. The Development Cost Charge revenues collected from downtown south are running out (and downtown south is reaching build-out with litttle new DCC revenues coming up) - and those revenues are what's used to pay for the park space. Even the other one at Smithe and Richards could be in the air.

I can also confirm that expropriation proceedings were commenced this summer on the last properties for Emery Barnes Park.

***************

WRT GVTA or the Province rezoning around rapid transit stations, the only way I could see this working in practice is to have some sort of appeal board to oversee municipal decisions regarding those sites - like the OMB in Ontario.

Administratively, it would be cumbersome to establish a separate GVTA zoning/planning department to oversee the issuance of development permits and zoning approvals for carved-out zones around each rapid transit station since each site would also require a number of City permits (when all City building permits, inspections, etc. would still be required).

So what I could see is an appeal board (or a board of variance) that would review City zoning decisions to consider whether a City decision meets regional transit planning goals. Despite the fact that this has be heavily criticized in Toronto (the OMB having "too much" power to trump the City's decisions and being the "de facto" planning body for the City) it would allow adherance to the region-wide densification goals without being subject to the nimbys that lobby the vote-sensitive politicians at the City.

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Vancouver City council has a policy not to rezone purely because of a rapid transit station in the area. i.e. it won't rezone for transit-oriented development for the sake of transit-oriented development.

If the City chose to rezone to higher densities, what would happen in practice wold be that an area would be rezoned to multi-family, and existing single family houses would be existing non-conforming uses and can remain there as long as they want. Developers could "swoop-in" and buy up houses to consolidate properties to redevelop - but that depends on who is willing to sell.

If your house that was worth $500,000 suddenly became worth $1,200,000 because it was in a multi-family zoned area, how long could you put off selling, especially considering the fact that you'll be surrounded by high-rises soon enough.

[twoNeurons]

a transit station tax levy (although unpopular, I'm sure) could be used for properties around the station. It could be grandfathered so only new purchases would be affected, meaning if you BUY a house or a new condo in an area within x hundred metres of a station, you would have an additional tax levy, but current residents need not have any increase.

So all those people who live close to a station in residential houses who don't plan on moving (like for example, all the retired ones who want to keep the status quo of their life) don't need to worry about increased taxes.

In principle, I don't know how this would work, mind you.

[officedweller]

In the above scenario, as you've mentioned, emotional attachment would probably be the key driving force behind remaining in place. i.e. not every senior on the west side has "cashed in" on their property value.

What's the purpose of your proposed additional property taxes near a transit station?

[twoNeurons]

That's true, over time, however, the desirable areas around stations become generally more dense as more people sell or pass their house on to their offspring... that is IF the zoning allows it.

As for the taxation issue, it was proposed that the new translink would have more power over property in proximity to stations, i.e. densifying etc.

As much as people don't like increased taxation, it becomes a revenue stream for translink and is akin to somewhat of a "Convenience fee" and more palatable than a region-wide tax.

Those that are attracted to the convenience of transit are usually more apt to use it. There would be less balking than a flat out property tax across the Metro Vancouver area.

It would also negate the issue of say Langley residents who might say "Why should i have an additional property tax when I don't use transit"

If you live within a few hundred metres of a station, you will generally have used rapid Skytrain a few times a year at the very least.

This revenue stream would increase with density which could help to fund improvements to either the stations or transit in general.

If deemed a controversial tax, this tax could go not into the general translink pot, but only be permitted for either improvements that are deemed to be of benefit to those homeowners. For example, anything that improves frequency on the line or safety or visibility near the station could apply... but there are a WHOLE WIDE RANGE of things that it could be used and deemed as improving transit for the homeowner who pays the tax.

[officedweller]

I could see that having the unintended consequence of encouraging development away from stations - due to tax avoidance.

[Jared]

Slighty off topic, but it does relate somewhat to this discussion:

In the SUB at UBC there is a booth w/ info about the University Square project. According to one of the guys there, everything except the underground bus loop has been scrapped, and they're starting from scratch. They're there through most of the day for tommorow and friday, so make sure you check it out. They also have feedback forms you can fill out.

Additionally, there will be an info thingy specifically about the underground bus loop on October 5. I'm planning on going, and I'd encourage all our UBCer transit geeks to go. I want to mainly ask about how they're planning on accomodating a future SkyTrain line to the bus loop. I asked briefly today at the general booth, and the guy gave me a blank look like he's never heard of the Millenium Line extention before, and then just said that it won't happen for 40 years or something (when I'm 60! yikes!). Obviously, it will be a lot sooner than that. Does anyone know when the most recent reports/studies on it were done? Didn't the CoV vote on one a couple months ago? Has Translink done anything with it recently? Anyone (*cough* officedweller *cough* ) know?

Other stuff I wanna ask about:

Other things I want to ask about:
1) Apparently the bus loop is not high enough to accomodate trolleys?
2) What are they doing with the North bus loop now that all the buses are using this new one?
3) Where are they putting the exhaust vents for the new bus loop? It would be really dumb to have them right near this "wonderful new gathering space" they seem to be planning.

[mr.x]

Does anyone know when the most recent reports/studies on it were done? Didn't the CoV vote on one a couple months ago? Has Translink done anything with it recently?

From what I know, the UBC extension study should've commenced last year but it was delayed until this year when Translink finally had the balls to vote and fund for the study. The last study was done in 2002, and can be found on the City of Vancouver's Rapid Transit Office website, and the current study should be done in 2009.

Thx for the info about the SUB info booth on the underground bus loop, i'll be sure to check it out tomorrow. Where exactly is it though?

[Jared]

Originally Posted by mr.x2

From what I know, the UBC extension study should've commenced last year but it was delayed until this year when Translink finally had the balls to vote and fund for the study. The last study was done in 2002, and can be found on the City of Vancouver's Rapid Transit Office website, and the current study should be done in 2009.

Thx for the info about the SUB info booth on the underground bus loop, i'll be sure to check it out tomorrow. Where exactly is it though?

So translink just voted to approve a new study on it, but the study hasn't started yet? And the CoV is in the middle of one?

The info booth is right in the main entrance area, right beside the ticket master outlet. You know where they had all those posters for sale a couple weeks ago? right there.

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by Jared

So translink just voted to approve a new study on it, but the study hasn't started yet? And the CoV is in the middle of one?

The info booth is right in the main entrance area, right beside the ticket master outlet. You know where they had all those posters for sale a couple weeks ago? right there.

No, the Translink study has been approved and has already started.....and i'm guessing Translink is working with CoV on the study.

thx.

[djh]

On the Mayor's website there is a survey regarding the extension of the Millenium Line to UBC.
Bear in mind this is completely playing into partisan hands, and he will no doubt release multiple press releases to support whatever project he is taking sole responsibility for conceiving this week...nevertheless it would be good to fill this out and help raise awareness of our desire to get this project done!

Mayor Sam Sullivan invites residents, businesses and community organizations to provide their views about plans to complete the Millennium Rapid Transit Line from VCC Station to Central Broadway - and ultimately UBC.

See http://www.mayorsamsullivan.ca/

[Jared]

I filled in the survey. Although I am loathe to give Sam the opportunity to try and take credit for a Broadway extention, I really want the damn thing built.

[mr.x]

Think about region: Corrigan
By DHARM MAKWANA, 24 HOURS

Mayor Sam Sullivan's desire to extend the Millennium Line underground should be tempered by the region's transit needs, according to the mayor of neighbouring Burnaby.

"The reality is that we need much more than simply the Millennium Line through the north east sector," said Burnaby's Derek Corrigan. "We need a rapid transit line to go out into the valley where all the growth is occurring."

Residents in growing cities, such as Surrey, are no longer feeding into Vancouver alone.

"Today, the travel pattern is like dropping a handful of pick-up sticks," said TransLink's Ken Hardie.

Hardie admits transit planners can only key in on areas of high demand on the growing transportation grid because of a lack of funds.

Corrigan, a former B.C. Transit chair, complains that Sullivan's wish to bore under Broadway could sink TransLink further in debt.

"Sam and Vancouver do not believe in surface lines, which are much less expensive and much more people friendly," he said. "What he's proposing now ... is just a foolish expenditure of public money."

The cost of building the Canada Line, which mixes elevated, cut-and-cover and boring technology, is tabbed at more than $2 billion for the 19-kilometre route.

Corrigan added if the Millennium Line extension is built through tunnels, the costs will be off the charts.

"We can't afford to indulge Vancouver, having all of their lines go below ground," he said.