Salt Lake:Official development news thread

[rodan]

You know what the big hole there where the keybank tower used to be actually makes downtown look more dense when you are walking around downtown. it looks all urban and cool imo.

[delts145]

Howa 'bout that!

Utah devceloper is sweet on his plan for Marmalade development in SLC

http://www.sltrib.com/business/ci_6971278


Developer Rick Howa, a veteran contractor, is betting that the timing is right for a rebirth of the Marmalade area near Capitol Hill. (Steve Griffin/The Salt Lake Tribune )

...The sizeable development, on 5 1/2 acres, will feature 50,000 square feet of shops, service-oriented businesses and eateries, and more than 90 pricey condominiums and townhomes...



Construction bustles on Marmalade, Rick Howa's latest development at 300 West and 600 North. (Rick Egan/The Salt Lake Tribune )


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[Future Mayor]

I'm really excited about the Marmalade project. I lived in the area about 8 years ago when it was just starting to make its very slow come back. It's had some set backs in that time but I think Howa's project will solidify the area as a legitimate and vibrant downtown neighborhood. I think Howa makes a great point, that the mix of retail that the neighborhood wants is what will make this project legitimate.

With the Marmalade project and the proposed projects on 200 W and 900 S, will really help to extend the perception of "Downtown"

I also agree with what the project manager said that the real estate market should once again be strong at the point that the condos become available for sale.

Good for you Howa. Now lets figure out the Utah Theater situation, and lets do it quick.

[Viperlord]

I remember reading in the deseretnews or the tribune a few years back that Howa was saying that if he couldnt sell the theater he would turn the property into an office tower. He was quoted as saying "the land is prime land for an office tower". But I think that the city wouldnt let him do it now that they have their whole "downtown rising" agenda.

[Scraperdude801]

that's really lame that the city would deny someone who wanted to build an office tower. I hope you're wrong. ... I mean I like some of the ideas that the downtown rising has envisioned, but I can't really say I am super excited about never really having a building taller than the COB (as depicted in their 40 year possible future renderings). The Utah Theatre takes up some prime real estate on main street, and isn't being used, and since the arts culture is along 200 and 300 south, it makes little sense to focus so much energy bringing life back to it. It isn't architecturally attractive in the least from it's exterior. ... If I had a source of unlimited funds. That block between main and west temple and 100 south to 200 south would be the land I would buy (keeping all historic places of course) and building the heigth in the skyline right there.. Some 40 story towers on the 100 south end leading up to a 55 story tower in the middle of the block and a 45 story next to it and a 40 story on the 200 south end.

Prime, location in my opinion. I think that block is one of the most important for downtowns future.(atleast the look of it's skyline) If it doesn't get developed properly (same with the one between main and state and 100 and 200 south) then we could pretty much say goodbye to hopes of ever having a skyline that we are not ashamed of. I mean a bunch of 20 story towers just doesn't look good point blank.

[Future Mayor]

I am going to have to disagree with you on this one Scraperdude. It is actually quite a historic building with the original architectural detail hidden behind the more recent fronts. The inside from the original photos and renderings that I saw on the Utah Theater website a year or two ago is also pretty historically and architecturally significant. I think it would be a true loss to the city to eliminate another historic theater, the city has lost many that once existed in the central business district. I think the fact that it is just around the corner from Capital and only a block north of the Off Broadway make it a perfect location for another theater.

I agree that those two blocks could be somewhat critical in the development of more dramatic skyline. However with the cities current zoning Howa wouldn't be able to put a substantial skyscraper on that site anyway. There are midblock height restrictions, the 40 + story buildings have to be on the corners and the Utah is dead center on the block. With or without the current zoning I would hate to lose a historic, architecturally significant structure.

I think the best options, with current height regulations, for tall buildings on the aforementioned blocks is kiddie corner from the hideous Shilo, the former first interstate/First Secrurity/Wells Fargo (whatever it is now) kiddie corner from One Utah, which I don't see happening. The new site of Bennion Jewelers (former Old Navy) or the site of Carl's Jr.

I'm also slightly confused that you were so quick to jump on people about wanting to bring the PSB down, because of all the gaps in the city that need to be filled, yet if you had a chance you would tear down an entire block. What happened to filling in the gaps?

[Viperlord]

That rendering that the downtown rising shows as downtown is all just a "what if" or a "what it could be" scenario. There will be a buiding taller than the COB in downtown SLC within the next ten years i would bet.

If you recall an article in the Salt Lake Tribune on 02/02/2007 called...

LDS tower tallest, but there's no law against topping it

quote:"Thing is, it's a myth, one church officials debunked during the 2002 Winter Olympics and one Salt Lake City planner Doug Dansie frequently encounters.
"There's no maximum height" downtown, he said.
City regulations do dictate buildings on corners be no taller than 375 feet, but they also offer developers ways to get around the rule.
If someone wants to build a 50-story sky-rise, Dansie said, "there's nothing legally preventing him from doing that. There's a process to go through."

quote:"John Dahlstrom, executive vice president of Wasatch Property Management, pays the myth no mind. His company is headquartered at the Wells Fargo Building, the city's second-tallest at 440 feet, but only because of a 37-foot radio tower, according to company figures.
His company has tentative plans for a building that could surpass the COB. Preliminary drawings call for a 33-story tower on the corner of 400 South and State.
"People have said the church doesn't want anything built higher than the Church Office Building," Dahlstrom said. "I always thought the zoning laws drive it more than what the church wants."


You got to take into consideration economy and client demands. SLC isn't necessarily a large corporate headquarters city. Therefore we dont have a whole lot of companies proposing large tall iconic towers for headquarters.

Also, there are many other towers that hold the possibility of a new tallest downtown..

Cowboy Partners tower:
on the corner of 100 south and state street.

World Trade Center Utah:
location unknown, but could be in the 25-30 story range

100 south and main street tower:
renderings have shown a glass tower located in the 100 south and main street area. Looks to be a new tallest.

Plus I have been in contact with someone working closely with City Creek Reserve Inc, and he has told me...
"There have been discussions off and on of various towers and mixed use
buildings on Block 70, south of 100 South, but they are not part of the
City Creek project.

So, time will tell, sooner or later time will tell.

[Future Mayor]

I know there isn't a law restricting the height of buildings in the city, but i'm pretty sure the height restrictions are for the middle of the block and I thought there were no restrictions on the corners, according to the quote it's the opposite. If we remember back to CCC the church had to get a variance for the original height on tower 2 because the original height exceeded the mid block height restriction.

I agree that within 10 or so years there will be a taller building the Wells Fargo and COB and I welcome that.

Back to the Utah, I know I would hate to lose a theater that has an interior that looked like this in it's prime. Photo circa 1921, Utah Historical Society.

[Viperlord]

Future mayor, I was responding to Scraperdude801 thread, you just happened to post your thread while I was in the works of posting mine. so therefore you thought the arrows were referring to your post. lol

[Future Mayor]

lol

[delts145]

Future Mayor, do you know if the original detail and craftrmanship of the interior of the Utah Theatre is still intact?

[Scraperdude801]

future mayor maybe I need to clarify. I would not (this is all rather silly, because I do not have that type of bank roll) raze an entire block, I would keep the historic buildings, but In my honest opinion, if it came down to a choice of a new tallest (which I realize wasn't the potential case) or keeping a building that is while historic, but really not that architecturally great on the exterior IMHO. I would rather build the skyscraper and rebuild the Utah theatre in the emerging arts district which would better enliven that area. I agree the building has a great interior, I have never seen the original facade of the exterior, all I have seen is it's recent state which to me looks like an abandoned 2 story box. ... And yes I am very much about filling in the gaps. In this instance I would be filling in a gap in the skyline. ... About the PSB. While that structure is not my cup of tea, I am sure that we can agree that 300 East and 200 south will not show up in our skyline anytime in the near future, and it is far from likely that a skyscraper, or anything that would be of great importance to downtown would come about on that site if it was torn down, mainly because of it's location right now. That whole argument was that there are soo many lots around the city that could have great infill projects. ... I guess what I am getting at is yes we do need to preserve our history, but we also need to secure what are unutilized vantage points, and areas that would energize our city and help to make them open to the right people. I know that Salt Lake is not a huge corporate city, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't have a bright future in store for it we take steps in the right direction. ... Maybe my comment was rash. ... I just feel like those areas that I listen in my previous posts are the make it or break it areas for our fair city.

[Scraperdude801]

more clarification. I wouldn't raze "an entire block" I would only raze the parking garage kiddie corner of the shilo inn (one of the best vantage points in my opinion) , the 1960's looking buildings like the one that used to be a police station, and the abandoned store fronts, and possibly, but not for certain the utah theatre. I would keep all the beautiful historic buildings that are scattered around that block. I would like to open the block midway going east to west, and extend richards street to 200 south.


this is just talk of "what if" of course...


... back to real development news.

[jmonkey]

Hey all. Since you're having this debate about the Utah Theater, please let me chime in. I believe the project is dead as far as both Howa and the Salt Lake County are concerned. Howa's proposal was to renovate the building and sell it to the County; he also had some kind of contractual agreement that the county would have to let the media company Clear Channel manage the theater, or manage the touring shows which would be booked there. The County said Howa's price was vastly inflated--they could get a new, bigger building downtown for less money. They've had outside studies done which say the theater wouldn't work well for staging touring broadway shows, and wouldn't seat enough people. Negotiations between the county and Howa were at an impasse. I think I got all of that correct.

I know that the theater was partitioned into two theaters sometime during the 70's. The original facade is undoubtedly behind the current 'modern' facades, but who knows what condition it is really in. From pictures of the interior, I believe it's been stripped of most of that ornamentation.

The County had their eye on some land west of the Capitol Theater, last I heard, and Howa had a 'for sale' sign on the Utah Theater, so I had thought this project was dead. The storefronts have been boarded up for years, helping make this one of the most desolate sections of Main St. (btw, its between the Kearn's Building, which is at mid-block, and the U S Bank building at the corner--the former wells fargo, first interstate, etc. building). This block is just south of the malls, across the street from all the space that was recently vacated by the Tribune, NAC, and SLCC. It's a block that truly needs help, and one I think the city should focus as much energy on as possible.

I walked by the Utah Theater a couple weeks ago, to grab some lunch at Gandolfo's while I was downtown. I was shocked to see that the shabby storefronts had been cleaned a bit, some cracked windows replaced, and new images of the old theater had been hung in some of the windows. Maybe the project isn't as dead as I've assumed??

I would love to see the Utah Theater restored, but I can't imagine how much of it's original detail has survived years of neglect, and short-sighted improvements. If it gets replaced, I'll cry for it's true death back in the 70's and 80's, and cheer for something to replace dead space.

[delts145]

Also known as Pantages, Orpheum
Add to favorites Utah Theatre
Salt Lake City, UT
148 S. Main Street, Salt Lake City, UT, United States(map)
Status: Closed
Screens: Twin
Style: Unknown
Function: Unknown
Seats: 1759
Chain: Unknown
Architect: B. Marcus Priteca
Firm: Unknown

Circa-1921 view of the Utah's auditorium

Photo courtesy of the Utah State Historical Society (all rights reserved)

The Utah Theater, also known as the Pantages and Orpheum, was built in 1919 for vaudville, but was later converted for film. For many years it was one of downtown Salt Lake's great movie palaces. "The Sound of Music" showed at the theater for two years.

Most of the elaborate ornamentation in the theater was lost in the 1960s when a floor was added to convert the balcony into a second auditorium. A concession stand and escalator were added to the balcony level, but most of its ornamentation remained untouched. The lower theater had pillars added, apparently to support sections of the new floor, and any surviving decorations were covered with drab draperies.

The CityRep group used the theater for live stage productions after Cineplex Odeon let its lease expire in the 1980s, but they were eventually forced to find a new home when the theater was sold.

The new owner, a writer from Park City, planned to restore the building for live entertainment, but it never happened. The theater was sold again and the new owners started a restoration project, but apparently if failed.

The theater has been vacant for years.
Contributed by Grant Smith


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[Future Mayor]

I too would be interested to see what the facade looks like under that fantastic 70/80's "Improvement" I would also guess that the interior has some much needed work to restore it as well. I personally think it would be worth it.

Where I currently reside there is a great theater district that 20-30 years ago was nearly torn down, there are four theaters in this district and one of the stages had actually been torn down before they were able to get a court order to halt demolition. A non profit was formed that has since remodeled three of the four with the fourth one just getting funding to have a major renovation. It is the second largest theater district outside of New York City. I took a tour of the theaters and have attended a few events and those historic jewels are one of the best gathering places in the city. Yes these are larger theaters but a large part of their character is the history behind them. Just my two cents.

I would hope that Howa is able to sell the Utah to a concerned buyer that will decide to refurbish it back into a theater. I think with the growth of the city and state, especially with over 1000 new residential units just in the CBD coming on line in the next 4 - 6 years, and it wouldn't surprise me to see that number double in the next 10, and the addition of several new office buildings. I think the city can easily support capital, utah and a new larger theater for larger broadway shows.

I do think you are right on what has transpired with Howa and the county. I'm guessing that the Howa would be asking the price he was asking for two reasons. One because he would want to restore it to it's original detail because it would be pointless to do it otherwise; and two, because he is a business man and wants to make a profit. While I'm sure he cares about the theater he's not in the non profit business. And I'm sure the county has it's reasons as well. One, because they are a government body and try to be fiscally responsible, and two they probably didn't want to give control over to a for profit entity to manage the productions.

I will attempt to find a picture of the Facade and post it on here.

Scrapper I to would like to see some sort of N/S E/W connection between those blocks as well, condsidering how the block is set up maybe even a three direction connection, N/S/W.

[Future Mayor]

Thanks for the information Delts you must have been posting at the same time I posted my last comment.

While the exterior is not as architecturally significant as the Capital Theater (which Ironically was once also called the Orpheum), the interior definetly is. Here are some images of the Utah/Pantages, all images are from the Utah State Historcial Societies web site.

Exterior



Dome Detail


Ceiling



Lobby


Interior


Flooring


Seating


Stage


Foyer



Lobby Entrance



That's enough I guess. I figured I'd post a bunch of pictures for a few reasons. One, to show how beautiful the theater once was and could be again. Two because there hasn't been a whole lot of new conversation on here the past few days, and three, I'm bored at work this morning. :-)

I am amazed at the number of theaters our fair city once had that no longer exist. I truly think it would be a shame to lose one of the remaining ones. SAVE THE UTAH

[delts145]

Here is that site which Jmonkey originally turned us on to.

http://history.utah.gov/utah_history_research_center/digitalcollections.html scroll down to and click on, "shipler commercial photograph collection."

While the Utah/Pantages wasn't as significant on the exterior as the Capitol Theatre,(few theatres are) it certainly was one of America's great jewels on the interior. I would like to know exactly how much of that incredible detailing is still in place. I hope it can be returned to its former glory. A restored jewel like that will only attract more development to downtown.

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[Future Mayor]

Originally Posted by delts145

Here is that site which Jmonkey originally turned us on to.

http://history.utah.gov/utah_history_research_center/digitalcollections.html scroll down to and click on, "shipler commercial photograph collection."

While the Utah/Pantages wasn't as significant on the exterior as the Capitol Theatre,(few theatres are) it certainly was one of America's great jewels on the interior. I would like to know exactly how much of that incredible detailing is still in place. I hope it can be returned to its former glory. A restored jewel like that will only attract more development to downtown.

..

That is the site I found all of the above images. Sounds like you and I are on the same page on this one Delts.

I'm not sure on the space availability that it might require for a new large theater but what about the space across from Capital, those two 3 or 4 story red brick 80's buildings that are part of the American Towers plaza, that currently house the Red Door and Olive Garden. If the space is large enough that would make a great location for a new theater, the lobby entrance could face the corner of 200 S and W Temple. Or another location could be the parking lot north of the the Peery. Either of these locations would put Rose Wagner, New Theater, Captital, Utah and Off Broadway all within a three block area. Not bad in my opinion.

Heres another one of my crappy what if maps, showing a potential for a decent theater district. It includes my two possible locations for a new large theater, hey maybe even two (lol), Rose Wagner, Captial, Utah, and Off Broadway.

[Sight-Seer]

It's sad that they don't build things like that anymore. It makes you wonder why. It's a significant part of the cultural history of the city. It should be preserved. I think the owner should get plenty of public financial assistance to make it worth while. I'd certainly donate.