Millennium Line - Broadway Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[The_Henry_Man]

^The underground bus loop should definitely be built. The current bus loop is located at a very wrong and awkward location. Too far away for most students (esp walking from Kenny/Bucannan Buildings). The old bus loop is now way too small and nearly impossible to expand because of existing buildings just across and adjacent to it. The best choice: underground. Plan it properly. Huge enough so that it can plan for more commuters in the long term, at a great location (just under University Blvd and East Mall). Secondly, it's an ideal layout for the future Skytrain M-Line western terminus station. It's highly organized and efficient transit hub. It's an excellent compromise.

However, I don't like the idea of putting market housing right in the middle of campus. The urban landscape is too disorganized that way. The very central part of campus should be for academic purposes only, and you can build as many houses in its periphery as possible. The central part of campus for academic purposes will be a lot better for students because they don't have to walk for miles to transfer between classes. The new Life Sciences Building is at a wrong location. Really, middle of nowhere, considering that the Biology Building is very close to the SUB.

[raggedy13]

Originally Posted by mr.x2

^ it's my first year at UBC, i can certainly say there is a vibe there....it's hardly explain.....and i do really like that grassy knoll, hard to explain why either. i've had a few lunches with friends there already and there's just something about it.

I hear ya. I was hasty in saying there isn't a vibe. There is one but it's almost too fragmented to put into words and I don't see it as dependent on the direction of development on campus. If you were a person who went to UBC for the last 30 years you'd see that this place has a history of constant change so I don't think any positive aspects of its character are in danger from new development. My brother is just 5 years older than me but even to him the campus has changed significantly since when he went here. And don't even get me started on what my parents think about the changes since they went here.

I can see why people like the grassy knoll, particularly now when the weather is nice, but once the rainy season hits it's just a desolate slippery mound that gets in your way. Just my opinion though.

[j4893k]

Originally Posted by raggedy13

UBC doesn't have a vibe. The whole campus has been developed in such a hodge-podge manner with no sense of cohesion/unifying design principles. Most buildings are stand-alone attempts at unique architecture that relate little to their surroundings and even less to neighbouring structures and are at this point in time largely dated looking. A larger scaled plan such as what is proposed would go a long way in making sense of the campus core. University Blvd as it now stands is a useless eyesore and little more than a giant parking lot at its center (and not even an easily accessible one at that).

I don't know why people give a damn about housing being built around campus or having more non-students around. It allows for smarter, denser, more sustainable mixed-uses of existing campus lands which otherwise aren't really being used to their full potential. With the campus being as large and sprawling as it is, more efficient land use couldn't hurt. It's not like there isn't more room for classrooms/student housing. The campus is huge! And as a significant benefit to students, more permanent residents in the area will bring with it more retail and transit options.

I don't know what the deal is with the grassy knoll. I don't think I've ever even sat on it before in my life. Personally I kind of find it annoying as it blocks the most direct route to get to and from the SUB and the bus loop. Why should I have to walk around this thing all the time just so that a handful of people can enjoy sitting on it during their breaks for the 2 months out of the school year when it isn't pissing rain. Anyways, that's all for my rant.

I agree. Plus, when it isn't raining, I find the knoll to be not so grassy anyways.

However, I am completely against the construction of an expensive eyesore that will be inadequate for current and future uses once completed. It's such a waste of money. Screw the knoll, lets get a nice building that people will enjoy and use (more so than the knoll) with a skytrain ready terminal.

Btw, I'm pretty sure that a Save-On is planned for the campus somewhere... maybe the village?

[mr.x]

^The underground bus loop should definitely be built. The current bus loop is located at a very wrong and awkward location. Too far away for most students (esp walking from Kenny/Bucannan Buildings). The old bus loop is now way too small and nearly impossible to expand because of existing buildings just across and adjacent to it. The best choice: underground. Plan it properly. Huge enough so that it can plan for more commuters in the long term, at a great location (just under University Blvd and East Mall). Secondly, it's an ideal layout for the future Skytrain M-Line western terminus station. It's highly organized and efficient transit hub. It's an excellent compromise.

I certainly agree with you, however the underground bus loop isn't designed to be SkyTrain accessible. Any future SkyTrain extension to the heart of UBC at the bus loop would have to require a second ground level entrance. Ideally, you'd want to have one unified transit entrance but it's not possible.

The current plan for the bus loop is a large triangular round-about. The sides of it are the bus bays/stops, and ideally you'd want to have the SkyTrain station under the bus loop. The bus loop level could be the concourse level of the SkyTrain station, and if you descend down an escalator at the loop you'll be at the SkyTrain platform. This is very MTR-like....it's how station interchanges work: first level - concourse; second level - platform for line 1; third level - platform for line 2.

Somehow, the bus loop entrances should also be the SkyTrain station entrance.

However, I don't like the idea of putting market housing right in the middle of campus. The urban landscape is too disorganized that way. The very central part of campus should be for academic purposes only, and you can build as many houses in its periphery as possible. The central part of campus for academic purposes will be a lot better for students because they don't have to walk for miles to transfer between classes. The new Life Sciences Building is at a wrong location. Really, middle of nowhere, considering that the Biology Building is very close to the SUB.

i agree, there shouldn't be any housing there.

Btw, I'm pretty sure that a Save-On is planned for the campus somewhere... maybe the village?

the village?

[SpongeG]

UBC certainly feels hodge podge and weird to an outsider visitor such as myself

the university campuses in ontario have such a nice feeling to them - you really know you are on a campus

sometimes driving around UBC I think are we really on a campus here?

[raggedy13]

Originally Posted by The_Henry_Man

However, I don't like the idea of putting market housing right in the middle of campus. The urban landscape is too disorganized that way. The very central part of campus should be for academic purposes only, and you can build as many houses in its periphery as possible. The central part of campus for academic purposes will be a lot better for students because they don't have to walk for miles to transfer between classes. The new Life Sciences Building is at a wrong location. Really, middle of nowhere, considering that the Biology Building is very close to the SUB.

I guess I'm just a fan of mixed uses. I tend to think of it this way, once the students leave campus at night the housing tenants come home from work keeping a more balanced campus population and keeping more people around the centre of campus for longer stretches of the day. It also makes a safer vibe for those students who have night classes or live on campus that may have safety concerns at night time as there will be more people out walking their dogs/jogging/hanging out having drinks on patios etc. Also creates a more balanced commuting pattern, not that that is of much relevance to students.

Personally I think the centre of campus should be for more mixed uses rather than purely academic (at least in terms of classroom space). It is good for the centre to have such things as the SUB, bookstore, bus loop, retail, restaurants, pubs, etc because they are services that all students use. The campus centre should be a gathering place for all students. But putting buildings used by only one faculty such as the Chemistry & Physics building on the northwest corner of University BLVD and East Mall only draws a select number of students to the area (ie only Science Faculty students). I agree that other academic-related buildings such as the SUB/bookstore are entirely necessary though and that market housing should never displace such things, but isn't the housing planned for the area above retail anyways? So it doesn't displace any student-related services at least. Plus I feel the campus could use a good injection of more centrally located retail. The Village is great but it is nowhere near most student residences and a lot of what the SUB has to offer shuts down early.

[j4893k]

Originally Posted by mr.x2

the village?

The area where the discount bookstore and mcdonalds is. its the first bus stop after the loops.

[The_Henry_Man]

Just suddenly had a thought. Another thing that UBC REALLY needs is an even better and more convenient shuttle bus system. The current C20/22 is not good enough. It only shuttles people from residences to the bus loop and their routes are the outside perimeters of the entire campus. What about routes that go through Main/West/East Mall? It would do a lot of justice for students who have classes at either ends of campus.

Maybe this system doesn't have to be maintained by Translink. UBC can probably manage this on their own.

[SpongeG]

lazy bums can't walk?

[fever]

I think UBC should have a place that is devoted to the functions of a university - a place where there are classrooms and offices for faculty but no commerce or residences. Every good university that I know of has such a formal area. While these places are worth protecting, they should be limited and contrasted with an adjacent place where the normal functions of the city can take place. Because UBC is so large, it's authority extends over all adjacent lands and it has been able to apply its forgettable half-university half-suburb formula aside from Main Mall.

I'd like the University to allow some street, preferably University Boulevard, to become the commercial street. Where the two contrasting streets intersect would become the natural centre of activity on campus.

The grassy knoll is special, I think, because it best plays this role. It sits nearest the SUB, which is the most commercial centre on campus aside from the village, but also close enough to Main Mall that it is on everybody's way to class

[raggedy13]

Originally Posted by The_Henry_Man

Just suddenly had a thought. Another thing that UBC REALLY needs is an even better and more convenient shuttle bus system. The current C20/22 is not good enough. It only shuttles people from residences to the bus loop and their routes are the outside perimeters of the entire campus. What about routes that go through Main/West/East Mall? It would do a lot of justice for students who have classes at either ends of campus.

Maybe this system doesn't have to be maintained by Translink. UBC can probably manage this on their own.

Well the current shuttle was only taken over by Translink last year and replaced the former UBC run security shuttle. I agree though that a more centrally oriented route would be beneficial. SpongeG - yes if you had to walk a 30 min round trip to get to class/the nearest bus/buy a jug of milk you wouldn't be so quick to label us poor students as lazy.

[squeezied]

i dont know how viable it is to have shuttles on west/main/east mall. these streets are already very pedestrain-friendly. at the hour, it's a hassle driving along west and east mall as students walk from class to class, constantly crossing streets. and don't even think about main mall, it's bevy of students on the sidewalks, on the roads, the boulevard... and at the north end u have the nice courtyard in front of the koerner library, i would hate to see any sort of automotives there.

basically, it's not needed. classes of a certain faculty are clustered around a certain area. arts in the north, science in the center, engineering in the south, forestry in the deep south, and the rest are to insignificant for me to care about ;P. but yes, there's the occasional next class which is all at the other end of campus, but that shouldn't take more than 10mins, hence one hour class end ten minutes short of an hour. unless you're an unfortunate engineer-to-be who has an engineering class near the engineering crain after his english class in buchanan, u'd just have to suck it up

but the bottom line is that it would be quite difficult(to go through the masses of students) and impractical(as shuttles would have to be very frequent around the hour and infrequent between the hour. so what are the drivers gonna do then?) to impliment shuttle services on these routes.

but it's a good idea nevertheless. i always thought that a leveled escalator(the ones u find in airports on long stretches of walk) would be cool thing to impliment onto main mall. but the weathering of it and other whatnots of it would probably make that a bad idea...

[Jared]

Henryman:

Initially, I thought the underground bus loop would be cool, but it's far too small. It cannot accomodate trolleys, and is so small that it will be at capacity in about 15 years. Maybe they could build it bigger, but it would be very pricey.

raggedy:

you mentioned that UB basically just turns into an ugly parking lot. If you read the fine print, the redisigned UB will still be a parking lot, the renderings are complete BS. The "water feature" got scrapped and turned into a parking lot. The brownish pediestrian plaza shown is in reality planned to be grey asphalt for cars.

WRT shuttles between classes: I believe there is a program where you can volunteer to clean/fix up bicycles, and if you do it enough (only 3 hours of time i think) you get a key which can open locks on a number of "communal bikes" which can be used to get between classes.


Does anyone have the renderings of the other two designs, btw? I cannot recall what they look like...

[Lee_Haber8]

Do you think UBC should get two Millenium stops, say one at Westbrook Mall and one at the Main Mall?

[raggedy13]

^I don't think they're really far enough away to warrant it, plus it just isn't necessary, especially since the most likely spot for a Skytrain station on campus would be closer to East Mall which would be inbetween Westbrook and Main Malls, serving both areas quite well. The distance between Westbrook and Main is only like 5-7 mins if walking.

[squeezied]

question is, "will it even be extended to ubc?" given that it does extend to arbutus first, will b-lines to ubc be sufficient enough?

[SpongeG]

Transit line duel feared


SUBMITTED

Port Moody Mayor Joe Trasolini is concerned building of the Evergreen Line may fall behind the West Broadyway extension of SkyTrain in TransLink’s list of priorities.


Sep 19 2007


A behind-the-scenes battle over which part of Metro Vancouver should get the next rapid transit line has just broken wide open.

Vancouver Mayor Sam Sullivan announced Friday he’ll begin a formal lobbying campaign to promote a proposed extension of the Millennium SkyTrain line west along Broadway to first Arbutus and eventually UBC.

He said the heavily congested Broadway corridor is a nightmare for bus users and needs to become the region’s next top priority after the planned $1-billion Evergreen Line.

Although Sullivan has not officially sought to leap-frog the West Broadway extension past the planned light rail line to Port Moody and Coquitlam, his move has angered Port Moody Mayor Joe Trasolini.

“The announcement of their lobbying is ill-timed, premature and it will give senior levels of government the opportunity to divide and conquer,” he said.

Trasolini said Vancouver needs the Broadway extension, but should have waited until all funding is in place for the Evergreen Line.

The project has $400 million committed by TransLink and $170 million from the province. Nothing yet has come from Ottawa but Victoria has indicated more contributions will come to bridge the shortfall.

A review of how the project may work as a public-private partnership is underway.

Trasolini said Vancouver’s campaign will give senior governments the chance to point at the two expensive projects and question which should proceed.

“They can say ‘You guys can’t get your act together. You’re looking for more Evergreen Line funding but you’re also looking for more money for a line in Vancouver. Get your act together.’”

The Evergreen Line, long the top regional priority, has been bypassed twice before – first by the Millennium Line and then by the Canada Line – both times because senior governments favoured other routes.

“It looks like history is repeating itself,” Trasolini fumed.

Northeast sector cities east of Burnaby are supposed to take much of Metro Vancouver’s future growth, but that depends heavily on the rapid transit line.

Port Moody council has blocked all major development approvals since March – freezing projects worth $2 billion – and Trasolini vows that will continue until the Evergreen Line is approved.

“The Livable Region Strategic Plan told us to grow, grow, grow,” he said. “We have grown under the promise of a rapid transit line.”

He said that growth will continue to “grind to a halt” putting increased development pressure on the rest of Metro Vancouver.

Vancouver directors on TransLink persuaded the board in June to start spending money to study the Broadway extension.

TransLink has estimated a Millennium Line extension as far as Cambie, to tie in with the Canada Line, would cost $400 million. What type of line would run further west on Broadway is undetermined.

Burnaby Mayor Derek Corrigan said Sullivan is “dreaming in technicolour” to think there’s even enough money for Evergreen let alone Broadway.

He said Vancouver is wrong to divert attention away from the northeast sector priority.

Corrigan also argues the province must put much more money on the table.

“The provincial government is down from formally taking care of 100 per cent of these rapid transit lines to funding less than 20 per cent,” he said.

“There’s no way the property tax payer or TransLink can afford another expensive tunnelled line in Vancouver.”

jnagel

http://www.surreyleader.com/portals-code/list.cgi?paper=73&cat=23&id=1067431&more=0

[raggedy13]

It would be really nice if the Province/Feds would just surprise us with a nice chunk of change to put towards transit... or have the Gateway Program fail and have funding diverted to transit.

[Jared]

The Broadway extension makes far more sense, as it will get magnitudes more ridership. Although I support a NES sector line, it certainly isn't nearly as needed, and the fact that it's higher up on the priority list has far more to do with regional politics than it does reasoned transportation policy.

[officedweller]

It's the classic chicken and egg routine - build rapid transit to shape growth (streetcar suburbs and M-Line Skytrain) or to serve existng need?

The LRSP (which mandates the Evergreen Line route) leans more towards shaping growth and the use of rapid transit as a planning tool than for serving existing needs.
If you always built to serve need, you'd never reach the suburbs (if the core is always more dense) and the suburban growth patterns (as they are built) wouldn't be compatible with building mass transit at a later date.