LOS ANGELES | Downtown Project Rundown 3.0

[spoonman]

All these comments bashing Gaslamp show that you are all in denial about how much DTLA sucks ass... Those "plastic" buildings in the Gaslamp are older than almost all of the structures in DTLA. Gaslamp was a former red-light district 20 years ago and has slowly evolved since. It didn't just get cleaned up last week by some city mandate that called for a street with lots of restaurants. There are many other businesses other than restaurants in the Gaslamp, but the reason you don't see more offices there is because the building height limit (12 floors roughly) in the Gaslamp makes office construction less profitable. For those of you that don't know, the Gaslamp is only made of of 2-3 streets that span for a couple blocks.

[LosAngelesBeauty]

^ I don't think DTLA is better than DTSD today. I was just down in DTSD a few weeks ago. My bf and I walked around DTSD to fully experience it. And in all honesty, we concluded that it's a nice downtown, but it doesn't have the big city feel. It's much more quaint. If you like that (which a lot of people do), then that is perfect!

But DTLA is going toward a different path. It's got the bones for a larger feel. So in the future, it'll be up to the individual to decide what they prefer more of. Perhaps a little variety in life can't be a bad thing either...

[Steve2726]

Originally Posted by fridayinla

As I was walking over to the Daily Grill for dinner tonight, noticed something interesting going on at the 1027 Wilshire site. A small section on the north side of the lot is taped off, where a truck rig is drilling dirt out of the ground.

Last I read about this project, AMIDI Real Estate Group has all entitlements in place and they planned to start construction by 3Q 2007. I don't want to sound any false alarms, but my better judgement says this is probably construction related. What do you guys think? I'll try to snap a photo tomorrow on my way to work.

They also own 1010 Wilshire. If the rumors of that building changing to rentals from condos is correct than I would think the likelihood of the 1027 tower breaking ground has diminished. I hope I am wrong tho as that is a beautiful looking building. Here are some updated renders of 1010 Wilshire-

[colemonkee]

It's tough to really judge without seeing it, but based on Friday's description it sounds like soil testing going on at 1027 Wilshire. If that's the case, construction could be a few weeks or a few months off, depending on where they are in the engineering process. A photo or visit by the site will help clear things up. It really doesn't matter to me when this one starts, but that it starts eventually. It's one of my favorite proposed towers.

Steve, great renders of 1010 Wilshire. I don't see 1010 Wilshire going lease as a death knell for 1027 Wilshire. It is most likely the developer's foresight that it might be better off to wait until home loan financing becomes more readily available, and lease the units out until then. Leasing will be strong downtown during the mortgage slowdown. People are still making - and spending - money, it's just harder for them to get financing. Plus, I'd bet the condo map is already done, which means the developer can always convert and sell easily once the market turns back up.

[fridayinla]

^I don't think the 1010 Wilshire changing to rentals should have much effect on the 1027 Wilshire project. 1010 will be opening in today's market, but 1027 would be late 2010. A savy developer would realize that the market could shift by then. I know the Park Fifth developers are even banking on it.

I saw a few dark turquoise panels installed on the Wilshire side of 1010 a while back and wondered if that was the final exterior. Looks like it is. They're making a lot of noticeable progress on the building now and looks like there will be about 4 retail spaces. Very nice addition to City West.

[Steve2726]

You both have made compelling arguments. I hope you guys are right and lets hope this soil testing doesn't turn up any methane or earthquake faults...

[colemonkee]

^ The only methane on that site will likely come from the construction workers.

[Echo Park]

Originally Posted by colemonkee

^ The only methane on that site will likely come from the construction workers.

[BrandonJXN]

They must've gotten the construction workers from Fontana.

[LongBeachUrbanist]

The SD bashing is unnecessary. San Diego is San Diego. And anyway, nobody's suggesting we turn Broadway into the Gaslamp District.

I think citywatch's point (and mine too) is that we can learn a lot from the Gaslamp's example. As k3d suggested, how about starting with some additional city streetlamps?

NYC's Little Italy is not at all comparable to L.A.'s Historic Core. Little Italy is an old residential neighborhood in the most dense part of America's most dense city. L.A.'s Historic Core is a commercial district that has been neglected for decades. The Historic Core might be comparable to SoHo if it were surrounded by existing neighborhoods and well integrated with them. But it's not.

The Historic Core needs two things: an aesthetic upgrade, and better connections with surrounding neighborhoods. (The latter means no deadzones.) IMO, if you take care of these things, the neighborhood will flourish automatically. And if you don't take care of these things, it will be nearly impossible to create a great neighborhood.

[LongBeachUrbanist]

The following quote (a post by "John Crandell" on blogdowntown.com) has some great ideas. I added color to ideas I particularly liked.

"The section of Broadway from Fifth to Sixth, including all four corners of both intersections seems to be most 'key' to eventually reclaiming the avenue from decay. The AGENCY, along with Hon. Councilwoman and Mayor acutely need to step forth and gather all of the property owners into a development corporation. Then enjoin outside investors."

Perhaps the entire ground floor of the Arcade Building could become some sort of retailing breakthrough, an array of gustatory delights from all over the planet."

Connections: any serious revamp of Pershing Square should consider crossing Hill at midblock and punching through to Broadway with a pedestrian connection lined with intimate retail. Think of Olvera Street - scale and intimacy. What if a developer were to buy the jewelry mart at Sixth & Hill and revamp the structure (and facade) into residential and add a residential tower above the Redline portal at Fifth & Hill? Many more residents in this area would prove a boon for Broadway."

[Quixote]

Another 74 Apartments For Fifth Street

News Brief

A long-planned adaptive reuse conversion of the 12-story Chester Williams Building at 215 W. Fifth St. received final approval last week. Developer Fifth Street Funding, which is currently transforming the nearby 1924 Arcade Building, plans to create 74 fully finished rental units, which could eventually be sold as condominiums. Mideb Nominees Inc., which is developing the adjacent Jewelry Trades Building, is overseeing construction on the newly announced project. "We go for a fully finished unit, we don't build lofts as far as exposed concrete. It is all plaster, dry-wall, marble, granite floors, hardwood floors, that sort of thing," said Greg Martin of Mideb. The building's unusually wide hallways will be preserved to the original layout, with fully restored marble corridors, rather than make room for extra units, Martin added. Construction is expected to begin in early fall and end as soon as late 2008. Christopher Compton Architects is involved in the project.

Source: http://www.downtownnews.com/articles/2007/08/27/news/news_briefs/at03.txt


From Flickr, by fridayinla

[dktshb]

Originally Posted by edluva

am i the only person here who doesn't want dtla to become another gaslamp district? the gaslamp is vibrant and all, but don't you guys think it's a bit manufactured? it's nothing like for instance any given neighborhood of manhattan, where the hotspots are more organically distributed and reflect an ongoing evolution of the city as a whole.

the gaslamp is fun, but what real urban environment has door after door of themed restaurants with outdoor seating areas designated by city-blocks of steel perimeter fencing. it's little different from 3rd st promenade except with restaurants in place of retail, and thru-traffic. both are scripted pedestrian malls. there's something about these modern planning "successes" that make the newly gentrified downtowns really plastic. there's an irony in consciously designating retail centers and calling them "real cities" when they're almost entirely scripted. or for instance, erecting a self-conscious "little italy" gateway over a neighborhood which, like the rest of the city, is constantly evolving. what makes these any different from the caruso developments?

I agree. We will have this contrived environment at LA Live. Let's let Broadway evolve organically.

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by fridayinla

As I was walking over to the Daily Grill for dinner tonight, noticed something interesting going on at the 1027 Wilshire site. A small section on the north side of the lot is taped off, where a truck rig is drilling dirt out of the ground.

I don't want to sound any false alarms, but my better judgement says this is probably construction related.

I remember first seeing the rendering of the 1027 tower some time ago (late last yr?) & thinking it was so ambitious that the plans for it probably would end up collecting dust. Part of that skepticism is cuz I have a hard time thinking of any totally new devlpr west of the fwy as being more than shorter wood framed projs, like your Vero condo bldg, or the Piero or glo. So the thought of a really sleek highrise actually breaking ground around there in the not too distant future blows my mind.

Someone said that if the 1010 wilshire conversion proj is switching from condos to apts, then that meant 1027 was less likely to go forward. But if the amidi group owns both 1010 & 1027, then they're fully aware of what immediate competition exists in the hood (it's themselves!), & what problems may be starting to show up with slow sales. IOW, their eyes should be wide open.

The only projs I haven't wanted to see delayed, much less stopped, are parkfifth & the Grand Ave devlpt. Before that, it was Medallion.

I thought the glass tower was a sure thing before mid 2007. But its location at 11th & Grand, as important as it is, IMO hasn't seemed to be in as sore need of new construction ASAP. The same thing with South Gp's Jardin (now South Fig) tower.

The LA Central proj also fell into the same category to me, but after seeing how the other side of Staples needs totally new devlpt to balance LA Live, that's becoming an ASAP type of proj.

At this point in time, 1027 Wilshire is gravy. It will be awesome if it really does break ground shortly. But if it doesn't, I won't feel the same way I would if parkfifth is delayed next yr, or Grand Ave is delayed this yr.

However, 1027 would be more of an ASAP type of proj to me if it were located a few blocks to the east & south. Maybe as a gap filler of the big deadzone that sits on the east side of Flower St between 7th & 8th Sts., directly across from the 7th street Marketplace.

As for why I'm forcing myself to have some new found patience, beyond where a proj like 1027 is located in the hood, is cuz of stories like this:




Boom of condo crash loudest in Miami

Maya Bell | Sentinel Staff Writer
August 27, 2007

The champagne-popping days are over for Natalie and David Luongo, who banked enough money flipping a South Florida condo three years ago to stage a $100,000 wedding. Now the couple are spending restless nights wrestling with the question that looms like a guillotine: Should they walk away from the $117,000 deposit they plunked down on another investment condo in the ritzy Miami-Dade enclave of Bal Harbour?

Or should they close on the one-bedroom unit, which is similar to others now on the market for less than the $585,000 they agreed to pay?

"It's painful and scary," Natalie Luongo, 31, said. "We saw the frenzy, and we bought in. Now we're paying the consequences."

Just how many other speculators face the same dilemma in the nation's most glutted condo market will become clear during the next two years. That is when 25,000 new condo units, most of them rising in or near Miami's downtown, will flood an area already saturated with 23,000 condos listed for sale. An additional 40,000 units have been approved, but analysts doubt the majority will break ground.

Orlando and other Florida cities -- Naples, Fort Myers, Tampa and Sarasota among them -- also have huge condo gluts. With 4,440 condos listed for sale, Orlando has an unprecedented 29-month supply, and last month sales plummeted 64 percent lower than a year ago. But Miami, with its unmatched volume and untold number of speculative buyers, is ripe for the hardest fall in the U.S.

"Miami is the poster child for the condo bust," said Jack McCabe, CEO of McCabe Research & Consulting, a real-estate market-analysis firm located in Deerfield Beach. "There are probably only two cities in the world with more construction: Shanghai and Dubai. Unfortunately, there is going to be a lot of foreclosures . . ., and developers, lenders, title companies and real-estate companies will go under."

Many analysts, McCabe among them, predict the area's condo collapse will drag the rest of the state into recession. Other experts scoff at that notion. But nearly all agree grim times lie ahead.

Usually joyous milestones, closings in Miami are about to become somber days of reckoning for electricians, waiters, retirees and other amateur speculators who counted on making a quick killing in a market they thought would rise forever.

No one knows how many units speculators bought. But as early as 2004, McCabe and Lew Goodkin of Miami-based Goodkin Consulting warned that up to 70 percent of the condos rising in Miami were being snapped up by people who didn't plan to hold on to them, much less live in them. That was evident from the hordes who camped overnight, fought over lottery numbers, even paid homeless men $20 and a pack of cigarettes to hold their places in long lines, all for the chance to put 20 percent deposits on condos that existed only in brochures. The frenzy for some projects was so fevered that some developers raised their prices hourly.

[JDRCRASH]

Is Miami even relevant?
Besides, the full potential of the Los Angeles market dwarfs Miami's.
And its no @#$% joke. While Miami and Las Vegas start to head down the economic roller coaster, many parts of Los Angeles(including some in Downtown), are only picking up speed and gaining steam.



It's like a soda bottle; when shaken enough, there's a point to where the cap erupts.

After more than 60 years of Suburban prosperity, as old Ordinances are torn down........and as the basin begins to run out of space.....nothing, and I mean NOTHING, not even the might of the New York Stock Exchange will stop the resurrection of the Economic Phoenix that lies in Los Angeles.

HAH, go ahead and call my bluff by saying "LMFAO", but believe me, we have only tasted what Urban lifestyle is all about.....

[BrandonJXN]

Miami is relevent. It's the poster child of what NOT to do when it comes to devlopment.

[JDRCRASH]

You mean overspending?

[WonderlandPark]

Originally Posted by ThreeHundred

Miami is relevent. It's the poster child of what NOT to do when it comes to devlopment.

Its also relevant because the BANKS and FINANCIERS got burned there and will be reluctant to repeat the experience in L.A., San Diego or elsewhere.

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by spoonman

Those "plastic" buildings in the Gaslamp are older than almost all of the structures in DTLA.

Your post made me do some homework.

First of all, do'h!! I referred to it previously as gasLIGHT, not GasLAMP.

I didn't think it was possible that a city that has had a smaller population than LA's going back to at least 1860 would end up with so many oldtime historic bldgs, or so many more than in DTLA.

Damn! You're right.

Placing the list below in relationship to LA, the Bradbury bldg was built in 1893, & the Irvine Byrne/Pan pacific bldg (now converted to lofts) dates back to 1895. Those 2 bldgs are among the oldest in the hood, with few or none other predating them.

I guess the greater number of big quakes in LA over the past 80 yrs, & maybe the greater amt of churning in the devlpt industry in DTLA----where more ppl, devlprs with $$ in particular, have wanted to replace old bldgs thru the decades----have resulted in fewer of the hood's really old bldgs surviving.


1. William Heath Davis House, 1850 410 Island Avenue
2. Chinese Laundry, 1923 527 4th Avenue
3. Tai Sing Building, 1923 539 4th Avenue
4. Pacifica Hotel, 1910 547 4th Avenue
5. Lester Hotel, 1906 417 Market Street
6. Quin Building, 1930 500 4th Avenue
7. Casa De Tomas Addition, 1930 (Sewing Factory) 520 4th Avenue
8. Cotheret Building, 1903 (Gaslamp Hotel) 536 4th Avenue
9. Royal Pie Bakery, 1884 544 4th Avenue
10. Frey Block Building, 1911 345 Market Street
11. Broker's Building, 1889 404 Market Street
12. Carriage Works, 1890 655 4th Avenue
13. Labor Temple Building, 1907 (Horton Parsons Hall) 743 4th Avenue
14. Paris Hotel, 1910 409 F Street
15. Ingle Building, 1906 801 4th Avenue
16. Exchange Club Building, 1905 815 4th Avenue
17. Panama Cafe, 1907 827 4th Avenue
18. Windsor Hotel, 1887 843 4th Avenue
19. Lawyer's Block Building, 1889 901 4th Avenue
20. Schmitt Building, 1888 951 4th Avenue
21. Granger Building, 1904 964 5th Avenue
22. †First National Bank Building, 1884 904 5th Avenue
23. Woolworth Building, 1922 953 5th Avenue
24. Dalton Building, 1911 939 5th Avenue
25. Howard Building, 1887 933 5th Avenue
26. Watts-Robinson Building, 1913 903 5th Avenue
27. Onyx Building, 1910 852 5th Avenue
28. San Diego Hardware, 1910 840 5th Avenue
29. Ingersoll Tutton Building, 1894 832 5th Avenue
30. Mercantile Building 822 5th Avenue
31. Keating Building, 1890 432 F Street
32. †Louis Bank of Commerce, 1888 835 5th Avenue
33. †Nesmith-Greeley Building, 1887 825 5th Avenue
34. Hubbell Building, 1887 813-823 5th Avenue
35. Marston Building, 1881 809 5th Avenue
36. Spencer Ogden Building, 1874 770 5th Avenue
37. Loring Building, 1873 764 5th Avenue
38. Fritz Building, 1909 760 5th Avenue
39. Dunham Building, 1888 750 5th Avenue
40. Pat's Little Theater 746 5th Avenue
41. †Llewelyn Building, 1887 722 5th Avenue
42. †Cole Block Building, 1890 702 5th Avenue
43. William Penn Hotel, 1920 511 F Street
44. Dream Theater, 1885 755 5th Avenue
45. Pierce-Field Building, 1885 753 5th Avenue
46. †Old City Hall, 1874 664 5th Avenue
47. Old City Hall Addition, 1975 (Bijou Theater) 658 5th Avenue
48. †Backesto Building, 1873 614 5th Avenue
49. Bancroft Building, 1886 665 5th Avenue
50. Casino Theater, 1912 643 5th Avenue
51. †Yuma Building, 1888 631 5th Avenue
52. Combination Store, 1880 621 5th Avenue
53. McGurck Block Building, 1887 611 5th Avenue
54. Young Building, 1883 (Sun Cafe) 421 Market Street
55. Timkin Building, 1894 568 5th Avenue
56. Montijo Building, 1895 560 5th Avenue
57. Marin Hotel, 1888 552 5th Avenue
58. Loewenstein Building, 1887 544 5th Avenue
59. Stingaree Hotel, 1887 538 5th Avenue
60. Lincoln Hotel, 1913 536 5th Avenue
61. Yamada Building, 1869 516 5th Avenue
62. Callan Hotel, 1878 502 5th Avenue
63. Higgins Building, 1887 527 5th Avenue
64. Manila Cafe, 1930 515 5th Avenue
65. Nanking Building, 1912 467 5th Avenue
66. Island Hotel, 1877 449 5th Avenue
67. Grand Pacific Hotel, 1887 366 5th Avenue
68. Pioneer Warehouse, 1918 301 4th Avenue
69. Brunswig Drug Company, 1900 383 5th Avenue
70. TM Cobb Company Building, 1974 415 K Street
71. Buel-Town Company Building, 1898 274 5th Avenue
72. Samuel I. Fox Building, 1929 531 Broadway
73. St. James Hotel, 1912 844 6th Avenue
74. Sheldon Block, 1888 822 6th Avenue
75. George Hill Building, 1897 527 F Street
76. Snyder Building, 1923 748 6th Avenue
77. I.O.O.F. Building, 1882 526 Market Street
78. Alan John Factory, 1908 568 6th Avenue
79. Simmons Hotel, 1906 540 6th Avenue
80. Sterling Hardware Building, 1924 530 6th Avenue
81. New York Hotel, 1887 520 6th Avenue
82. Produce Market Building, 1918 454 6th Avenue
83. Manos Market, 1896 444 6th Avenue
84. Greenbaum Market Building, 1915 528 J Street
85. Whitney Building, 1914 345 4th Avenue
86. Chinese Mission Building, 1927 400 3rd Avenue
87. Quong Building, 1913 416 3rd Avenue
88. Chinese Consolidated Benevolent Association, 1911 428 3rd Avenue
89. Quin Residence, 1888 429 3rd Avenue
90. Ying-On Merchants & Labor Benevolent Association, 1925 500 3rd Avenue
91. Ying-On Annex, 1887 502 3rd Avenue
92. Plants & Fireproofing Building, 1928 540 3rd Avenue
93. Horton Grand/Kahle Saddlery Hotels, 1886 311 Island
94. San Diego Lumber Company Building, 1926 170 6th Avenue


Still, gateway signs in DTSD like this:




are a bit too theme park-ish for my taste. Not the worse thing, certainly, but overly manufactured by the standards of most big towns. IOW, can anyone imagine a city like NY having signs that say "little italy" or "SoHo", or "chinatown" arching above streets in Manhattan?

And the cultural scene in DTLA does have more depth----for instance, the Music Ctr, MOCA, the Colburn School, the Fashion Institute, 2nd largest garment industry in US, the LA Times----than the scene in DTSD, or, as described by LAB, more of a big city feel.

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by Westsidelife

A long-planned adaptive reuse conversion of the 12-story Chester Williams Building at 215 W. Fifth St. received final approval last week. Developer Fifth Street Funding, which is currently transforming the nearby 1924 Arcade Building, plans to create 74 fully finished rental units, which could eventually be sold as condominiums.

Thanks for posting that pic. Although I had a general idea of the bldg being described in the article, seeing what it actually looks like helps nail it down. And it's an excellent example of how crappy signage & banners really do wreck a bldg.

Now that I think of it----& have been reminded of what we have to deal with here----when it comes to signage, if something similar to the cutesy gateway signs in DTSD really were the only thing to gripe about here in LA, we wouldn't have so much to complain about in the first place.