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  #1641  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2007, 5:13 PM
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Originally Posted by edluva View Post
am i the only person here who doesn't want dtla to become another gaslamp district? the gaslamp is vibrant and all, but don't you guys think it's a bit manufactured? it's nothing like for instance any given neighborhood of manhattan, where the hotspots are more organically distributed and reflect an ongoing evolution of the city as a whole.

the gaslamp is fun, but what real urban environment has door after door of themed restaurants with outdoor seating areas designated by city-blocks of steel perimeter fencing. it's little different from 3rd st promenade except with restaurants in place of retail, and thru-traffic. both are scripted pedestrian malls. there's something about these modern planning "successes" that make the newly gentrified downtowns really plastic. there's an irony in consciously designating retail centers and calling them "real cities" when they're almost entirely scripted. or for instance, erecting a self-conscious "little italy" gateway over a neighborhood which, like the rest of the city, is constantly evolving. what makes these any different from the caruso developments?
Amen. Gaslamp is a nice little spot for frat boys and drunk sluts.
     
     
  #1642  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2007, 5:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LosAngelesSportsFan View Post
Amen. Gaslamp is a nice little spot for frat boys and drunk sluts.
I compare Gaslamp to a giant Dave & Busters or a T.G.I. Fridays. Gaslamp is nice if not a bit souless.
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  #1643  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2007, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by LosAngelesSportsFan View Post
Amen. Gaslamp is a nice little spot for frat boys and drunk sluts.
Are you people kidding? Are we talking about the same Los Angeles? Your worried about plastic, fake, maufactured? I'll take fake plastic manufactured over a urban ghostown anyday. I hate to think what DTLA would turn out like if we continued to let DTLA "reflect an ongoing evolution of the city as a whole". Oh wait, thats where we started.
Restore the frickin buidlings and theaters but let's get some attraction down there before this place ends up like the ghost town it was a few years ago. You historic lovers have had all the time in the world to take care of downtown LA and look what you have done with it.

And to you LASF, I like the Gaslamp district myself and I am far from a frat boy or drinken slut so _ _!. Are these type of comments really necessary or helpful? We all put out our ideas and if you don't like them it doen't mean EVERYONE doesn't like them so your comments can only be taken as an insult to someone else's idea. Isn't there a moderater here?

Last edited by k3d; Aug 29, 2007 at 11:09 PM.
     
     
  #1644  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2007, 10:49 PM
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100% in agreement with edluva. also real turned off by the frat boy nature of gaslamp. my comparison was strictly aesthetic, from a city scape/landscaping point of view (should citywatch challenge me again). this is kinda how i feel about south park which as an entertainment district is massively planned, sterile and whitewashed. but hey video billboards=MEGAKEWL!!!
     
     
  #1645  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2007, 11:07 PM
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They restored the cupola to st vibiana's. i had never seen this building without it since i only got into downtown LA 8 years ago. i think it looks fantastic.

From latimes.com
     
     
  #1646  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2007, 11:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k3d View Post
Are you people kidding? Are we talking about the same Los Angeles? Your worried about plastic, fake, maufactured? I'll take fake plastic manufactured over a urban ghostown anyday. I hate to think what DTLA would turn out like if we continued to let DTLA "reflect an ongoing evolution of the city as a whole". Oh wait, thats where we started.
Restore the frickin buidlings and theaters but let's get some attraction down there before this place ends up like the ghost town it was a few years ago. You historic lovers have had all the time in the world to take care of downtown LA and look what you have done with it.

And to you LASF, I like the Gaslamp district myself and I am far from a frat boy or drinken slut so _ _!. Are these type of comments really necessary or helpful? We all put out our ideas and if you don't like them it doen't mean EVERYONE doesn't like them so your comments can only be taken as an insult to someone else's idea. Isn't there a moderater here?
take a deep breath.... ok, as i said, Gaslamp is nice, but the scope of the conversation was if we wanted Downtown LA to look like the Gaslamp, essentially a more urban grove. Most of us dont, we have higher aspirations. doesnt mean we will get there, but its what we are striving for. And you cannot deny hte huge presence of Frat Boys and Sluts, afterall, CSUSD and UCSD are very near by. Not that there is anything wrong with those sluts....
     
     
  #1647  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2007, 11:44 PM
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I think you are all wrong, Downtown LA will have slutty fratboys!

Seriously, I do agree that the Gaslamp is a bit too one sided in terms of diversity, etc. However, I think that appreciating the fact that it is clean and you do feel safe walking at night throughout the area is/are some of the features that we want for LA's Broadway (on a bigger scale). I think that LA's Broadway will become something similar to the Gaslamp area but (due to the size of LA's downtown) have more diverse areas with more interesting mini districts within the downtown area. LA cannot become San Diego, the demographics and lifestyles are much different. The surf/weather culture of San Diego along with the university crowds lends to the atmosphere of their downtown. LA will get something entirely different (you have hollywood types, surrounding Latino hoods, etc.) as the gentrification process continues.
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  #1648  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2007, 11:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LosAngelesSportsFan View Post
Amen. Gaslamp is a nice little spot for frat boys and drunk sluts.
Hey, just because we get a little loose when we drink, there is no need to call us names.

Original Quote: k3d
Quote:
Are you people kidding? Are we talking about the same Los Angeles? Your worried about plastic, fake, maufactured? I'll take fake plastic manufactured over a urban ghostown anyday. I hate to think what DTLA would turn out like if we continued to let DTLA "reflect an ongoing evolution of the city as a whole". Oh wait, thats where we started.
Restore the frickin buidlings and theaters but let's get some attraction down there before this place ends up like the ghost town it was a few years ago. You historic lovers have had all the time in the world to take care of downtown LA and look what you have done with it.

And to you LASF, I like the Gaslamp district myself and I am far from a frat boy or drinken slut so _ _!. Are these type of comments really necessary or helpful? We all put out our ideas and if you don't like them it doen't mean EVERYONE doesn't like them so your comments can only be taken as an insult to someone else's idea. Isn't there a moderater here?
I have to say I am loving this discussion about “Broadway”. Where else do you have such a glorious row of historical gems that are abandoned at 6:pm everyday? A place where so many (here on the forum have expressed) desire to go to in the evening, but there is nothing to do once you get there. Is it fabrication for the citizens to require the city to light the street and then require the building owners to clean up their property? If 7th street has been deemed restaurant row before the restaurants get there, is it manufactured, or is the labeling creating a synergy that is going to get it there.

I’m hearing Broadway needs more light, a cleaning, variety of businesses, and longer hours. I think it is ok to push for these things rather than leaving it the way it is.

Keep the discussion going, keep sharing ideas, please respect others ideas, and please stop calling us sluts names.
     
     
  #1649  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2007, 11:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k3d View Post
Restore the frickin buidlings and theaters but let's get some attraction down there before this place ends up like the ghost town it was a few years ago.
Barring any huge catastrophe, Downtown isn't going to revert to its previous self. All the projects in the pipeline, all the projects under construction, and all the projects completed in the past seven years represent too much of an investment for Downtown to just lose its momentum and backtrack.

Think these condo owners are going to just let their neighborhoods deteriorate? Think the BIDs are going to just disappear? Not gonna happen.

If anything, the progress will slow down, but considering what's going to open up in the next few months through the next year, that will be a lot to keep us going for a long while.
     
     
  #1650  
Old Posted Aug 30, 2007, 12:15 AM
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Originally Posted by RAlossi View Post
Barring any huge catastrophe, Downtown isn't going to revert to its previous self. All the projects in the pipeline, all the projects under construction, and all the projects completed in the past seven years represent too much of an investment for Downtown to just lose its momentum and backtrack.
That is really hitting the nail on the head and brings up the point why Broadway is going to change to something different than it is today. The investment that has been put into downtown wants a return on that investment. Owners that have converted their buildings are going to want buyers for their lofts and loft owners have their list of wants for a vibrant street life.
     
     
  #1651  
Old Posted Aug 30, 2007, 12:56 AM
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Will this possibly change momentum? The idea of global peak oil (www.peakoil.com) happening around 2010-2012? I'm dead serious. If it really does happen, how will it affect city development worldwide? How will it benefit or be detrimental to DTLA?

A brief video on YouTube about Global Peak Oil ($15 a gallon gas 18 months after peak oil begins).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMQd5nGEkr4


Any feedback would be appreciated...
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  #1652  
Old Posted Aug 30, 2007, 1:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LosAngelesSportsFan View Post
Not that there is anything wrong with those sluts....
Agreed! At what point did we start hating on sluts?
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  #1653  
Old Posted Aug 30, 2007, 1:04 AM
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^ Okay...who's the idiot that came up with the idea that freeways were the best answer for transportation? (FDR looks around to his staff)
     
     
  #1654  
Old Posted Aug 30, 2007, 1:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Echo Park View Post
They restored the cupola to st vibiana's. i had never seen this building without it since i only got into downtown LA 8 years ago. i think it looks fantastic.

From latimes.com
It looks complete again.
     
     
  #1655  
Old Posted Aug 30, 2007, 1:26 AM
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^^ More reason to be scared when global peak oil happens. A place like OC where cars are truly the only real choice, that's a scary thought when you think how expensive gas will be after peak oil.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wednesday, August 22, 2007

The Orange Grove: O.C. prefers more lanes to trains
Adding roadway capacity provides real traffic relief versus
mass-transit schemes.


By JERRY AMANTE
Mayor Pro Tem of Tustin, a director of the Orange County Transportation Authority


Orange County transportation leaders have a clear-eyed understanding that freeway widenings and
arterial improvements provide real traffic relief, and many officials in Los Angeles County who have
placed nearly all their eggs in one basket – transit basket – don't like the comparisons.


The Orange County Transportation Authority is completing the final couple miles of widening the
Santa Ana (Interstate 5) Freeway, all the way up to the L.A. County line, and a widening of the San
Diego (I-405) Freeway is next on the agenda. This has some L.A. leaders in an uproar because,
while they continue their decades-long practice of flushing millions in transportation tax dollars
down the drain on public transit, their constituents are increasingly noticing the difference between
the intermittent traffic on Orange County freeways and the gridlock they experience on L.A.
freeways.


There is a philosophical difference between OCTA's reputation as a road-builder – at least since the
proposed CenterLine light-right system was laid to rest several years ago – and Los Angeles'
Metropolitan Transportation Authority, which focuses its resources on subways and rail. What it
boils down to is that, in Orange County we're proud to build lanes, not trains.


Many Democrats in Sacramento were apoplectic about the governor's proposal earlier this summer
to help balance the state budget by trimming the bloated public transit budget. But while buses,
trains, monorails and subways seem like enticing transportation solutions in theory, they simply
don't pencil out. Not in terms of true traffic relief for the vast majority of commuters and certainly not
from a fiscal standpoint.


Consider this statistic: Nationwide, spending on public transit has increased seven-fold since 1960.
And what have those billions of dollars done for commuters? Not much. During that same period,
the number of public transit users has dropped by 63 percent and today less than five percent of all
Americans use public transportation.


Over the past 30 years the United States has increased road capacity by 5 percent while we have
143 percent more cars on the road today than we did in 1977. But for some reason, despite the fact
that money put into freeways is 11 times as cost-effective as money put into light rail, in most of
California roadways remain the red-headed stepchild of transportation improvements.


Earlier this summer the Reason Foundation released its 16{+t}{+h} annual report on the
Performance of State Highway Systems. In the category of "Urban Interstate Congestion,"
California ranked dead last of all 50 states. Drivers in Los Angeles spend on average 93 hours
every year sitting in traffic. That's more than two full work weeks – more than most people get to
spend on vacation every year.


It's time to fix our roads and build new ones.


Still, there are Democrats in Sacramento who are so zealous in their belief that public transit is the
only answer,
that they have even gone so far as to try to pass legislation to stop new highway
construction – even if it's hundreds of miles outside their districts.


For example, after 25 years of planning and 10 years of environmental review, the Foothill-Eastern
Transportation Corridor Agency Board, where I sit as vice chair, voted to approve the 16-mile
connection of the Foothill (241) Toll Road to the I-5, south of San Clemente. Despite the fact that
this roadway will be built without any state tax dollars because it is a public toll road, Assemblyman
Jared Huffman, a Marin County Democrat, has introduced Assembly Bill 1457 in an effort to block
this traffic relief project.


This roadway will comply with both the California Environmental Quality Act (CEQA) and the
National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA), but following the environmental process is not
Huffman's goal – killing this road project is.


Whether it is completing the toll road system or implementing Measure M, Orange County's
self-imposed half-cent sales tax that primarily goes to improving our local roadways and freeways,
Orange County will continue to forge ahead with widening its freeways and city streets and building
new roads, even if we make Los Angeles look bad by comparison.




satollparty.com
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  #1656  
Old Posted Aug 30, 2007, 1:48 AM
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Yeah, I’m going write the Mayor of Tustin and thank him for my daily 45 min. to an hour, 16 mile commute to work, while having absolutely no alternative but to drive the freeway, which isn’t on the list to be widened anytime soon.

Keep building your subway, LA, and each mile of track puts you that much ahead of the rest of your surrounding counties.
     
     
  #1657  
Old Posted Aug 30, 2007, 2:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Echo Park View Post
my comparison was strictly aesthetic, from a city scape/landscaping point of view.....this is kinda how i feel about south park which as an entertainment district is massively planned, sterile and whitewashed.

I think we both were making statements based on upward's set of photos of DTSD, so our descriptions didn't go beyond the "aesthetic". Pics also can make things look better or worse than they really are. But your gut reaction was that the shots of the gaslight dist meant that it "kicked DTLA's ass by a mile". Based on POVs like this, you're not alone.

However, i'd say you're less optimistic than I am when you implied-----though you were kind of joking----that it may take 50 yrs for DTLA to "kick ass" on DTSD. Also, in your other post where you stated DTLA's glory days are 20 to 30 yrs in the future. I'd like to think that will happen well before then.

But if you do believe that south pk will be sterile & whitewashed in upcoming yrs, & that Broadway----esp if the city maintains a hands off policy towards it----will remain not too different from, or much better than the way it is today, then I can understand why your timeline & criteria are different from mine.

I don't care about the particulars of the differences between the gaslight dist, or DTSD in general compared with DTLA or Broadway. What I care about are the things that stood out in upward's photos:

- large crowds on sidewalks at night
- many bldgs, old & new, floodlit at night,
- classic historic bldgs, in good shape, mixed in with the newer ones
- busy sidewalk cafes & shops

Remove the particulars of whether you're dealing with the gaslight dist (or the rest of DTSD), Broadway in DTLA or the shot of manhattan in chrisla's photo, & if any of them are like the following, then they're NOT going to impress most ppl:

- small or non existent crowds on sidewalks at night
- many bldgs, old & new, are dark & rarely floodlit
- classic historic bldgs, in bad shape, remain segregated from newer ones
- closed up or non existent sidewalk cafes & shops.

DTLA has a more complex cultural & economic profile (for instance, Disney Hall, or the garment dist), so that to me makes it more serious minded than San Diego----whose gateway signs like "little italy" or "gaslight" are quaint & corny, or very Second cityish.

However, I'd guess that if you randomly selected a crowd of 100 or 1000 ppl, a majority of them, esp based on mostly superficial criteria, would mark DTSD higher than DTLA, as CP&DR did. And to change that will require that we have:

- large crowds on sidewalks at night
- many bldgs, old & new, floodlit at night
- classic historic bldgs, in good shape, mixed in with the newer ones
- busy sidewalk cafes & shops
     
     
  #1658  
Old Posted Aug 30, 2007, 4:01 AM
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I agree with everything you said there citywatch which makes me wonder just how superficial our differences are. But those are mostly generalities I think we can all agree on.

The 50 years comment is a hyperbole, but I don't think the 20-30 years isn't. I think its a stretch to say the DTLA will reach a critical mass or at least fluid and continuous high traffic pedestrian along all of its streets and avenues within the next 10 years. Just the fact alone that we won't get a wilshire subway line anytime soon (thanks to our government robbing transportation funds) is indicative of how slow things will go for downtown LA.
     
     
  #1659  
Old Posted Aug 30, 2007, 4:03 AM
Echo Park Echo Park is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citywatch View Post
[/b]

- large crowds on sidewalks at night
- many bldgs, old & new, floodlit at night
- classic historic bldgs, in good shape, mixed in with the newer ones
- busy sidewalk cafes & shops
its funny though broadway actually has nearly half this formula down.
     
     
  #1660  
Old Posted Aug 30, 2007, 6:22 AM
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1027 Wilshire - Activity on Site

As I was walking over to the Daily Grill for dinner tonight, noticed something interesting going on at the 1027 Wilshire site. A small section on the north side of the lot is taped off, where a truck rig is drilling dirt out of the ground.

Last I read about this project, AMIDI Real Estate Group has all entitlements in place and they planned to start construction by 3Q 2007. I don't want to sound any false alarms, but my better judgement says this is probably construction related. What do you guys think? I'll try to snap a photo tomorrow on my way to work.

     
     
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