LOS ANGELES | Downtown Project Rundown 3.0

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by LosAngelesBeauty

Today, Old Town Pasadena is thriving and South Lake Avenue is still in the continued process of revamping its image and streets. This is something we can learn from if we apply it to DTLA.

And it was Upward's recent thread on DT San Diego that really opened my eyes & got me to thinking about the differences between the parts of DTLA that have been changed & improved through mostly newer devlpt, & then the areas like Broadway, Spring St & the OBD in general.

I know pics by themselves can make things seem better than they really are. But there's no question it would be a lot tougher to duplicate in DTLA a group of locations like the ones in DTSD that take full advantage of classic, old time bldgs:



Upward


Upward


Upward

[BrandonJXN]

Originally Posted by LosAngelesBeauty

Neither is choosing that green neon tubes should be incorporated on the side of AON, or any other visionary lighting schemes for DTLA for that matter.

I agree, we should get back on topic.

Prada and Gucci suck btw.

[Easy]

^ Don't even worry about it. DTLA is not trying to duplicate San Diego, nor should it be. The Gaslamp is cool for what it is, but I doubt that we have anything similar to that in DTLA anytime soon. We will likely never have a concentrated restaurant area like the Gaslamp or Ybor City, but DTLA is going to blow away those types of areas in terms of overall activities, variety of neighborhoods, and total population.

[k3d]

Originally Posted by Easy

It's all part of the skyscrapercityfication of this board that seems to be taking place. But in his defense the grove is so universally despised and so often ridiculed around here that it's easy to see where he thought that you were joking.

Yes, I don't even read over there anymore. Believe it or not, I have never heard that about The Grove, I'm not in love with it but it but I like it enough to go there fairly often. I really like both Ulysses the greek restaurant and The Banana Leaf at Farmer's Market. We go there because there is not a place like it downtown or we would just stay here. I am looking forward to LA Live but there may be elements about that venue that I may not like as much as a place like The Grove. Have anyone here ever ate at the table at Banana Leaf where everone sits together under the bright yellow flourescent lights? How about the patio at Ulysses?

[BrandonJXN]

Originally Posted by k3d

Yes, I don't even read over there anymore. Believe it or not, I have never heard that about The Grove, I'm not in love with it but it but I like it enough to go there fairly often. I really like both Ulysses the greek restaurant and The Banana Leaf at Farmer's Market. We go there because there is not a place like it downtown or we would just stay here. I am looking forward to LA Live but there may be elements about that venue that I may not like as much as a place like The Grove. Have anyone here ever ate at the table at Banana Leaf where everone sits together under the bright yellow flourescent lights? How about the patio at Ulysses?

I think that why so many people dislike The Grove is that it's nothing more that a suburban mall that thinks it's urban. There are a million of those all over SoCal. While I personally don't hate The Grove, I wouldn't want to see something like that downtown. Although, outdoor cafe's in downtown are rare and should be considered.

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by Easy

But in his defense the grove is so universally despised and so often ridiculed around here that it's easy to see where he thought that you were joking.

I'm not sure if that means such ppl therefore will be more likely to also despise a setting like Broadway or more likely to give it slack, if not even love it. I know the main group of customers or visitors for one isn't too similar to the customers or visitors of the other.

The grove is supposed to be a big money maker, & that's been said about Broadway too. However, I'm now hearing that Broadway may be losing some of its popularity & customers' dollars.

As for signs or billboards, I can't be too choosy about what LA Live or Hanover will be installing when several blocks to the east there's a far bigger problem, involving way more signs. I'm referring to the blight of things like "paul's electronic discount" compared with "martinez jewelry mart," which actually enhances the Palace theater. I'll take anything, LED or not, over signs like "paul's", which are all too common throughout the hood.



Jim Winstead / Ralossi's www.angelenic.com


Ralossi's www.angelenic.com

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by fridayinla

RAlossi and I went by Market Lofts this weekend to tour the models. The 50% sold number is old. I asked the sales person on Saturday, and I can't remember the exact figure, but I think they're in the 60% - 65% sold range now.

Slowly (at least compared with the time when condo projs were sold out almost overnight) but steadily they're filling up the space. It's good if the rate of sales now is moving fast enough that their proj's web site starts to understate the number of remaining units.


Meanwhile, there's a post that mentions parkfifth that should be kept in mind:

Originally Posted by Kerry Marsico

same scenario at the moment at park fifth...about 344 reservations...however... these are only $10K holds, and no guarantee they'll ever break ground...if the project is scrapped, those reservations will be refunded...

As for the medallion proj, just seeing the site it's to be built on, finally free from all the junk of a parking lot, & now showing lots of potential, is a sight that's long overdue:


viewfromaloft.com

[k3d]

Originally Posted by ThreeHundred

I think that why so many people dislike The Grove is that it's nothing more that a suburban mall that thinks it's urban. There are a million of those all over SoCal. While I personally don't hate The Grove, I wouldn't want to see something like that downtown. Although, outdoor cafe's in downtown are rare and should be considered.

Ok, an urban mall sounds good. That is what I was thinking anyway, that it would be more authentic to restore all those buildings and theaters and have restaurants, patios, lighting and music. You don't have to close the street I guess, it's just that having dinner on the patio might be a little noisy.

[Echo Park]

Originally Posted by citywatch

As for the medallion proj, just seeing the site it's to be built on, finally free from all the junk of a parking lot, & now showing lots of potential, is a sight that's long overdue:


viewfromaloft.com

i hadn't really looked at the medallion site from this angle. usually the photos of this site that show up on this forum are looking east toward the industrial district, but looking toward the obd and its renovated buildings really highlights the potential of this hood. which only makes the disappointing design of medallion even more glaring. why did they scale down the original renderings which were at least slightly daring? citywatch has been pushing this philosophy where beggars cant be choosers when it coems to DTLA development but i dont subscribe to this. surely this city can have higher expectations. doesn't the city approve of these things? i wouldn't approve of a building more appropriate in canoga park then in downtown LA (the obd of all places). i wouldn't be surprised if this ends up stucco.

[DowntownCharlieBrown]

Originally Posted by Echo Park

How can anyone like this? It's like real life version of pop up ads clutting your computer screen. I thought the huge billboards were already offensive in the hanover renderings but I took solace in the possibilty they might be LED giving a dynamic nature to Fig. But they're not even LED ugh hanover, in all its stucco and billboard plastered glory belongs in hollywood

Well, then you’re not going to like L.A. Live. It's going to be "Billboard City"

Look, I’m a big proponent of signage regulation and would not want to see anything like this in most of the city, and I would go as far as saying that I want billboards banned from most of the city. If you have ever been to Times Square and felt the energy there, then you know. Yes, its restaurants, and clubs, and theaters, and movie-houses, and great shopping that bring the masses to this intersections, but the brightly lit billboards (LED or not) light up the entire area enticing people to hang-out and enjoy being on a city street! I believe if the billboards were banned in Times Square, less people would go there and shop less, eat less, etc., etc, and that there would be a lot less of the establishments that make TS so wonderful to visit.

[Echo Park]

Originally Posted by k3d

You don't have to close the street I guess, it's just that having dinner on the patio might be a little noisy.

its not a problem on pine avenue in DT long beach where outdoor dining is popular. plus the sidewalks are wide enough for it. you can see it at the broadway bar which has decent open spaces.

[Echo Park]

Originally Posted by DowntownCharlieBrown

Well, then you’re not going to like L.A. Live. It's going to be "Billboard City"

Look, I’m a big proponent of signage regulation and would not want to see anything like this in most of the city, and I would go as far as saying that I want billboards banned from most of the city. If you have ever been to Times Square and felt the energy there, then you know. Yes, its restaurants, and clubs, and theaters, and movie-houses, and great shopping that bring the masses to this intersections, but the brightly lit billboards (LED or not) light up the entire area enticing people to hang-out and enjoy being on a city street! I believe if the billboards were banned in Times Square, less people would go there and shop less, eat less, etc., etc, and that there would be a lot less of the establishments that make TS so wonderful to visit.

It isn't the billboards that necessarily draw people to TS, its the LIGHT. The videos aren't always advertising something in Times Square. Sometimes its used to display news and information. I've already posted about my disgust for some of the overt advertising planned for LA Live, but one thing I do like are the 6 video towers in Nokia Plaza. I think this is more tasteful and innovative way of incorporating light to that project. The video walls however are just poorly designed. There should be glass windows on this wall allowing light and views to flow freely from the energy created on teh street to the observers in the building. This energy however is completey sealed off by this fortress wall of video billboards. There are more tasteful ways to advertise like vertical signage to minimize space, the kind you see in Tokyo for example. the podium displays in hollywood and highland or hanover work too.

[DowntownCharlieBrown]

Originally Posted by DowntownCharlieBrown

Yes, its restaurants, and clubs, and theaters, and movie-houses, and great shopping that bring the masses to this intersections, but the brightly lit billboards (LED or not) light up the entire area enticing people to hang-out and enjoy being on a city street!

Originally Posted by Echo Park

It isn't the billboards that necessarily draw people to TS, its the LIGHT.

Good, sounds like we're on the same page.

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by Echo Park

why did they scale down the original renderings which were at least slightly daring?

I believe it came down to economics. The devlpr was quoted as saying the original plans, which were bigger & more ambitious, no longer penciled out. I figured that meant that in order to cover the cost of devlpt & to make a decent profit, he'd have had to charge way more for rent than what most ppl would be willing to pay.

citywatch has been pushing this philosophy where beggars cant be choosers when it coems to DTLA development but i dont subscribe to this.

I'm just trying to be realistic. There's no use believing in pie in the sky when all you'll end up with is even more disappointment & impatience.

What I can't figure out is why you give so much leeway to the current raunchy condition of broadway, &, in turn, show so little optimism or patience towards new devlpt in the hood. I'd say if you balanced the two perspectives, you'd come out with a more realistic, or more workable, impression of the hood in the future.

[LosAngelesBeauty]

^ The future of Broadway is a sticky topic because of the "class issue" attached to it. There is little doubt in my mind that the very people who want Broadway to remain in its current form do not actually prefer the dirt and grim. However, talking about normal project developments like Medallion pertains to market rate housing and talking shit about people who make a lot of money is ok in liberal culture. It's hypocrisy, but nothing in the world is fair. Anyone can make little racial remarks about "whites" but the slightest implications of anything negative toward any other minority is call for retribution!

[Echo Park]

Originally Posted by citywatch

I'm just trying to be realistic. There's no use believing in pie in the sky when all you'll end up with is even more disappointment & impatience.

I think you're confusing expectations with standards. When it comes to expectations, we are most likely on the same page. We both agree the way the city runs things that its best to be patient with these projects and realize that downtown's new glory days are still 20, 30 years down the road. We both probably expect budget projects to go up around downtown like medallion, orsini, artisan etc rather than dramatic steel+glass super towers. And we both agree no project is worth getting excited over until we see a hole in the ground and concrete being poured. Standards are a differet story, and there's nothing wrong with demanding our city to start considering better design when its objective is to become a world class city. All the wood/stucco projects I mentioned is contrary to that, but there are great designs in the pipeline as well, like eighth+grand, iHope, ninth+flower, park fifth. Some developers are clueless in urban design (palmer), others get it (south, astani). The city needs to start being a little more proactive and demand a little bit better from some of the more clueless developers. re: Broadway, it only seems like i give it a lot of leeway because you guys give it so much criticism. You say its raunchy but really whats more uglier/depressing, all the deadzone parking lots + warehouses around downtown or the bustling dense thoroughfare of broadway? its the only truly urban corridor in downtown right now, so lets work on other places and allow broadway to evlolve naturally. if it is true that broadway is losing its working class clientele then lets let that change naturally instead of developers being mean spirited and giving kickbacks to corporate chains to move in. this is not just an urban issue to me, its a moral issue. i'd love tos ee broadway restored to its glory but displacing folks is wrong. new urbanism isn't everything folks.

[marc samuel]

Originally Posted by funhaus

Also noticed that the empty Frank L. Robinson warehouse has newly erected scaffolding around it. Anyone know what's planned for that property? (Flower and 12th)

I actually live next door to this. My place is in your photo actually. I hear them in the morning (at 7:00am) but don't know what's going on. Can anyone tell us what's happening here? Are they making something new? Anything is better than an unused and very tagged empty building.

[Echo Park]

you should walk next door and ask

[fridayinla]

^Agreed. Get the scoop for us!

[LongBeachUrbanist]

In defense of The Grove (an audible *gasp* rises from the crowd)...

Yes, The Grove is an artificial environment that is isolated from the real city. But it's plain to see that certain things about the Grove work. I think it makes sense for Downtown planners to see which things can be applied to DTLA, rather than simply throwing stones at The Grove.

What works: bright and colorful lighting, clean and well-designed signage, trash cans, benches/seating, greenery, a security patrol, well-lit storefronts.

Where in DTLA has all of this been implemented, at least to some extent? Let's see: Little Tokyo, and the OBD. Also, in front of the new Ralphs. A couple of other places, but that's about it. Is it a coincidence that these are generally considered Downtown's 'success stories'?

Take one more look at citywatch's pic of San Diego's Gaslamp:



Compare to the current state of Broadway:



Where would you rather spend your free time?

It's not a mystery how to make a place that people want to go to. Developers like Caruso (of The Grove) have figured it out. But somehow these simple truths still elude Downtown's planners, developers and conservationists, who seem to believe that cleaning up the gargoyles fifty feet above Broadway is more important than improving the street-level experience.