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  #1381  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2007, 11:35 PM
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Is the rendering on the 21c site accurate, it doesn't look 580', and the building to the West looks at least 2/3 it's height ,if I'm correct that building is 20 ish floors and 220 ish feet.
     
     
  #1382  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2007, 4:28 AM
crewer crewer is offline
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Originally Posted by Strayone View Post
Is the rendering on the 21c site accurate, it doesn't look 580', and the building to the West looks at least 2/3 it's height ,if I'm correct that building is 20 ish floors and 220 ish feet.
Are you sure you aren't getting 21c mixed up with Block 21? It's been posted on the first page of this forum at 580', and the rendering looks to be about that height. The website says it's 44 stories.
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  #1383  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2007, 4:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Strayone View Post
Is the rendering on the 21c site accurate, it doesn't look 580', and the building to the West looks at least 2/3 it's height ,if I'm correct that building is 20 ish floors and 220 ish feet.
301 Congress is 22 stories, 306' tall.
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  #1384  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2007, 4:41 AM
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the structure on auditorium shores is for the redbull flugtag... was a ton of fun last time it was in town
     
     
  #1385  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2007, 8:45 AM
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Some photos from last weekend

Just got around to looking at them. It was a very hazy morning last Saturday, not the best conditions for taking photos. And hotter than hell!


Legacy@Town Lake. Well under way. I wonder if they'll change the name to Legacy@Lady Bird Lake.




A quickly (and badly) done panorama of the Spring site:




Goodwill site:




Construction above Lady Bird Lake. Is that name change official now?




What years of swimming in Town Lake will do to you:




Monarch:





     
     
  #1386  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2007, 9:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strayone View Post
Is the rendering on the 21c site accurate, it doesn't look 580', and the building to the West looks at least 2/3 it's height ,if I'm correct that building is 20 ish floors and 220 ish feet.
The building to the west is 301 Congress. It is 306 feet tall to the angled glass roof and 287 feet to the mainroof. It has 22 floors.

EDIT: Oh, I see Goldenboot already mentioned it. I got that height from the building managers.
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  #1387  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2007, 12:03 PM
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The Monarch is really a handsome building. I definitely prefer the balconies over 360's. They look a lot more "secure" and inviting. I don't know how much I would enjoy sitting out on one of 360's small balconies that's 40 stories up and open on three sides.

By the way, what is that building on the Goodwill site? Condos? Apartments? And is it possible that they could have built it any closer to the railroad tracks? Pity the residents facing south, especially if train horns are blasting at 2 in the morning and the ground is shaking.
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Last edited by crewer; Aug 17, 2007 at 12:36 PM.
     
     
  #1388  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2007, 3:05 PM
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Well as if Austin needed more problems from the good ole' Perez Sisters:

____________________________________________________________

AUSTIN
Las Manitas rejects city loan
Perez sisters say proposal is too restrictive
Listen to this article or download audio file.Click-2-Listen

By Sarah Coppola
AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF
Friday, August 17, 2007

The owners of the Las Manitas restaurant have changed their minds and rejected a $750,000 partially forgivable city loan to move up the block, just a few weeks before they were supposed to sign the loan paperwork.

Sisters Lidia and Cynthia Perez said in a three-page statement Thursday that the loan proposal, which the City Council approved in June amid widespread community criticism, "has become way too complicated and caught up in controversy, politics and misunderstandings."

Jay Janner
AMERICAN-STATESMAN
(enlarge photo)

Cynthia Perez, left, and Lidia Perez want to keep Las Manitas open, their attorney said, but they don't know how they will pay for renovation costs, estimated at $844,000 to $1.13 million. They won't apply for other city loan programs, Amon Burton said, and are wary of a bank loan that large.

Jay Janner
AMERICAN-STATESMAN
(enlarge photo)

Lidia and Cynthia Perez say they never asked the city for a loan or grant, and had no part in writing guidelines for the Business Retention and Enhancement Program. The mayor says that's true.

MORE ON THIS STORY
.

* Las Manitas lawyer discusses decision to reject loan
* Statement by the Las Manitas Avenue Cafe owners
* Tell us: What do you think of the Perez sisters' decision to not take the City of Austin's loan?

The sisters' decision could put a downtown Marriott hotel project, which is expected to generate 600 jobs and $7 million a year in tax revenue, in jeopardy. The hotel developer, White Lodging Services Corp., needs the sisters to agree to let it build over an alley they own behind the block.

The loan was supposed to be contingent on the sisters allowing White Lodging to use that alley.

But now White Lodging and the Perez sisters will have to go back to the bargaining table and negotiate again.

The sisters said they were not happy with terms and conditions that were added to the loan, including a provision that tied the forgivability of the loan to the completed construction of the Marriott hotel complex.

That project would displace Las Manitas from the restaurant's current location, 211 Congress Ave.

"We concluded that trying to operate a small business under (the proposed loan terms) is not practical or consistent with how we have successfully run our business for over two decades. We feel we would lose a lot of our independence. And that isn't an acceptable option," the sisters said in the statement.

The council approved the loan to help the sisters move into and renovate 227 Congress Ave., a building the sisters own up the block from their current location.

It was part of a loan program designed to help small, local businesses stay open during large-scale development in the area.

Richard Suttle, a lawyer representing White Lodging, said the company would be willing to keep talking but probably won't offer the sisters more money than it already has for them to move and for use of the alley.

The sisters' lease at 211 Congress Ave. expired in December, but they've continued to operate there pending the finalization of the city loan.

The Perez sisters want to keep Las Manitas open but haven't determined where they will get the money for the renovation costs, estimated at $844,000 to $1.13 million, said Amon Burton, a lawyer who has been representing the sisters.

They will not apply for other city loan programs and they are also "not comfortable, from a business standpoint," with taking out a bank loan that large, he said.

The sisters declined to be interviewed Thursday.

Earlier this year, residents flooded City Council offices with calls and e-mails to denounce the loan's size and forgivability, and to suggest that the eatery got favorable treatment because politicians like to eat there. Burton said the controversy was a factor in the sisters' decision, but, "They are not angry. They are not bitter. This just didn't work out. It wasn't in the best interest of their business," he said.

Mayor Will Wynn, a proponent of the loan, said the loan's terms were tough, but reasonable and necessary for proper oversight. He said he is concerned that the sisters' decision could imperil the future of Las Manitas and the Marriott.

"I didn't mind the heat we got for voting for the loan," he said. "The real issue was whether we were going to have both of these projects or neither. I would be really disappointed if, nine months after this began, we start back at ground zero (on the negotiations) and these projects don't happen."

Council Member Jennifer Kim said the city should not step in again to try to resolve any conflict between the sisters and the developer.

"As far as I'm concerned, I'm done," she said. "We gave them our offer and took a lot of hits for it."

The initial loan proposal would have required the sisters to pay back the loan for only five years. If the sisters met certain conditions, such as retaining employees, the city would have forgiven the balance after the fifth year.

But Council Member Mike Martinez recommended a provision, which the City Council approved, that would have required the sisters to pay back a prorated portion of the balance if they closed or sold the business between the fifth and twentieth year of the loan.

That provision made sense, Martinez said, because it ensured that the Perezes would no longer benefit if they violated the basic goal of the program: to retain businesses along Congress Avenue.

That provision extended the city's lien on the sisters' 227 Congress building through the 20th year, putting them in jeopardy of losing that valuable downtown property if, for some reason, they could not continue operating the business for two decades, Burton said.

The city added other terms and conditions that were too restrictive after the council approved the loan proposal, Burton said.

For example, the loan would have been forgiven immediately after the first five years only if White Lodging finished building the hotel during that time, but the sisters would have had no control over that construction schedule, he said.

That provision was included because the fees from developers that would support the loan program could be collected only if the Marriott was actually built, Martinez said.

Another intrusive reporting requirement, Burton said, would have required the sisters to notify the city if any of their key employees became seriously ill.

Assistant City Manager Laura Huffman said Thursday that was not a condition of the loan.

The sisters wrote in their statement Thursday that White Lodging initially offered them $72,000 to relocate after the developer first proposed the Marriott project last summer. But that amount would have covered only about 10 percent of the relocation and building costs, the sisters said. The negotiations reached an impasse in December.

That month, Burton got a call from one of the hotel developers, saying an arrangement had been worked out to resolve the stalemate. Burton said Wynn had told him the city would create the Business Retention and Enhancement Program to help retain small businesses along Congress Avenue.

The fund would be financed by development fees from new projects that displaced small businesses.

The sisters said they never asked the city for a loan or grant, and they played no role in writing the loan program's guidelines. Wynn said that is true.

The initial loan proposal seemed like a creative way to resolve development conflicts, the sisters said, because the money they paid off during the first five years would go back into the loan fund to help other small businesses.

But when they received the loan terms this summer, they said, they were troubled by new terms and conditions that had never been discussed with them.

"What appeared in December and this spring as a win-win for the City, for the developers, for a locally owned business, and Congress Avenue looks very different today," they said.

Linda Smith, a Dripping Springs resident whose husband's band often plays at the restaurant said Friday, "I would hate to see it close.

"Maybe they could get an investor to help pay for it. They had good expansion plans, and I would encourage them to look at every possibility and not give up."

Other questions have been raised about the loan since it was approved.

Public records show that Paul Hilgers, the city's community development director who manages most of the city's business-loan programs, concluded in May that the loan for the Perez sisters should be lower, should not be forgiven and should be supplemented with a bank loan or private funding, which the sisters had not sought.

But Economic Growth director Sue Edwards never showed that analysis to City Council members because she said the loan proposal met guidelines the council already had approved.

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  #1389  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2007, 3:54 PM
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Originally Posted by StoOgE View Post
the structure on auditorium shores is for the redbull flugtag... was a ton of fun last time it was in town
YES! TONS OF FUN!!!!!

Great day to roam around downtown!
     
     
  #1390  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2007, 4:01 PM
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Originally Posted by crewer View Post
The Monarch is really a handsome building. I definitely prefer the balconies over 360's. They look a lot more "secure" and inviting. I don't know how much I would enjoy sitting out on one of 360's small balconies that's 40 stories up and open on three sides.

By the way, what is that building on the Goodwill site? Condos? Apartments? And is it possible that they could have built it any closer to the railroad tracks? Pity the residents facing south, especially if train horns are blasting at 2 in the morning and the ground is shaking.
OH man I agree about balconies. 40 stories up and hanging out in space...not so sure. I agree that balconies that are built into a buiding feel more "scure".

Goodwill site = subarban apartments built next to a railroad track. Read: generic plan attached to the facade of the old Goodwill building pretending to be cool urban lofts. Can you tell I don't like the looks of that project? Just checking.
     
     
  #1391  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2007, 7:52 PM
andrew.A..T..X andrew.A..T..X is offline
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About the Las Manitas thing, how tall was that Marriot hotel suppose to be anyway? Are there any renderings of it yet? Wonder what they ment by "restrictions"...They must've been pretty big ones to turn down a $750,000 forgivable loan. Damn
     
     
  #1392  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2007, 8:27 PM
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You know what, the developer and the city has bent over backwards to accomodate them, they can just go away now.. any sympathy I might have had for them (which wasnt much) is now completely gone.

If you dont own the land your business is on, you dont have a "right" to renew your lease until the end of time.

This is akin to someone renting a house getting mad when the owner decides they want to sell the house once the lease is up and refusing to move.

To be honest, I'm glad they rejected it because I thought it was stupid for the city to give such a loan out
     
     
  #1393  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2007, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by StoOgE View Post
You know what, the developer and the city has bent over backwards to accomodate them, they can just go away now.. any sympathy I might have had for them (which wasnt much) is now completely gone.

If you dont own the land your business is on, you dont have a "right" to renew your lease until the end of time.

This is akin to someone renting a house getting mad when the owner decides they want to sell the house once the lease is up and refusing to move.

To be honest, I'm glad they rejected it because I thought it was stupid for the city to give such a loan out
It was interesting to read their point of view on the op/ed page today. Read it and see what you think. I never realized part of why the city was working with them was so they would approve the rights to the alley.... didn't know that was a major part of the deal. So they actually do own something the the developers need. Seems like they could make their own bargain.

For once I think Kim is right.... the city has done what it could do... stay out of it.
     
     
  #1394  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2007, 10:49 PM
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/\/\/\/\ I believe Brewster McCracken said he voted no on the $750,000 bribe. He said that he believed that White Lodging didn't need the Perez sister's permission to build over the alley in the first place. That was the reason for this whole Las Manitas farce. To me, it looks like the Perez sisters were trying to use the alley to extort the city or White Lodging for what ever they thought they could get away with.
     
     
  #1395  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2007, 3:02 AM
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Originally Posted by crewer View Post
Are you sure you aren't getting 21c mixed up with Block 21? It's been posted on the first page of this forum at 580', and the rendering looks to be about that height. The website says it's 44 stories.
No I meant 21c, in this rendition it looks like 301 congress is nearly 3/4 the height it might be the angle but it doesn't seem like 580'. Oh well it is fast becoming one of my favorite future buildings.
     
     
  #1396  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2007, 3:16 AM
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Part of the story from the AAS - Earlier this year, residents flooded City Council offices with calls and e-mails to denounce the loan's size and forgivability, and to suggest that the eatery got favorable treatment because politicians like to eat there. Burton said the controversy was a factor in the sisters' decision, but, "They are not angry. They are not bitter. This just didn't work out. It wasn't in the best interest of their business," he said.
It looks like Burton has both sides just where he wants them! This should have been a slam dunk. The sisters are either thrilled by the prospect of an even better offer that their Lawyer is probably promising or else they're about to pull their hair out.
     
     
  #1397  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2007, 4:35 AM
andrew.A..T..X andrew.A..T..X is offline
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Originally Posted by StoOgE View Post

This is akin to someone renting a house getting mad when the owner decides they want to sell the house once the lease is up and refusing to move.
Yeah, and then the city comes and tells you they will give you a shitload of money to move down the damn street, and so all the other home owners in the area will be pissed just as the resturaunts downtown were. But i still don't understand why they rejected it, thats about as good as a deal you can get. Controversy? Why would they give a shit? its not their fault the city gave them a stupid ass loan that worked out in their favor.
     
     
  #1398  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2007, 6:07 AM
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/\/\/\/\ I believe Brewster McCracken said he voted no on the $750,000 bribe. He said that he believed that White Lodging didn't need the Perez sister's permission to build over the alley in the first place. That was the reason for this whole Las Manitas farce. To me, it looks like the Perez sisters were trying to use the alley to extort the city or White Lodging for what ever they thought they could get away with.
Got it.... that is an interesting part that I missed. From everything in their statement and the article in the paper it looks as though While Lodging does need their permission. Do you know any source that can confirm one way or another?
     
     
  #1399  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2007, 6:17 AM
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Yeah, and then the city comes and tells you they will give you a shitload of money to move down the damn street, and so all the other home owners in the area will be pissed just as the resturaunts downtown were. But i still don't understand why they rejected it, thats about as good as a deal you can get. Controversy? Why would they give a shit? its not their fault the city gave them a stupid ass loan that worked out in their favor.
Actually there were two things the city put in smartly, to make sure the loan served it's purpose. One, that if thier business failed the city would end up with a lein against thier porperty. So if the business failed they could lose it and the building. The other is that the loan became dependent on White actually completing the building since part (don't remeber how much) of the money for the loan would be coming from fees the city received from Whiting. No building. No fees. No funds. So it is possible they could get into the move and then not have all the funds. I am truly not defending them or the city here..... just been reading all the articles today to try to figure this out.

I think the were smart to get out of it...... There was so much ill will around the whole situation. We'll see what they are really up to soon enought. Mind you they could still be the spoiler if it is true White Lodging ( I still love the irony in that name) needs their permission to build over the alley. Does anyone know if that could stop the project or is White in a position to just build over the alley and not deal with them ( the sisters)?
     
     
  #1400  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2007, 1:10 PM
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OH man I agree about balconies. 40 stories up and hanging out in space...not so sure. I agree that balconies that are built into a buiding feel more "scure".

Goodwill site = subarban apartments built next to a railroad track. Read: generic plan attached to the facade of the old Goodwill building pretending to be cool urban lofts. Can you tell I don't like the looks of that project? Just checking.
I totally agree to both of those comments. Imagine sitting out on your balcony with a few beers in you, although I suppose 360 folks might prefer wine over beer. I'd want to feel secure on my balcony if I was a little buzzed. Besides that, nevermind trying to sit out there during a thunderstorm or just rain as you'd be right out in the elements, plus during the day it must be hot as hell out there. I love the balconies on The Monarch. Looks like an actual living space. One that you could enjoy with a few potted plants.

As for the Goodwill site, I totally agree with that comment. If they had kept the old building and turned it into residential, now that would truly have been hip, cool and urban and not cheap. I always thought that little tower on the building's southeast corner was cool. I wonder if it would have been large enough for some type of community viewing space? Lol, too late now though I guess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andrew.A..T..X
About the Las Manitas thing, how tall was that Marriot hotel suppose to be anyway? Are there any renderings of it yet?
The taller building will be along Brazos, and will be 34 floors. The 2nd shorter one will be along Congress and will have 11 floors. There's a rendering of the project on the 2nd post of this thread. Go to page one to see it. However, that design is old, it maybe similar to their current plans. They've also canceled a 15-story tower in the project.
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Last edited by KevinFromTexas; Aug 18, 2007 at 1:36 PM.
     
     
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