Salt Lake:Official development news thread

[Viperlord]

they were good pics though SLC projects.... just of the wrong area of town. hehe...

[arkhitektor]

Originally Posted by SLC Projects

Huh? You hate Sandy because of the traffic? Hate to bust your bubble but there's traffic everywhere in every city. Even downtown Salt Lake City there's 600 South and 500 South. Even when it's not rush hour those streets are busy. And what about 400 West near the gateway and ESA? traffic there too, even with a trax line. And the fact that you were in the area Friday evening. Where can one go on a Friday night that will not be busy?
What is it with all you anti Sandy people that think Sandy has the worst traffic? There's road construction everywhere in every city. It's called growth.
Why is Sandy such a BAD city just because they have the land, and the South valley growth and the hot market? Don't tell me your one of those people who thinks EVERYTHING should be build in downtown Salt Lake City. If EVERY condo or townhome and EVERY Class-A Office building was build in downtown then think about how BAD traffic will be with EVERYONE from the South end of the valley having to drive all the way up north to downtown.
No I'm glad Sandy is building some of these projects so that way people who live down on the South end of the valley will not have to drive as far.
No I don't think Sandy is the "New Downtown" as they tend to call them selfs. But I think the city is to the point now that they have to start building "UP" just for the fact that the city is running out of land and that the city can't grow "OUT" anymore.
I don't think these projects are LAME. I for one like the Mix use "Gateway" kind of project. I'm only sorry that it can't be taller. If anything with all the Office buildings that are getting built right now in that area there needs to be housing projects in this area as well. And that's what the "Centennial Park Plaza" is all about. And that is bring people to the area so they will not have to drive far to work.
And I do not agree with that in 10-15 years Sandy will be washed up and dead as the areas around Valley Fair. I don't know if you been to South Towne Mall lately, but unlike the other DIEING malls all over the valley South Towne has been the only Mall to still least out most of their space and it still remains to this day one of the busies malls around. It doesn't need to be tear down, remodel, redesign or anything. Same will go with all the new projects just north of the mall.
Sure Sandy has along ways to go, but don't hate a city for growing up.

First of all.... I'm probably just bitter about Sandy because I spent the better part of a full damn hour getting from Jordan Commons to the freeway at 106th South on Friday. But....

I still think that there is a lot wrong with Sandy.

People always say that traffic is bad in Sandy because it actually is. I have lived downtown and never saw traffic as bad as in Sandy except maybe right after a Jazz game or conference session. Downtown, there is a major street every 1/8 of a mile. In Sandy, there are only a few major through steets and they are all miles apart. I'm happy to see more dense development in Sandy, but nothing is being done to improve traffic or accessibility in the area. Trying to create a faux urban environment on suburban infrastructure will never work, which is why I don't think that the mixed-use development that is planned will work as well as it could somewhere else.

I'm as big a fan of mixed-use development as you'll find, but you can't just throw one in anywhere and expect it to work. Unless it's in a densified area like downtown, where there are a number of other places worth walking to nearby, or directly on a transit line where people can easily commute to work from, it wont turn out to be the utopian community that many invision.

Most of these types of developments have renderings with quaint cafes, neighborhood grocery stores, floral shops and the like, but most that I've seen in S. Salt Lake, West Valley City, even the one on N. Temple just E. of I-15 have little more in their storefronts than Insurance agencies, cheap nail salons, payday loan centers and "For Lease" signs. My guess is that the people that buy these things drive to do all of their shopping and entertainment and enjoy far less of the walkable lifestyle than we see in these pre-construction renderings.

Lastly, Southtowne Mall is less deserted than others in the Valley because its the newest mall in the Valley. Give it 10 years. 15 or so years ago enclosed malls like Cottonwood were booming and the wave of the future, and now, except for a few that were really designed well, they are desolate, poorly received and largely being razed and replaced with open-air, mixed use developments. My point is that unless the mixed use replacements are designed right and actually function as intended in practical use, we'll be tearing them all down in another 15-20 years as well.

[JCarp]

What is Sandy doing that SLC currently is not. Sure there are things going up in SLC, but all these projects within walking distance of each other almost puts downtown SLC to shame.

(Now to open the can of worms...) I wonder if Mayor Rocky has indirectly dissuaded development by constantly standing in the way of one of the biggest property developers in the state, namely the LDS Church (Main Street Plaza, CCC Sky Bridge), and pushing for a more “non-LDS” downtown nightlife? I believe his attitude might have turned other developers, who also happen to be LDS, into other parts of the valley just so they will not get the same treatment due to their religious affiliation? Known LDS developers might be thinking twice before trying to wrangle their project through Salt Lake City Hall and instead take the path of lease resistance… Sandy.

Just a thought. Please feel free to now tear this theory to sheds (if you can ).

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by JCarp

What is Sandy doing that SLC currently is not. Sure there are things going up in SLC, but all these projects within walking distance of each other almost puts downtown SLC to shame.

(Now to open the can of worms...) I wonder if Mayor Rocky has indirectly dissuaded development by constantly standing in the way of one of the biggest property developers in the state, namely the LDS Church (Main Street Plaza, CCC Sky Bridge), and pushing for a more “non-LDS” downtown nightlife? I believe his attitude might have turned other developers, who also happen to be LDS, into other parts of the valley just so they will not get the same treatment due to their religious affiliation? Known LDS developers might be thinking twice before trying to wrangle their project through Salt Lake City Hall and instead take the path of lease resistance… Sandy.

Just a thought. Please feel free to now tear this theory to sheds (if you can ).

Uh, it's basic economics. It's a lot cheaper to build these projects in the suburbs than it is to build them in downtown Salt Lake City. This, coupled with the fact that there isn't nearly as much space downtown, should be a no-brainer.

I know it's fashionable for some to blame Rocky for everything, but c'mon, use your head. Every suburb to every major city sees this type of growth, it's what happens. Why? Because it's far cheaper to build a project in the suburbs than it is to build that exact same project in downtown Salt Lake -- or most places in Salt Lake for that matter.

As for all these types of projects going up in Salt Lake and the fact they're not centralized together, well it's simple if you think about it. Salt Lake is far more developed than Sandy and has been for years. The population center of Salt Lake is mostly east of I-80 and no residents live west of I-215. It's not like there is a ton of land to build centralized suburban development in Salt Lake. Where would they put it? Out by the airport? Well let's be serious here, if you've driven out west, there is a bunch of development like this going up there. I just don't see people posting the photos because, well, it's still bland, suburban development.

[delts145]

SLC Projects, I agree with a lot of things you said about Sandy, Like you, I also like this Centennial Park project.

Sandy has a centralized car mall for the most part and thats it. The situation on State between So. Salt Lake and Murray is far worse. Sandy also has quite a few of the most beautiful homes and neigborhoods in the Valley on its East side. The street improvements and beautifications that are being made right now, and that have been made over the last ten years in Sandy are very impressive.

The Sandy I see now is MUCH improved over the Sandy I knew as a kid. Sandy is definately headed in the right direction.

[JCarp]

Thanks for the reply Comrade, all good points. Maybe I am just looking for a scapegoat and Rock is an easy target. However, I still believe that his underlying antagonism for all things LDS does not help SLC grow in a state full of Mormons.

[Comrade]

You sighted two sources as his underlying antagonism. But hasn't Rocky pretty much supported the City Creek development from day one? Yeah he opposes the sky bridge, but it isn't like he's the only one. Ralph Becker, a candidate for mayor, also opposes the bridge.

As for the LDS Plaza, that was an issue created by former mayor Deedee Corradini and the fact Salt Lake rushed into it without having an open debate on the issue. In the end, Mayor Anderson joined the LDS Church in its plans for the plaza and in fact worked with the LDS Church, Alliance for Unity and Jim Sorenson to propose what we have today (http://www.slcgov.com/mayor/plaza/mayoroped.htm).

It's clear Rocky won't see eye to eye with the LDS Church on everything. However I don't think Rocky has been constantly berating the LDS Church since he took office in 2000.

[delts145]

Utah tops in job growth
56,800 non farm jobs added in a year is best in U.S., report says

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,695200861,00.html

It may sound like a broken record, but Utah's job growth nonetheless is topping the charts...

Utah continues to top U.S. for employment growth

http://www.sltrib.com/business/ci_6625537

...Utah created 56,800 jobs in the year that ended in July, for an employment growth rate of 4.7 percent, up from 4.5 percent for the year that ended in June, the Utah Department of Workforce Services reported.
Arizona is a distant second to Utah, with job growth of 3.2 percent. The national average? A paltry 1.3 percent, by comparison, down from 1.4 percent in June...

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[delts145]

Salt Lake City Metro - Tooele

Landmark school becoming luxury condos

http://www.tooeletranscript.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=23284&Itemid=54

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[Future Mayor]

I agree with you Comrade. While Rocky is often times combative with the LDS church I think that despite his political views he has worked fairly well with the church. As mentioned Rocky isn't the only one opposing the SkyBridge while still supporting CCC, most city planners and other individuals with planning backgrounds SLC oppose the SkyBridge, I am not attempting to recreate the SkyBridge discussion.

If Sandy continues it's current growth in residential and commercial, especially in the city center/South Towne area, the South Towne mall that we now know will be completely redesigned in the next 20 years in order to fit into the new fabric of a substaintially more urban setting.

I myself would love to see all the development in downtown and while it doesn't seem as if these other developments are helping downtown they will in the long run. Metropolitan areas must have a vibrant downtown as their core, as mentioned in the article regarding boomers moving to cities, downtowns are the cultural, civic, and economic engine that makes a Metro area thrive. Had the two DT malls been in almost any other city they would have been left to decline and go vacant or be occupied by a few off brand dollar stores and cheap clothing stores simply to fill the available space. The LDS church will never allow SLC to go dark, as is evident with CCC. I am amazed at the number of large cities that have no department stores in their downtown core or as barely hanging onto one. Salt Lake City will have 3, that is nearly unheard of except in very large cities such as NY, Chicago, SF etc. I currently live in a city with a population well over 400,000, with many corporate headquarters and the city can't support one downtown mall, let alone three as SLC will have once CCC is complete.

With the LDS churchs firm grip on the north end of the city and it's determination to present a good product surrounding the Temple and chuch head quarters. The effect will only be positive for the city as the growth continues through out downtown.

While "downtown" Sandy is getting several new office building, residential and mixed use projects. Consider the fact that according to a quick count I did recently in the CCC thread Salt Lake has nearly 1000 new residential units under construction or proposed for the the next 5-8 years. No matter how many 5 story office buildings Sandy builds it won't be urban and it won't compete with Salt Lake City until it has a core of residents in it's "Downtown"

With the job growth and the unwavering economy in Utah, DT Salt Lake is still the center of the state, and will continue as such.

Sorry if I ramble, by the time I finish typing and a bunch of new thoughts surface I actually wonder if I make any sense at all sometimes.

[SLCforme]

I agree that Sandy is booming (I actually took a trax ride down there yesterday), but I also agree that it will never (read not in the forseable furture) have a vibrant urban downtown. It just doesn't have the infrastructure and density, and most of the current developments have much too large a footprint for what they are to increase density significantly.
The project that I'm happiest about is the condo development right next to the 10000 S. trax station (a TOD). This is the kind of development that really shines in the suburbs because it's designed to decrease dependance on the auto even though it's out in the burbs.
As a side note, the TODs at the 3900 S. and 4500 S. trax stations are UC as well.

[delts145]

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

...If Sandy continues it's current growth in residential and commercial, especially in the city center/South Towne area, the South Towne mall that we now know will be completely redesigned in the next 20 years in order to fit into the new fabric of a substaintially more urban setting.

I myself would love to see all the development in downtown and while it doesn't seem as if these other developments are helping downtown they will in the long run...

...Had the two DT malls been in almost any other city they would have been left to decline and go vacant or be occupied by a few off brand dollar stores and cheap clothing stores simply to fill the available space. The LDS church will never allow SLC to go dark, as is evident with CCC. I am amazed at the number of large cities that have no department stores in their downtown core or as barely hanging onto one. Salt Lake City will have 3, that is nearly unheard of except in very large cities such as NY, Chicago, SF etc. I currently live in a city with a population well over 400,000, with many corporate headquarters and the city can't support one downtown mall, let alone three as SLC will have once CCC is complete.

With the LDS churchs firm grip on the north end of the city and it's determination to present a good product surrounding the Temple and church head quarters. The effect will only be positive for the city as the growth continues through out downtown.

... Consider the fact that according to a quick count I did recently in the CCC thread Salt Lake has nearly 1000 new residential units under construction or proposed for the the next 5-8 years. No matter how many 5 story office buildings Sandy builds it won't be urban and it won't compete with Salt Lake City until it has a core of residents in it's "Downtown"

With the job growth and the unwavering economy in Utah, DT Salt Lake is still the center of the state, and will continue as such.

Sorry if I ramble, by the time I finish typing and a bunch of new thoughts surface I actually wonder if I make any sense at all sometimes.

Just some really excellent points Future Mayor. Your's and the comments of many on this forum make it a pleasure to continually check in.

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[PhxSprawler]

Originally Posted by JCarp

Thanks for the reply Comrade, all good points. Maybe I am just looking for a scapegoat and Rock is an easy target. However, I still believe that his underlying antagonism for all things LDS does not help SLC grow in a state full of Mormons.

I think you are just reading too much into it. Suburbs around the country are working to make their towns flourish. Every city wants a piece of the pie, and must encourage employment in the city to sustain itself. Sandy has a chance of evolving into a suburban core. It may not happen in the near future, but someday, the city may cover the parking lots with buildings or parks. I don't think you could point to a growing metropolitan area that doesn't have similar growth in its suburbs.

Regarding the Mormon comment, I believe there are a lot of Mormons who love urban life and appreciate a vibrant city core, but in general, Mormons get married and have children. Unless you have a lot of money, it is not conducive to live in a city with children. Single people, young couples, and wealthy appreciate the city lifestyle. I think Rocky is justified in trying to diversify downtown SLC to attract residents and growth, and I don't believe he has an issue with the LDS church; he just doesn't want the church to control the entire city. He is justified in fighting to keep bars and clubs downtown.

[Future Mayor]

Originally Posted by delts145

Just some really excellent points Future Mayor. Your's and the comments of many on this forum make it a pleasure to continually check in.

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Thank you for the compliment. I try to put as much thought into my comments as possible combining my personal opinions, and education on the subject to try to come across as with good points rather than simply bash on others.

I appreciate your comments and insites as well as most of the comments and insites on this forum. There are a few that time after time make lame comments but then again the forum wouldn't be nearly as interesting with out those lame 🞵🞵🞵 comments.

[SLC Projects]

Originally Posted by SLCforme

I agree that Sandy is booming (I actually took a trax ride down there yesterday), but I also agree that it will never (read not in the forseable furture) have a vibrant urban downtown. It just doesn't have the infrastructure and density, and most of the current developments have much too large a footprint for what they are to increase density significantly.
The project that I'm happiest about is the condo development right next to the 10000 S. trax station (a TOD). This is the kind of development that really shines in the suburbs because it's designed to decrease dependance on the auto even though it's out in the burbs.
As a side note, the TODs at the 3900 S. and 4500 S. trax stations are UC as well.

I forgot all about those new condos getting built up by the Jordan High School. Those seem nice. But I never been up there to get a good look.

I do agree that Sandy will never be a downtown like Salt Lake City.
But I am hoping for Sandy to go more Urban and less suburbs with their projects.

[Urbano]

We saw the elevations for what the granite block might look like in Sugarhouse, but I just saw for the first time the flyer that has a site plan and more detailed elevations (I don't remember it being posted, but could be wrong). This link will take you to the pdf version of the flyer:

http://www.redmountainretailgroup.com/cms/pdf/Sugarhouse%20Flyer.pdf

Anything on this side of the block will be a huge improvement. I like how they have kept part of the Granite Furniture sign like they said they would. It is the other side of the block I'm worried about. We haven't heard much and it is looking more deserted everyday.

[delts145]

Cityscapes: Salt Lake downtown is typical American but also unique

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,695201133,00.html

[delts145]

Parleys project under way

http://www.sltrib.com/slc/ci_6640643


...According to the coalition, the trail, which will be the first east-west transportation corridor in Salt Lake Valley aimed at biking and jogging, will connect fragments along the way and ultimately be a 10-foot wide paved trail flanked by trees, grass and shrubbery. Proponents say it will be an alternative transportation route through the heavy urban area for those using non-motorized travel.

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[Future Mayor]

Originally Posted by Urbano

We saw the elevations for what the granite block might look like in Sugarhouse, but I just saw for the first time the flyer that has a site plan and more detailed elevations (I don't remember it being posted, but could be wrong). This link will take you to the pdf version of the flyer:

http://www.redmountainretailgroup.com/cms/pdf/Sugarhouse%20Flyer.pdf

Anything on this side of the block will be a huge improvement. I like how they have kept part of the Granite Furniture sign like they said they would. It is the other side of the block I'm worried about. We haven't heard much and it is looking more deserted everyday.

Thank you for the pdf it looks like it will be a nice development I just wish the east side of the block would be able to remain the same and keep the character that has made Sugarhouse what it is.

I question the developers as a whole though and wonder if the entire project will get off the ground. I don't know anything about them just the fact that some of the facts in the pdf were slightly, rather extremely off.

It's really interesting to me that the area was officially established in 1832 and named after the sugar mill that was being established. Does anyone else find that intriquing. I had no idea that a sugar factory was being establisheed 15 years before the pioneers entered that valley. Now that is truly thinking ahead. I guess that makes me wonder what others things they might have embelished on in the brochure. I can see getting a date wrong here and there, but to miss it by 15 years, come on! We're only reminded of it every July 24 when we celebrate the DAYS OF 47!

[Urbano]

I didn't really read it, but that makes me wonder as well. I think the "history" of the area is just filler and they couldn't care less whether it is correct or not. But when developers promise to maintain a certain character and then can't even check some obvious dates to make sure they are correct, it does make you wonder how committed they really are.