Millennium Line - Evergreen Extension | Completed

[officedweller]

Today's vote key to Evergreen's future
Coquitlam NOW
Published: Friday, July 20, 2007

Will today's Greater Vancouver Regional District vote be the final nail in the coffin of the Evergreen Line? The GVRD is scheduled to decide whether to spend $1 million on a feasibility study to examine the merits of extending the Millennium Line from Commercial Drive towards the University of B.C.

More rapid transit is never a bad thing, but it's unlikely the GVRD will OK a $1-million expenditure for a study on a project that won't go ahead.

Here's why this matters to Tri-Cities residents: If the Millennium Line extension does go ahead, it will probably require infusions of cash from the provincial and federal governments. There's only so much money available from the province and the feds for rapid transit, and the more high-profile Millennium Line is sure to jump to the head of the queue, leaving the Evergreen Line nothing more than a pile of reports collecting dust on a shelf.

Judging by the letters to the editor we receive here on the subject, that wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing.

Most people who write in say the Evergreen Line is not right for the Tri-Cities, that we need SkyTrain, not light-rail transit -- which is slower and would require passengers to transfer at Lougheed Station.

Local politicians have a different view, at least publicly. Believing the Evergreen Line is all the Tri-Cities will get, many of them back it. Better something than nothing, seems to be the prevailing attitude.

We disagree. Although we desperately need rapid transit in the Tri-Cities, with a future extension across the Pitt River, we also need to be connected to the system that's most widely used in the Lower Mainland, which is SkyTrain.

A slower version is not acceptable and it would be a mistake to build one, since doing so would mean we'll never get the elevated system that will likely be extended throughout the Lower Mainland and Fraser Valley.

So if the GVRD votes today to approve the $1 million Millennium Line feasibility study, it could mean bad news for the Tri-Cities in the short term, but a better transit system down the road.

*************
GVRD vote could affect Evergreen Line
John Kurucz, Coquitlam NOW
Published: Friday, July 20, 2007

Much ado about nothing.

That's how Mike Clay, Port Moody's acting mayor, characterized the relative uproar over Vancouver Mayor Sam Sullivan's backing of a $1-million feasibility study to extend the Millennium SkyTrain Line from Commercial Drive toward UBC.

The Greater Vancouver Regional District (GVRD) board will vote on the study today (Friday), and critics of the proposal -- most notably Burnaby Mayor Derek Corrigan -- have said the study is undermining the process of getting the Evergreen Line up and running.

It's not something I'm concerned about personally," Clay said. "The two have nothing to do with one another. There's nothing nefarious going on at all."

Clay said he's been in contact with TransLink chair Malcolm Brodie several times over the last few days and was assured that the feasibility study will have no effect on the fate of the Evergreen Line.

"There's no insinuation there at all that money will be taken from the Evergreen Line (for this study) -- if it was then I would be freaking out," Clay said.

"This is just a preliminary step for something that will happen down the road."

With a projected cost of $970 million, the proposed light rail system for the Tri-Cities has been in the works for close to 10 years, but still faces a $400-million funding shortfall.

To date, TransLink has committed $400 million to the project, while the province has pledged $170 million after 2010. Mayors from throughout the northeast sector have repeatedly called on both the province and the federal government to provide the remainder of the funds.

"As soon as that money comes across the table, the axe will hit the ground," Clay said.

Earlier this year, Brodie issued a funding ultimatum to senior levels of government stating that efforts to build the line would be scrapped by April if the remaining funds were not found.

Brodie had previously said the prospect of entering into a public-private funding partnership -- much like the model used in the building of the Canada Line -- is unlikely due to the unwillingness of the private sector to jump on board.

The proposed Evergreen Line would serve the area between Lougheed mall and Coquitlam's Town Centre, and is projected to be the equivalent of an eight-lane roadway along the Clarke Road-St. Johns Street-Pinetree Way corridor in terms of people-moving capacity.

If built, the line is projected to convert 1.9 million annual car trips to transit shortly after its establishment.

That number is projected to balloon to 3.6 million converted trips by 2021.

Critics of the proposed line, however, have taken issue with the fact that it would be slower in terms of travel time than a SkyTrain route.

Late Thursday afternoon, TransLink issued a news release stating that the Evergreen Line "is not 'on the shelf' as has been reported by some news media."

"The light rail transit system for the northeast sector is the number one rapid transit priority for TransLink," Brodie said in the release.

"We have defined the project, and now we are waiting for funding to be confirmed from senior levels of government."

"The business case prepared last year by TransLink staff proves that the Evergreen Line is vital for maintaining and enhancing the quality of life in the northeast sector," Brodie said.

"The Broadway alternatives study is something completely different and must not be seen as a case of one part of the region 'jumping the queue' over another."

[The_Henry_Man]

^I hope the vote will destroy the current Evergreen Line as it stands. Right from the get go, the LRT does not suit the conditions (geographical, etc) at all for Tri-Cities, no matter how hard the LRT wannabes try to copy the European style LRT routes. Simply doesn't work because many European LRT systems are capillaries to the veins/arteries of subways and commuter rail, something that the Evergreen Line doesn't have.

I hope Corrigan is defeated in the next Municipal election. And if the vote for M-line extension falls through, I might reconsider whether I should vote for Brodie in the next Municipal election (I voted for him last time).

And come on!! $1 million feasibility study is CHEAP compared to almost $1 billion Evergreen LRT line ONLY, which is a total waste of money given its technology.

[Lee_Haber8]

Personally I think they should go ahead with the Millenium Line extension first since current bus ridership shows that it is badly needed (60000 riders per day). The ridership on the 97 B-Line at only 6000 riders per day shows that there is not as much precedence for building rapid transit there. However, I still believe that both projects are important and with creative financing techniques could both be done simultaneously.

I'm getting sick of all the knee jerk anti-LRT sentiment on these threads. I haven't seen a proper comparison of the pros and cons of both light-rail and Skytrain. The two most important things that a rapid transit system must do is provide a compelling and convenient alternative to the automobile and promote pedestrian-friendly development around stations. Both skytrain and light-rail have accomplished both these goals in many applications worldwide.

One of the big arguments for Skytrain is that there would be no transfer at Lougheed and that service for the Millenium Line would be doubled, which would become more important as line is extended to UBC and more frequent service would be needed. The counter argument is that with more advanced signalling, frequency on the Millenium line could be as high as every 90 seconds without doubled service which should easily satisfy future demands.

Skytrain is also faster than light-rail, though a lot of the perception is because skytrain stations are usually spaced much further apart. If plans for Skytrain had the same spacing as the planned Evergreen Line there would indeed be time savings, but they would not be that great as Skytrain would not have much opportunity to be at top speed. Stations could be removed, but that comes with the risk of making the system less convenient and accessible.

The big advantage light-rail has is that it integrates well into the urban fabric, is very quiet and accessible. It is much more difficult to integrate an elevated skytrain line without damaging the community. The unsightly elevated structure can be hidden with buildings (Main St.- Science World station), but this usually isn't done. Skytrain is also quite noisy due to the linear-induction technology. All these problems would go away if it were buried, but then the line would cost over 2 billion. Light rail is much more accessible and visible with stations at street-level and can make the street more pedestrian-friendly. This of course limits the speed of light-rail, but cars would be slowed down as well so that they aren't going any faster. Going along the Vancouver City Planning Department's principles the first goal is to serve pedestrians, then cyclists and then transit. If people in Coquitlam want to get to Downtown Vancouver quickly, that's what the West Coast Express is for, though the current level of service is unacceptable.

There are a lot of strong arguments for both Skytrain and light-rail. In conclusion I would say the best options for the Northeast would be an improved Evergreen Line that is fully prioritized or a Skytrain Line that is underground through Port Moody.

[deasine]

I don't really like going with the northeast sector much. Port Moody is already against SkyTrain going thru their backyards. Then might as well go with the southeast option. Despite the se option not reaching as many residents, if properly planned such as having bus routes go to the stations itself, it can do... And then SkyTrain on the southeast option would link many businesses too along Hwy 1...

There will be much more possiblities of expansion with SkyTrain technology rather than LRT. Now if you are arguing about why Vancouver should have LRT, it's a complete different story since we already have SkyTrain Rapid Transit and more is being planned (m-line extension). I would say for LARGE growing communities, SkyTrain is better. But for smaller communities that already have a fair amount of people living in it, LRT is better.

[Mininari]

If anyone lives in port moody here, go tell him what you think:


PoMo councillor polling for Evergreen opinions

By Janis Warren The Tri-City News

Aug 05 2007

Dismayed at citizens’ confusion over the Evergreen Line, a Port Moody city councillor has posted an online survey to gauge the community’s views on the $970-million light rail transit (LRT) project.

Last month, Coun. Mike Clay posted the questionnaire on his website (www.mikeclay.ca) to gain feedback on residents’ preferred technology and alignment from Lougheed Town Centre to Douglas College in Coquitlam.

The 11.2-kilometre, 12-station light-rail line is expected to be built by 2011 via Burquitlam and Port Moody, although there is currently a $400-million funding gap.

Clay told The Tri-City News he has spoken with many people about the LRT project and many have concerns about the costs and tunnelling through Clarke Road Hill. As well, several residents are still holding out hope the government will change the technology to SkyTrain, he said.

In his survey, which is not scientific, Clay poses 35 questions split into six categories: awareness, technology, routing, cost and funding, P3s and personal information.

Some of his questions include:

• What do you see as the primary goal of mass transit in the Tri-Cities?

• Who will the Evergreen Line serve?

• What is your preferred choice of technology for the Tri-Cities transit service?

• Do you feel it is important to serve Burquitlam area with any northeast sector mass transit system? and

• Do you think mass transit in the northeast sector is worth $1 billion investment of tax dollars?

Clay said if he gets substantial feedback, he’ll pass on survey results to his council colleagues and city staff.

TransLink, the regional transportation agency responsible for building Evergreen, last gauged the public’s views on the project in October 2006.

Partnerships BC is now reviewing TransLink’s business plan on behalf of B.C.’s Ministry of Transportation and Highways to see whether the LRT project would suit a public-private partnership.

A decision from Transportation Minister Kevin Falcon Evergreen is expected this fall.

[The_Henry_Man]

^Thanks for the link. I just finished and submitted the questionnaire. I hope everyone will fill one too. There needs to be a more massive protest and petition against the LRT option for Evergreen Line, and finally, a politician from the NIMBY Port Moody is brave enough to go against Mayor Trasolini.

[deasine]

I dun live in the Tri-cities but I entered the questionaire anyway. It's really important for the politicans and urban planners to be aware that LRT is not the way to go in that region

[mr.x]

^ same. i wrote quite a bit in the comment boxes.

[raggedy13]

Questionnaire complete!

[Lee_Haber8]

For all the skytrain proponents out there - I was wondering how you would plan on integrating it into Port Moody's urban fabric? I can't see it working well if it is still elevated going through St. John's St.

The only two solutions I can really think of are:

1) Completely underground through Port Moody

or

2) Elevated or at grade along CP rail line

Which option do you think is the best? (Avoiding PM is not an option)

[twoNeurons]

elevated through St. john's Street set at a lower scale like Richmond.

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by tintinium

elevated through St. john's Street set at a lower scale like Richmond.

Yup. Just like No.3 Road, there's nothing special about St. John's Street.

[The_Henry_Man]

Originally Posted by Lee_Haber8

For all the skytrain proponents out there - I was wondering how you would plan on integrating it into Port Moody's urban fabric? I can't see it working well if it is still elevated going through St. John's St.

The only two solutions I can really think of are:

1) Completely underground through Port Moody

or

2) Elevated or at grade along CP rail line

Which option do you think is the best? (Avoiding PM is not an option)

In my opinion, what Mayor Trasolini said about how unique and special the town/village-like feeling in St. John's St area is simply an overstatement. It's just a political ploy to make it LRT. The last time I went through St. John's St around 2 months ago, it's not THAT special and unique. Most of it is just single houses, churches, and a few shops here and there, and some car (Lexus/Toyota) dealerships (well, that doesn't really integrate well into the town fabric anyway). Just east of that, it's mostly business parks and industrial areas. Heck, the area doesn't even come close to the Steveston Harbour in terms of town/village-like feel, and that place is a major tourist attraction. Port Moody's village-like special feel in St. John's area is highly overrated.

As for Skytrain through Port Moody, both options are good. I must say the guideway along the CPR tracks is the best option. It satisfies NIMBY's requirement of not wanting "ugly" concrete pylons in their city. Also, it can establish excellent interchange between the future Moody Station and its WCE counterpart. It can encourage density residential development in its vicinity adjacent to the historical part of Port Moody in St. John's St without being encroached. The downside is that sharing the ROW along the CPR track area maybe quite expensive compared to the elevated option along St. John's St.

As for elevated option along St. John's St, the guideway can be built on the east side of it, with plantations along the pylons, similar to No.3 Rd in Richmond.

Underground through Port Moody is too expensive in my opinion, given the tight budget Translink has for the Evergreen Line.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Lee_Haber8

For all the skytrain proponents out there - I was wondering how you would plan on integrating it into Port Moody's urban fabric?

The Skytrain PMC Line was planned to run along the CPR right of way.
I think it was going to be at-grade for most of the downtown Port Moody stretch - which wouldn't be as visiually intrusive - but would create a physical barrier to the waterfront (moreso than the CPR tracks) unless overpasses were built.

I think I have a printout of the PMC Line allignment at home (yes, they were quite advanced into the planning stages) - I'll see if I can scan it.

[The_Henry_Man]

Just wondering, is it actually physically (and financially) possible if Skytrain Evergreen Line is built, part of the M-Line from Columbia to Lougheed Town Centre Stn be re-routed to be part of the Evergreen Line (so the line would be from Columbia to Coq Centre instead)?

Here's my thought: An extra elevated guideway can be built north as the Evergreen Line from the existing M-Line. A new station box is then constructed, with elevated walking connected between M-Line and Ev-Line. The existing guideway of M-Line that swings west eventually going back west can serve as extra rail tracks that allow cars to be transported between M-Line, E-Line and Ev-line as demands needed, and have the option of cars to go to Edmonds area OMC or the one proposed to be near Port Moody-Coq.

[twoNeurons]

not sure I get what you're proposing.

you mean run north from braid?

question is... why? the Expo line is going to be at capacity far sooner than the M-line would be... and the Evergreen line would fill in the capacity on the M-line nicely.

[The_Henry_Man]

^Like, the current M-Line running from Columbia Stn to Braid, then keeps going, over the Hwy 1, until getting very close to Lougheed Town Centre. Just as the guideway swings west to the station and over North Rd, new guideway will be built (as part of the elevated segment of Ev-Line to Coq Centre) at that moment that goes north via North Rd, and instead of trains swinging west to the current M-Line like now, the Ev-Line trains will keep going north approximately over North Road to a new Station interchange (Lougheed Town Centre on Evergree Line), but with an elevated corridor close enough for a short walk physically connecting between M-Line and Ev-Line Lougheed Stations. Now, with Columbia (Expo-Evergreen Interchange), Sapperton and Braid stations, they will be considered to be Evergreen Line stations.

Advantage is that the future frequency of M-Line trains can be greatly increased when demands increase through the Evergreen Line because it doesn't need to share the guideway with the E-Line trains anymore. Also, it eliminates two transfers when Coq residents wants to go to Surrey via Skytrain.

[twoNeurons]

If frequency is the only advantage... then it can be accomplished by adding trains to PMC portion of the line. you'd have M-line and PMC on the current M-line guideway from Lougheed west.

The only area with lower frequencies would be braid and sapperton... both which I don't see as large volume stations.

Although reducing transfers for Coquitlam residents to Surrey is good... you'd be making residents choose between two routes (have to wait for a train) and it would be more confusing. Get on the wrong train to go to Vancouver and you have two transfers anyhow.

if I understand what you mean, you'd essentially have a PMC-expo route and a PMC-M-line route.

It doesn't seem feasible to me.

fwiw, the M-line was originally going to cross the freeway and go west down lougheed. (Braid station would've been located in Maillardville as Maillardville station) but Coquitlam didn't want it and got snubbed as the current route was cheaper anyway.

[Mininari]

Originally Posted by The_Henry_Man

In my opinion, what Mayor Trasolini said about how unique and special the town/village-like feeling in St. John's St area is simply an overstatement. It's just a political ploy to make it LRT. The last time I went through St. John's St around 2 months ago, it's not THAT special and unique. Most of it is just single houses, churches, and a few shops here and there, and some car (Lexus/Toyota) dealerships (well, that doesn't really integrate well into the town fabric anyway). Just east of that, it's mostly business parks and industrial areas. Heck, the area doesn't even come close to the Steveston Harbour in terms of town/village-like feel, and that place is a major tourist attraction. Port Moody's village-like special feel in St. John's area is highly overrated.

I couldn't agree more!
This constant portrayal of Port Moody as having a small-town/village-like feeling along St. Johns Street is completely false. Your description of St. Johns street is apt, and indicates it is nothing more than a typical suburban "strip." There isn't much of a pedestrian atmosphere anywhere along St. Johns Street -- it would take some majorly aggressive rezoning to even being to achieve this, and the NIMBYS already have fussed over building heights and proposed densities (re: the Brickyards height fiasco, the Barnet Hotel redevelopment). Lets not forget the heavy traffic along St. Johns... This traffic is *not* going to decrease with *ANY* rapid transit system in place(save maybe the sudden expiry of world oil reserves?).

Trasolini is my favourite hypocrit in the lower mainland. He (and other Port Moody Councilors) constantly cite the preservation of a small-town feel in Port Moody as paramount, and use it to shoot down the "ugly, intrusive, crime-ridden, Skytrain" yet they continue to approve new condo towers and increase density in the New Port area. Granted, they are obligated to take on additional population through the LRSP. The very nature of the LRSP mandate for Port Moody conflicts with any notion that it will remain a small town!

With burgeoning demand and housing prices, increasing density is an absolute necessity in every community. However, shooting down a superior form of rapid transit technology because it destroys something that's, frankly, already destroyed... is pure hogwash.

Y'know, considering that a number of people voted against 'skytrain' (since that was how it was worded on the referendum), maybe this indicates the demand simply isn't there in Port Moody for rapid transit through the city.
The people who ARE willing to use transit are already driving to the Pomo WCE station and parking there. They're not going to give up their cushy ride on the WCE. Having said this, I think running skytrain along the Lougheed Corridor would serve the demand out of Coquitlam Town Centre, provide a faster ride, and could better serve Poco, future growth along the Fraser River, and the inevitable redevelopment of the Riverview Lands.

There is still going to need to be some sort of B-Line 97'ish route to service Glenayre residents... so just continue the same route with maybe a lower frequency... that will service Glenayre, and Port Moody town centre.

Agh, I'm wasting too much time on this.

[deasine]

I'm a little confused on what you are trying to say, but I'm guessing it is not the best option we have. If I am correct, you are trying to say that the SkyTrain goes from Columbia to Coquitlam Centre via Lougheed station? Maybe some sort of diagram or a map will do nice please =)

But anything is better than our current LRT plan.

------------------------------

Now I would say that residents DO want the Rapid Transit, actually many do. But then the city of port moody just doesn't want the concrete guideway above their heads. Everyone else wants SkyTrain though (see poll results). Should it be the NE Sector, I would say going above the tracks is the best solution to keep everyone happy. If not, then I think TransLink should start looking at the SE option. If the bus routes are properly planned, people would use the line despite it being in a more 'remote' area.