Hartsfield Jackson Atlanta International Airport

[Lexy]

Originally Posted by smurf

I think you may be overestimating the importantance of BNA to most of us in the CHA area. Since you can't even fly to BNA from CHA, you wouldn't be losing too many people. Everyone here knows if you want to go somewhere and you don't want to drive, you connect to ATL, hence why the flights are booked usually. I've also been connected through Cincinnati (CVG), but that is less common. I recently went to Kansas City, it was: CHA -> ATL -> MCI -> ATL -> CHA. You can see where I would stand to lose a lot if BNA got all mad and took the ball and went home.

BNA is a cheaper airport to fly domestically from than ATL and we all pretty much know that. That is where I am coming from. I seriously think you would be surprised at how many people from Hamilton County make the easier drive up here to catch a flight. It's just plain easier and for that fact alone, many Chattanoogans use this airport. Granted we don't have near as many connection possiblities as ATL, but BNA gets you where you need to go fairly easily and cheaply I might add without all the hassle that IS ATL. That's not to say they don't utilize ATL because I would be full of crap to say they don't. But you have to think about the territories that are between the two cities as well, not just the urban conglomerations. Those people fly too and this would undoubtly have an affect on them. Now, as for flights between BNA and CHA, their not needed as the distance between the two is sufficent to drive and far cheaper to do so. It has been tried and it didn't work before.

The article I read said Mullis was from TN, so my bad on that.

[shanthemanatl]

Originally Posted by Lexy

BNA is a cheaper airport to fly domestically from than ATL and we all pretty much know that. That is where I am coming from. I seriously think you would be surprised at how many people from Hamilton County make the easier drive up here to catch a flight. It's just plain easier and for that fact alone, many Chattanoogans use this airport. Granted we don't have near as many connection possiblities as ATL, but BNA gets you where you need to go fairly easily and cheaply I might add without all the hassle that IS ATL. That's not to say they don't utilize ATL because I would be full of crap to say they don't. But you have to think about the territories that are between the two cities as well, not just the urban conglomerations. Those people fly too and this would undoubtly have an affect on them. Now, as for flights between BNA and CHA, their not needed as the distance between the two is sufficent to drive and far cheaper to do so. It has been tried and it didn't work before.

The article I read said Mullis was from TN, so my bad on that.

Does anybody know if there are any stats out there that would back up the claim that it's generally cheaper to fly domestically from Nashville as opposed to Atlanta?

I guess I'm one of those people that didn't "know that". I usually assume that greater competition and volume results in a better value to the customer....

[Buckley]

Is the proposal that the state of GA would pay (or help pay) for an expanded airport in Chattanooga? If so, while this may be appealing to the state senator in Chickamauga, GA, (even if he is the head of the transportation committee) there's no way it's ever going to happen. Can you imagine legislators in middle and south GA agreeing to foot this bill while cities like Macon, Columbus, and Augusta are left with relatively small, underutilized facilities? As far as a rapid rail, maglev, or whatever, you can forget that too. No way GA's present leadership will jump on that. They refuse to seriously consider commuter rail in metro ATL, even as the city chokes to death in traffic. No way are they going to pony up the bucks to build or even just to operate such a system all the way to the state border.

A much more useful and politically palatable plan would be to build a new airport in NE GA such as in Jackson, Barrow, or Morgan counties. Build the northern arc from I75 down to I20, passing by the airport site. That plan would be useful and popular.

[Lexy]

Originally Posted by shanthemanatl

Does anybody know if there are any stats out there that would back up the claim that it's generally cheaper to fly domestically from Nashville as opposed to Atlanta?

I guess I'm one of those people that didn't "know that". I usually assume that greater competition and volume results in a better value to the customer....

Two words.....Southwest Airlines. There are some flights that would be cheaper from ATL, but the vast majority of same destination flights are, for the most part, cheaper because of Southwest here in Nashville. Delta has little in the way of competition from the other air carriers domestically from ATL on non-stop flights. So no, I don't think it can be completely "nailed" down that one city is cheaper than the other. Just select flights and then the average across the board on equal flights and non-stop destinations can be measured. I suppose you could do an "average air fare" of each airport.

[daharris80]

Originally Posted by Lexy

Two words.....Southwest Airlines. There are some flights that would be cheaper from ATL, but the vast majority of same destination flights are, for the most part, cheaper because of Southwest here in Nashville. Delta has little in the way of competition from the other air carriers domestically from ATL on non-stop flights. So no, I don't think it can be completely "nailed" down that one city is cheaper than the other. Just select flights and then the average across the board on equal flights and non-stop destinations can be measured. I suppose you could do an "average air fare" of each airport.

You have no idea what you are talking about. If Delta had no competition on non-stop flights from ATL they wouldn't have had to go through Bankruptcy protection last year. For a reality check on competition just check out Airtran's Route Map from ATL:

[smurf]

Originally Posted by Lexy

BNA is a cheaper airport to fly domestically from than ATL and we all pretty much know that. That is where I am coming from. I seriously think you would be surprised at how many people from Hamilton County make the easier drive up here to catch a flight. It's just plain easier and for that fact alone, many Chattanoogans use this airport. Granted we don't have near as many connection possiblities as ATL, but BNA gets you where you need to go fairly easily and cheaply I might add without all the hassle that IS ATL. That's not to say they don't utilize ATL because I would be full of crap to say they don't. But you have to think about the territories that are between the two cities as well, not just the urban conglomerations. Those people fly too and this would undoubtly have an affect on them. Now, as for flights between BNA and CHA, their not needed as the distance between the two is sufficent to drive and far cheaper to do so. It has been tried and it didn't work before.

The article I read said Mullis was from TN, so my bad on that.

While I don't deny people from Hamilton Co. probably go to BNA to fly, I'd say the vast majority go to ATL. For one, if I'm gonna drive, I might as well go to ATL, that lowers the chance than I have to make a connection somewhere. Lets just use a quick travelocity example. Lets say I want to go to LAX (why, I don't know, but for the sake of arguement). I can fly from CHA to LAX with 1 stop for $480, changing at CVG and taking 6h27m. Or, I can drive 2 hours to BNA, change planes in DFW, pay $390 and take 6h5m. Then when I get back, I get to drive 2 hours back home, and I'm always so energetic when I get off a plane [/sarcasm]. But wait, if i wanted to change planes in DFW, I could go straight there from CHA... Hmm..

[Lexy]

Originally Posted by daharris80

You have no idea what you are talking about. If Delta had no competition on non-stop flights from ATL they wouldn't have had to go through Bankruptcy protection last year. For a reality check on competition just check out Airtran's Route Map from ATL:

Actually, I do know what I am talking about. The bankruptcy was a result of years and years of debt that caught up with them after 9-11-01. Compound the downturn in the airline industry following and it was only a matter of time. Common sense is the fact that Delta is one of the most irresponsible airlines in the industry when it comes to money. Period. If they were more smarter with their spending habits a bit more "modern", the bankruptcy could've possibly been avoided. Just like their counterparts at AA did in Dallas. But regardless, they are out and that's a good thing for Atlanta and everyone else that gets force fed through that place on DL.


What I am talking about is direct competition, which Airtran is the only REAL competition for them at ATL. Everyone else, sans a few, are just ATL-Hub flights. Airtran isn't even a major blip on the DL radar on a national scale. DL makes it's money from trans-oceanic flights, not flights to Omaha. DL eats Airtrans lunch on frequency and domestic destinations on a daily basis so your point about them being a force against DL is moot at best.


Smurf-
You can fly direct to LAX from BNA on either Southwest or American without making a stop anywhere. Also, Delta is a one stop hop from BNA to LAX as well. But I see your point, but you can't deny the fact that both airports (ATL and BNA) have daily shuttles running from CHA multiple times a day. There is obviously a need there.


I haven't come in here with an attitude, so I expect the same from the Atlantians in here.

[Lexy]

On a side note fellas:

I don't think the CHA airport idea is going to "fly". But, what I do think is this starts up the talk about a new airport in the northern suburbs of ATL. This gets the conversations going a bit more and sparks some more intrest. There may be a parallel reasoning behind this idea about CHA that many have denied or not thought of here. Just a thought.

[Dragonheart8588]

Originally Posted by Lexy

Actually, I do know what I am talking about. The bankruptcy was a result of years and years of debt that caught up with them after 9-11-01. Compound the downturn in the airline industry following and it was only a matter of time. Common sense is the fact that Delta is one of the most irresponsible airlines in the industry when it comes to money. Period. If they were more smarter with their spending habits a bit more "modern", the bankruptcy could've possibly been avoided. Just like their counterparts at AA did in Dallas. But regardless, they are out and that's a good thing for Atlanta and everyone else that gets force fed through that place on DL.


What I am talking about is direct competition, which Airtran is the only REAL competition for them at ATL. Everyone else, sans a few, are just ATL-Hub flights. Airtran isn't even a major blip on the DL radar on a national scale. DL makes it's money from trans-oceanic flights, not flights to Omaha. DL eats Airtrans lunch on frequency and domestic destinations on a daily basis so your point about them being a force against DL is moot at best.


Smurf-
You can fly direct to LAX from BNA on either Southwest or American without making a stop anywhere. Also, Delta is a one stop hop from BNA to LAX as well. But I see your point, but you can't deny the fact that both airports (ATL and BNA) have daily shuttles running from CHA multiple times a day. There is obviously a need there.


I haven't come in here with an attitude, so I expect the same from the Atlantians in here.

I wouldn't pass any negative judgment on Delta for their mediocre management if I were you because STrek777 will give you an earful (or is it an eyeful?) with his/her book length response. Read my & Strek777 response on pg. 15 & 16. It's actually quite amusing.

[Lexy]

Originally Posted by Dragonheart8588

I wouldn't pass any negative judgment on Delta for their mediocre management if I were you because STrek777 will give you an earful (or is it an eyeful?) with his/her book length response.

Oh i'm not. I think it's pretty much common knowledge that DL was poorly run. That's one reason why they have four different liveries on their airplanes right now. Personally, I like DL alot (minus the fact they still INSIST that everyone set foot in ATL). But I think their managment could've been better earlier on. But hey, that's what the restructuring was for and it seems to have worked just a bit. I'll give them the beneift of the doubt here. LOL!

[Dragonheart8588]

Originally Posted by Lexy

Oh i'm not. I think it's pretty much common knowledge that DL was poorly run. That's one reason why they have four different liveries on their airplanes right now. Personally, I like DL alot (minus the fact they still INSIST that everyone set foot in ATL). But I think their managment could've been better earlier on. But hey, that's what the restructuring was for and it seems to have worked just a bit. I'll give them the beneift of the doubt here. LOL!

I mean I want to like Delta, if I was treated at least one time with decency when I pay for their service (seriously, I don't have that high of expectation). I hope this restructuring will do them some good and I'll will proudly support their company.

[daharris80]

Originally Posted by Lexy

Actually, I do know what I am talking about. The bankruptcy was a result of years and years of debt that caught up with them after 9-11-01. Compound the downturn in the airline industry following and it was only a matter of time. Common sense is the fact that Delta is one of the most irresponsible airlines in the industry when it comes to money. Period. If they were more smarter with their spending habits a bit more "modern", the bankruptcy could've possibly been avoided. Just like their counterparts at AA did in Dallas. But regardless, they are out and that's a good thing for Atlanta and everyone else that gets force fed through that place on DL.


What I am talking about is direct competition, which Airtran is the only REAL competition for them at ATL. Everyone else, sans a few, are just ATL-Hub flights. Airtran isn't even a major blip on the DL radar on a national scale. DL makes it's money from trans-oceanic flights, not flights to Omaha. DL eats Airtrans lunch on frequency and domestic destinations on a daily basis so your point about them being a force against DL is moot at best.


Smurf-
You can fly direct to LAX from BNA on either Southwest or American without making a stop anywhere. Also, Delta is a one stop hop from BNA to LAX as well. But I see your point, but you can't deny the fact that both airports (ATL and BNA) have daily shuttles running from CHA multiple times a day. There is obviously a need there.


I haven't come in here with an attitude, so I expect the same from the Atlantians in here.

Considering that Airtran flies to more cities direct from ATL than all the airlines combined fly to direct out of BNA, I would think you would have to consider Airtran a threat. As to your reasons for Bankruptcy, you are right that there were a multitude of causes, but I belief Delta survived through all of those problems and even the downturn in traffic after 9/11 fine until they had to compete with a second airline making ATL a hub.

On CHA as a second airport for ATL, I agree with you that it is ridiculous. Who in the world is going to jump on a train, assuming they build one, to go to TN to fly to Chicago, that's absurd. The cost of building a train to Chattanooga would fund the majority of a second airport in Atlanta.

[atlantaguy]

Drangonheart, I just flew Delta out to LAX and back, and everything about the entire experience was great.

Lexy, you underestimate AirTran big time. They have around 225 daily departures from here, and believe me when I tell you - they ARE direct competition for Delta. They fly into all of Delta's big money making domestic markets from here: LaGuardia, DC National, Boston, Chicago Midway, all of the Florida cities, Dallas/Ft. Worth, LAX, San Francisco, Denver, etc.

I know in the past you have called them a crap airline, made allusions to Valuejet, etc., though I have noticed you have toned this down lately. In my opinion, they work in the Atlanta market better than Southwest would for 3 big reasons: Advance seat assignments with boarding passes, Business Class for a very reasonable upgrade fee and XM Radio at every seat. Southwest offers none of this, and Atlanta travelers are pretty demanding and have come to rely on these "frills", so there actually is a lot of brand loyalty here with them. In every way domestically, they give Delta a run for their money.

Re: your remarks about Delta, I really don't think you have a full handle on them either. Some of your remarks are just way too "out there". One big reason for their trip to Bankruptcy was a guy named Leo Mullin. Ever heard of him?

[akiatl261]

Totally agree. Leo Mullin and his inepitude of running an airline is what caused DL to go to bankruptcy. Also his inability to respond quick enough to the changing landscape of aviation as well as capitalizing on the very strong assets he had. Ie 777's to long haul routes 767-300 to europe 767-400er's reconfigured to international standards to be used on longer routes which they have the legs for.

I think Chattanoogans probably use Hartesfield particularly for International flights. Some may use Nashville for the southwest flights but the sheer volume of flights and options I think they choose atlanta.
The whole its so difficult to navigate ATL or ohhh its terrible is crazy. I think if you are astute and familiarize yourself with the airport its not that bad. Ie using the T-gate security checkpoint instead of the main checkpoint and connecting to the transit mall from the T-gates, Going to the E-concourse to wait for your flights because its a hell of alot more peaceful there for most of the day plus there are good resturants there. Little things like that make the experience more pleasing.

[john3eblover]

Hey...what do you know? I flew Delta from BWI to Birmingham last week, via Atlanta of course...it was a great experience! There is a noticeable difference between Delta and other carriers like US Airways and United. The service was great, the flights were on time (mostly) and connecting through Atlanta was awesome as always. They didn't even lose my bags! Something US Airways can't seem to figure out.

I'm flying on United next week from IAD to STL....i look forward to comparing that experience. But Dulles is always a huge pain, that airport is a complete mess. People really don't realize how good ATL is until you travel every few weeks all over the country. Few airports can even come close to comparing.

[jmcgoblue]

Originally Posted by john3eblover

Hey...what do you know? I flew Delta from BWI to Birmingham last week, via Atlanta of course...it was a great experience! There is a noticeable difference between Delta and other carriers like US Airways and United. The service was great, the flights were on time (mostly) and connecting through Atlanta was awesome as always. They didn't even lose my bags! Something US Airways can't seem to figure out.

I'm flying on United next week from IAD to STL....i look forward to comparing that experience. But Dulles is always a huge pain, that airport is a complete mess. People really don't realize how good ATL is until you travel every few weeks all over the country. Few airports can even come close to comparing.

Delta is much better now than they were a few years ago. 3 1/2 years ago I had a red-eye from LAX to ATL with my (then) 18 month old son. While my son was sleeping in my lap I asked a flight attendant for a bottle of water. She told me (in a rude tone) that I could go to the back of the plane and take the water myself! And no, she was not busy as far as I could tell. I refused to fly Delta for nearly three years after that...which wasn't easy considering I live in Atlanta. I finally gave up my boycott, and in the past year I've flown with them several times...I have to say the crew has been quite friendly every time.

[Lexy]

Originally Posted by atlantaguy

Drangonheart, I just flew Delta out to LAX and back, and everything about the entire experience was great.

Lexy, you underestimate AirTran big time. They have around 225 daily departures from here, and believe me when I tell you - they ARE direct competition for Delta. They fly into all of Delta's big money making domestic markets from here: LaGuardia, DC National, Boston, Chicago Midway, all of the Florida cities, Dallas/Ft. Worth, LAX, San Francisco, Denver, etc.

I know in the past you have called them a crap airline, made allusions to Valuejet, etc., though I have noticed you have toned this down lately. In my opinion, they work in the Atlanta market better than Southwest would for 3 big reasons: Advance seat assignments with boarding passes, Business Class for a very reasonable upgrade fee and XM Radio at every seat. Southwest offers none of this, and Atlanta travelers are pretty demanding and have come to rely on these "frills", so there actually is a lot of brand loyalty here with them. In every way domestically, they give Delta a run for their money.

Re: your remarks about Delta, I really don't think you have a full handle on them either. Some of your remarks are just way too "out there". One big reason for their trip to Bankruptcy was a guy named Leo Mullin. Ever heard of him?

Leo Mullin was certainly a reason for the bankruptcy and I don't deny that. But the bigger picture is mis-managment and that's what I said in my original post. FWIW, I never claimed to have a "handle" on anything Delta. I don't know how you can say that my remarks were "out there" when we all know them to be the truth. Nonetheless, that has nothing to do with the second airport.


I have never come out and said that Airtran isn't in competition with Delta, as a matter of fact I basically said they were on routes they share. But I said that Delta alone eats their lunch on frequency and sheer amount of destinations in the US. You can't deny that at all. Airtran will not get you to Lexington, KY or to Louisville, Little Rock, so on and so forth. That's where Delta takes them to the washers at. Now, as for the markets they share frequencies on with Delta, yeah they drive the price down no doubt. But it's miniscule in the grand scheme of things domestically. So yes, they are competition, but no, they aren't a massive threat to Delta. I agree that Airtran would work wonders better than Southwest in the ATL marketplace though. That's almost a no brainer.

My feelings about Airtran go back to the days of Valujet and the way they left this market. They still owe the airport here close to $300,000 for back rents. And they still haven't paid up on it. But yet, they want back in here. Go figure.

[atlantaguy]

Well sorry, but no we do not all know that your remarks about Delta were the truth. Leo Mullins was the mis-management. Just like your remark about them currently flying four liveries! WTF? If you were at an airport that got a large mix of mainline jets on a daily basis you would realize that every major carrier except American has multiple liveries all at the same time.

Valujet is not Airtran. I don't care what they did to BNA, but it is not the same company. Again I will state that you have no idea what you are talking about re: them vs. Delta in this market.

I think it's great that you are such an aviation enthusiast now, but you are mixing it up here with industry insiders that know what they are talking about. A lot of us live and breathe this stuff all day long, every day.

[Lexy]

Originally Posted by atlantaguy

Valujet is not Airtran. I don't care what they did to BNA, but it is not the same company. Again I will state that you have no idea what you are talking about re: them vs. Delta in this market.

I think it's great that you are such an aviation enthusiast now, but you are mixing it up here with industry insiders that know what they are talking about. A lot of us live and breathe this stuff all day long, every day.

It is still the same "company" and they still owe the airport authority money for back rent. End of story and the end of game for them here. Ask anyone, ANYONE in their office and they will tell you that Nashville is a hole in their route system that they would like to plug back up. But until they pay up, they are on the outside looking in.

I am much more connected to the industry than you would think. Matter of fact, you would be pleasantly surprised to know what I do in regards to it and what I know (or WHO I know). But I digress. I'm not going to get into a cute little pissing match with someone who thinks they know it all. You have been, and continue to be, the only one on here that thinks everyone is clueless but yourself. I am through with the thread. You, Altantaguy, have lived up to the expectations that are set out for forumers from Atlanta. Thanks for backing up what has already been known on this forum about most of you.

Good day.

[bATLbecks]

Just thought I'd tell you, I read on ajc.com today that Hartsfield has resorted to using buses to transport people from planes to the terminal and vice versa. We all had that experience, I bet, when after a long flight you still have to wait on the ground for an additional 30 minutes for an occupied gate to become free. So, good news is they're finally trying to remedy this. Bad news, these people are so slow-acting that they hardly realize that the demand for a 2nd ATL airport is imminent and necessary now -- not 10/20 years down the road. Jeez, when will they learn?!