The Weave | Dead - Page 2

tworivers · #21 Posted **Jul 19, 2007, 11:33 PM**

Not option E, thanks to the above-ground parking. I'm always amazed to hear people on this forum settling for multiple above ground parking levels for no other reason than height.

And Cab, I'm with you. In fact, until I saw this notice I was assuming that it was indeed that parking lot that was being developed (partly because of the renovation rendering on the side of the building now set to be demo'd). The economic realities that make surface parking lots more profitable than an existing building, in a wanna-be-dense downtown area, are upside down. But we all know that.

Plenty to be excited about with this building. Kovel + a tiny floor plate + the West End. As long as they put the cars underground.

Drew-Ski · #22 Posted **Jul 19, 2007, 11:51 PM**

I like " E ". With ground floor retail planned for this tower, if designed correctly, should not detract from the street life, espeically on a 1/8 lot size.The quirky size of this building should fit in nicely in the neighborhood. Will each of the 22 floors of Condos be one unit??? I can't tell from the rendering.

zilfondel · #23 Posted **Jul 20, 2007, 12:41 AM**

Knowing Kovell, he'd likely put the above-ground parking in a well-lit glass box like a storefront display instead of hiding them. Unlike what you guys are saying, I believe the first 5 floors of a building are 100x more important than the upper 100, because that's what you experience on the street.

Guess the Seattle Envy has seriously afflicted some of our fellow forumers...

PacificNW · #24 Posted **Jul 20, 2007, 1:19 AM**

28 floors is hardly Seattle envy, IMO

......Seattle is in the process of approving condo towers that reach over 500'....Portland is not even close to that scale. I doubt this tower, or other's, @ 32 floors (or less) will be much of an impact on Portland's skyline...especially those located in the West End/West of 405. Looking West, from the river, the look of Portland's skyline will not be that much different than it is presently. There will still be the appearance of huge, toothless gaps between the Wells Fargo and US Bancorp towers. I think a couple 400-500'+ towers around the transit mall would do the trick of filling the gaps but I am not necessarily pro towers on the scale of Seattle being built in Portland....I think what is happening @ street level is more important, imo.. It's good to have differing opinions.

rsbear · #25 Posted **Jul 20, 2007, 3:58 AM**

Once you have to get into an elevator there is no difference between the second floor and the 22nd floor as far as street level activity.

PacificNW · #26 Posted **Jul 20, 2007, 4:28 AM**

⤴⤴ True...

WonderlandPark · #27 Posted **Jul 20, 2007, 4:38 AM**

Well, it is all in the design and execution. This is what parking below residential looks like in other parts of the country, Vegas has several like this.

zilfondel · #28 Posted **Jul 20, 2007, 6:40 PM**

Since a building takes 2 years to build, and this prob won't start construction for roughly another year, that would put this project smack in the middle of a real-estate upturn, by that account. (I am paying no attention to real estate right now)

Never forget the several year lag time it takes to complete a project.

kvalk · #29 Posted **Jul 20, 2007, 8:46 PM**

^"Since a building takes 2 years to build..."

well they have several options of different sizes, so that assumption may not be too accurate, but either way banks don't usually lend on what they think is going to happen in two years...the funding will need to be in place, and units probably sold, before anything really happens. Plus with the stage the project is at, at least by looking at the pre-application drawings, there is also quite a bit of time before they are even ready to submit for permit...

awg · #30 Posted **Jul 21, 2007, 3:25 AM**

I am having a difficult time taking this proposal seriously. At 5000 sf that puts this tower floor plate smaller than any other project in town by 30%-40%. The Meriwether towers down in SOWA are I believe 8000 or 8250 sf. This is less. BY A LOT. What is the Benson? I added up 5201 in condo space on floors 2-14. I guess something like 1500-1800sf of corridor, elevator, and stairs and its around 7000 sf. I don't see any way to take anything out of the core unless you have only one condo per floor so you'd end up with a crazy efficiency of something like 3500/5000 = 70%. Projects become real tough financially around 80-85%. This is miles below that.

I'm scratching my head on this one

rsbear · #31 Posted **Jul 21, 2007, 6:00 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by awg

I am having a difficult time taking this proposal seriously. At 5000 sf that puts this tower floor plate smaller than any other project in town by 30%-40%. The Meriwether towers down in SOWA are I believe 8000 or 8250 sf. This is less. BY A LOT. What is the Benson? I added up 5201 in condo space on floors 2-14. I guess something like 1500-1800sf of corridor, elevator, and stairs and its around 7000 sf. I don't see any way to take anything out of the core unless you have only one condo per floor so you'd end up with a crazy efficiency of something like 3500/5000 = 70%. Projects become real tough financially around 80-85%. This is miles below that.

I'm scratching my head on this one

I don't know how to compute the financial feasibility of a tower, but this one is exciting, not just for that specific location but for what could happen on other lots that are currently surface parking lots (or "tear-down buildings) but are smaller than a quarter block. These types of developments, if financially viable, could really add some interesting buildings to the core.

awg · #32 Posted **Jul 21, 2007, 2:34 PM**

After a night's sleep, I'm thinking the proposal must be one of two units per floor: cut out all the circulation space possible (like a small vestibule off of one elevator that leads to a 2 stairs and two entrances). Maybe this could get the efficiency numbers to around 75%. Still doesn't seem like a stretch given the current state of luxury condo demand. But it is so damn intriguing its hard not to root for it.

I also am not dead set against above grade parking. It's clear that a nice 3 or 4 stories above the street is better without parking but there are examples within walking distance of this site with parking above the street that don't suck the soul out of the building. I ripped these off GBD's website:

The Henry

The Edge Lofts

I'm pretty sure (but not positive) that the Henry is three levels of parking above grade (2-4) and that the Edge is 3 levels plus an open air level (1-4).

zilfondel · #33 Posted **Jul 22, 2007, 12:05 AM**

The Edge Lofts has all their parking on the back half of the building. On the tower that fronts 14th, it is all retail and lofts. No dead space.

And the 28 story tower proposal includes FIVE stories of parking. There wouldn't be any windows on the building until the 7th, which would be ABOVE the height of the Crystal Ballroom:

I do not feel that 5 stories' worth of blank walls on the lower facades of downtown buildings is appropriate.

Dougall5505 · #34 Posted **Jul 22, 2007, 12:26 AM**

Quote:

I do not feel that 5 stories' worth of blank walls on the lower facades of downtown buildings is appropriate.

five stories of parking doesn't necessarily mean five stories of blank wall. there could be translucent windows like at the edge.

I think one of the most interesting elements of this tower is going to be the restaurant. Is the restaurant really going to look like its stuck between two blocks like a jenga game like the rener makes it look. I think that could turn out really cool.

NJD · #35 Posted **Jul 22, 2007, 2:15 AM**

I, for one wouldn't worry about above ground parking aethetics both with Portland's thick building codes and the fact that skylab is designing the thing... In fact I am excited to see such a slender builder (of any of those heights) that will have 3 out of 4 active sides (I'm guessing they won't secure the view rights to the south parking lot). With this, the proposed tower for the everyday music building, the zgf tower and the brewery blocks this area is going to be quite the center of activity for a while...

PacificNW · #36 Posted **Jul 22, 2007, 2:34 AM**

I know some of you have knocked the Moyer's Broadway tower (with the Regal Cinema's & across Broadway from the symphony hall) but I think they concealed the above ground parking pretty well. The same thing could be in the works for this proposal...btw, I don't care for that Las Vegas tower with above ground parking. I don't care for the blank walls. I hope this will not happen with this project.

Dougall5505 · #37 Posted **Jul 22, 2007, 9:28 PM**

Quote:

With this, the proposed tower for the everyday music building

haven't heard about this any more info?

tworivers · #38 Posted **Jul 22, 2007, 11:39 PM**

Here's a pic I snapped this weekend of the Skylab site. ZGF construction off to the right.

I still think the idea of above-ground parking levels sucks. The Las Vegas rendering is 100% soul-sucking, the Edge works because the parking is tucked behind the building next to the freeway, and I think the Henry is a good example of what zilfondel is talking about: those lower floors look ok --just ok-- but they still create this dead zone just above the retail streetscape. Imagine how much better it would look and feel if the residential came down to just above the street and you had people hanging out right there. Just my 2 cents. Who knows if we'll ever even see this tower go up.

Speaking of ghost towers (not to jinx this one or anything), has anyone noticed that the Jumptown building is at least finally being renovated? I would have much rather seen the Yeang proposal go up, but at least it's not sitting there taunting me with its emptiness anymore.

Dougall5505 · #39 Posted **Jul 23, 2007, 12:35 AM**

did you get a picture of the zgf site? I haven't been by there in a while

tworivers · #40 Posted **Jul 23, 2007, 12:48 AM**

^^^ No, I didn't bother this time, sorry. They were digging... I want to say they were about 15 feet down accross the whole site, deeper right next to the Masu/Cacao/American Apparel building.