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  #2201  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2007, 5:23 PM
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Here's a strange twist in the X/O saga:

http://chicagobusiness.com/cgi-bin/news.pl?id=25726&bt=fioretti&arc=n&searchType=all&seenIt=1

Proposed zoning change threatens South Loop project

(Crain’s) — Newly elected 2nd Ward Alderman Bob Fioretti has introduced a zoning change that would shrink a controversial South Loop condominium project, potentially triggering a lawsuit from the developer.

read more:
http://chicagobusiness.com/cgi-bin/news.pl?id=25726&bt=fioretti&arc=n&searchType=all&seenIt=1

Last edited by Steely Dan; Jul 20, 2007 at 8:49 PM.
     
     
  #2202  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2007, 5:29 PM
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Originally Posted by wrabbit View Post
Here's a strange twist in the X/O saga:
“I’m not one that likes to see litigation,” he says, “but I think that everybody believes that this is an inappropriate structure at this location.”
Everybody on this forum who lives in Fioretti's ward should write/call/email him to convince him otherwise.
     
     
  #2203  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2007, 5:30 PM
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Originally Posted by SamInTheLoop View Post
That is a huge, huge relief if it is DeStefano alone designing both towers (I know that DeStefano has (regrettably) worked with Bofill in the past!!) Could Reschke actually be talked into a decent modern design?? I love 2nd century Rome and 15th century Florence, but I don't want to live in them!! Also, smart move by Reschke to dump the condos and go apartment and hotel. Maybe we can get this two tower residential-hotel project and the two tower office-hotel project by Hines across the street under construction at the same time - now that would be sweet!
What I've seen of this project is quite nice
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  #2204  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2007, 5:38 PM
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What I've seen of this project is quite nice
What have you seen?
     
     
  #2205  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2007, 5:40 PM
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^ So it's also Fioretti's fault that 1320 N. LAKE SHORE DRIVE is a surface parking lot, because developing it would be "out of character" with the neighborhood? What a douche.
     
     
  #2206  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2007, 5:49 PM
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I am still amazed at how these people keep throwing a fit over the "proper" location for these condos in the South Loop. There is nothing left of the Prairie District except for a halfblock of historical homes that are already out of character with the rest of the neighborhood. They have thier right to feel as they do as property owners, but I find it hard for them to change what has already been set in motion. Those neighborhoods are going to go high whether or not the residents like it, they are too prime of a location for anyone to ignore. If things go in place now to keep buildings low, eventually that bubble will burst as development pressures there force it to change. People that would like to see supertalls there need to just relax. The height of the loop itself wasnt built in 15-20 years, which is as short a time frame weve seen the south loop really become a lived in neighborhood.
     
     
  #2207  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2007, 5:49 PM
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Originally Posted by VivaLFuego View Post
^ So it's also Fioretti's fault that 1320 N. LAKE SHORE DRIVE is a surface parking lot, because developing it would be "out of character" with the neighborhood? What a douche.
Did he have something to do with that?

I'm very angry about this right now. How can he complain about this when you have a 30 story building going up across the street and a 25 story building just finished 100' to the north?

Here's his contact information:

Bob Fioretti for 2nd Ward Alderman
429 S. Dearborn St.
Chicago, IL 60605

312.2ND.WARD
312.263.9273


Contact me at: [email protected]
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  #2208  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2007, 6:01 PM
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Originally Posted by VivaLFuego View Post
So it's also Fioretti's fault that 1320 N. Lake Shore Drive is a surface parking lot
Not personally. I think he was just one of the attorneys the rich people on Astor Street hired.
     
     
  #2209  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2007, 6:56 PM
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This downzoning proposal has to be one of the most idiotic ideas I've heard from an alderman in a long time. As a former lawyer, he knows it's bound to lose in court after the developers had approval and every right to market and build their tower.

Personally, I think he knows this and is expecting the Planning Department to kill the idea. It's just a political way to save face and claim that he tried to do something. Fairly sick politics, if you ask me. I support community involvement and even NIMBYs, even when I disagree with them most of the time, but this is just stupid.
     
     
  #2210  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2007, 7:24 PM
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Just sent this to Fioretti:

Dear Mr. Fioretti:

I am a resident of the 3rd Ward and was extremely disturbed to learn that you are proposing an attempt to rezone the parcel of land on which the X/O condominium project is proposed to be built. Setting aside my personal views, I am troubled by what appears to be your pandering to the vociferous, but in my view wrongheaded, PDNA. Whether or not you believe that former Alderman Haithcock was right is supporting the X/O project, the project was approved and withstood a prior legal challenge. Therefore, a rezoning of the parcel at this point, if successful (and upheld in the inevitable court case), would create a dangerous precedent in the Ward. I have no affiliation with any developer or other party active in the residential real estate community; instead, I am simply a resident who is excited by the continued development and the concomitant services, amenities and vibrancy it brings to our Ward. Certainly a successful effort to rezone this parcel would send the wrong message to developers and would have a chilling effect on development in the neighborhood. In addition, I have no desire to see my tax dollars spent to litigate the matter in court (there can be no doubt that the developers will fight the rezoning tooth and nail, especially in light of the expenses I am sure they have incurred to date). Surely we can all think of better ways to spend that money.

I am also dismayed that you appear to support the PDNA's assertion that the X/O "just doesn’t belong there." What makes that parcel so different from the parcels on which 1717 Prairie, 1600 Museum Park and 1600 South Prairie sit? The argument that the development is too large because it abuts the Historic District is, in my view, spurious. The impact of 1717 South Prairie, for example, or Museum Park Place for that matter, is just as significant (although in the case of 1717 South Prairie, is much less satisfying, given the terrible architecture of the building). Moreover, the pseudo-Victorian townhouses that surround 1717 South Prairie are more of an insult to the Historic District than Lagrange's wonderfully contemporary design, which is, as were Glessner House and the others, of its time.

The reality is that the "Historic District" along Prairie Avenue stretches from 18th Street to Cullerton and includes a whopping 5 historic buildings. I have no desire to see the integrity of that block diminished, and there is no doubt that it provides a charming respite in the middle of a busy city, but the truth is that, given the ever appreciating value of land, the increasing desirability of the neighborhood and the proximity to the Loop and Lake Michigan, this neighborhood is going to continue to increase in density and new high rises will continue to be developed. In my view, and the view of many of my neighbors, that is a good thing. We moved to this neighborhood not because of what it is, but rather because of the promise of what it will be. X/O is part of what the neighborhood will, and should, be. Those who desire to live a suburban existence should not expect to find it practically in the shadow of the Sears Tower; nor should you prop up such expectations.

I sincerely hope that this rezoning proposal is shut down before it moves forward. If not, I can assure you that you will not have my vote when election time rolls around.

Sincerely,
     
     
  #2211  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2007, 8:14 PM
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^ Nice letter, although the landmark district does include more than 5 buildings.

One other point about this issue that really bugs me: The existing building on the site of X/O is actually pretty interesting. Although I wouldn't have ultimately supported the argument, I would have been interested to hear some of these "preservation-minded" people discuss the merits of keeping this part of their "historic district." And yet, they seem perfectly happy to have it bite the dust...
     
     
  #2212  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2007, 8:33 PM
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I don't get it.. the downzoning at 255' is still pretty tall, why the hell do they give a shit if the towers have 10-15 more floors than that? Why does 255' suddenly make it ok to them? From a street level presence, and hell even a skyline presence, the towers really aren't THAT much different... if at all at street level.
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  #2213  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2007, 9:01 PM
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^ Well, by golly, the Prairie District tower is 261'. They might risk sounding like hypocrites if they demanded anything shorter, since most of them live in that development.

I just love this attitude - whatever we think is nice is perfect, but anything else is inappropriate for the neighborhood. The jerks at WLCO use that argument all the time. I don't know where these people get the nerve.
     
     
  #2214  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2007, 9:07 PM
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Originally Posted by honte View Post
This downzoning proposal has to be one of the most idiotic ideas I've heard from an alderman in a long time. As a former lawyer, he knows it's bound to lose in court after the developers had approval and every right to market and build their tower.

Personally, I think he knows this and is expecting the Planning Department to kill the idea. It's just a political way to save face and claim that he tried to do something. Fairly sick politics, if you ask me. I support community involvement and even NIMBYs, even when I disagree with them most of the time, but this is just stupid.
After further thought, I have espoused this view of it. honte beat me to it though. This is just politics. The X/O developers clearly have the upper hand legally. He knows that it's too late to change anything, so he picked a fight he can't win to gain support from the PDNA. Awfully cynical, but it happens all the time.
     
     
  #2215  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2007, 9:14 PM
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Originally Posted by rascacielos View Post
Just sent this to Fioretti:

Dear Mr. Fioretti:

I am a resident of the 3rd Ward and was extremely disturbed to learn that you are proposing an attempt to rezone the parcel of land on which the X/O condominium project is proposed to be built. Setting aside my personal views, I am troubled by what appears to be your pandering to the vociferous, but in my view wrongheaded, PDNA. Whether or not you believe that former Alderman Haithcock was right is supporting the X/O project, the project was approved and withstood a prior legal challenge. Therefore, a rezoning of the parcel at this point, if successful (and upheld in the inevitable court case), would create a dangerous precedent in the Ward. I have no affiliation with any developer or other party active in the residential real estate community; instead, I am simply a resident who is excited by the continued development and the concomitant services, amenities and vibrancy it brings to our Ward. Certainly a successful effort to rezone this parcel would send the wrong message to developers and would have a chilling effect on development in the neighborhood. In addition, I have no desire to see my tax dollars spent to litigate the matter in court (there can be no doubt that the developers will fight the rezoning tooth and nail, especially in light of the expenses I am sure they have incurred to date). Surely we can all think of better ways to spend that money.

I am also dismayed that you appear to support the PDNA's assertion that the X/O "just doesn’t belong there." What makes that parcel so different from the parcels on which 1717 Prairie, 1600 Museum Park and 1600 South Prairie sit? The argument that the development is too large because it abuts the Historic District is, in my view, spurious. The impact of 1717 South Prairie, for example, or Museum Park Place for that matter, is just as significant (although in the case of 1717 South Prairie, is much less satisfying, given the terrible architecture of the building). Moreover, the pseudo-Victorian townhouses that surround 1717 South Prairie are more of an insult to the Historic District than Lagrange's wonderfully contemporary design, which is, as were Glessner House and the others, of its time.

The reality is that the "Historic District" along Prairie Avenue stretches from 18th Street to Cullerton and includes a whopping 5 historic buildings. I have no desire to see the integrity of that block diminished, and there is no doubt that it provides a charming respite in the middle of a busy city, but the truth is that, given the ever appreciating value of land, the increasing desirability of the neighborhood and the proximity to the Loop and Lake Michigan, this neighborhood is going to continue to increase in density and new high rises will continue to be developed. In my view, and the view of many of my neighbors, that is a good thing. We moved to this neighborhood not because of what it is, but rather because of the promise of what it will be. X/O is part of what the neighborhood will, and should, be. Those who desire to live a suburban existence should not expect to find it practically in the shadow of the Sears Tower; nor should you prop up such expectations.

I sincerely hope that this rezoning proposal is shut down before it moves forward. If not, I can assure you that you will not have my vote when election time rolls around.

Sincerely,
I'd also mail this letter VIA the USPS and save a copy for yourself, so if you ever go one of the comunity meetings and ask, you'll have the proof.
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  #2216  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2007, 9:22 PM
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rock ON!!!!!!!!

whoever wrote that letter.........my congrats on being so eloquent and fair. Its so nice that people DO realize sometimes they move to places that are BECOMING something and not what they already are! thank you thank you thank you. the rest of ya idiots who feel differently, go move by ohare and complain about the noise when the airport starts its expanison!!!!!!!
     
     
  #2217  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2007, 9:45 PM
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These are excerpts from an article in the near west gazette a few months back about earlier PDNA efforts to fight this development. For those that don't remember, they forgot to go to the community review meetings(when such efforts might have made a difference), then claimed that they weren't informed of the meeting by the developer. Of course, it was posted where such meeting dates are always posted, and most on this board were well aware of it and many attended it. Anyways, in the article, DPD makes excruciatingly clear that the permit process for the towers was legal and had full disclosure to the community. Further, the DPD position, from an urban planning viewpoint, is that the "historic district" argument, is bullshit. The quotes in that article alone make any legal challenge to this project unsustainable. But legality aside, it doesn't seem at all likely that the city would side with the PDNA in this case anyway.


http://www.nearwestgazette.com/Archi...story0507f.htm

The Prairie District Neighborhood Alliance (PDNA) has filed a procedural challenge with the City’s Department of Planning and Development asking for clarification on aspects of the approved X/O luxury highrise project at 1700 S. Prairie Ave, which would erect one tower of 45 stories and another 33 stories high. The City, however, found no reason for an investigation and nothing inappropriate in the project’s approval process.

The City’s Department of Planning and Development (DPD) said that, although the PDNA objects to having two tall towers near the historic Prairie District, the property actually sits just north of the district and fits into the City’s plan for the South Loop for several reasons. For example, according to Constance Buscemi, DPD spokesperson, the X/O development will be down the block from other new—and taller—buildings, the corner will provide open space that is accessible and available to the community, the project will provide parking as required, and the development will be set back behind townhouses in accordance with the South Loop plan.

“Development means that you mix old with new—a mix of heights and density,” Buscemi said. “If you never developed anything, it would stay the same. You do not preserve a historic district by creating new buildings that mimic it but [by constructing ones] that are different so you don’t confuse historic buildings with recently erected buildings.”

Buscemi confirmed the developers completed the approval process in the correct manner by holding community meetings and going through the City Planning Commission and Zoning Committee, where the public can comment.

“It was an open, public process judged on its merits, and it was approved,” Buscemi said. “There was nothing inappropriate and no reason for investigation.”

“The public and community review of this project took place over a period of over six months, which allowed comment and community input from many, many different sources," Giles wrote in a letter that was read aloud at the last GSLA meeting. "The result was a project that was approved without significant objection.”

Last edited by hoju; Jul 20, 2007 at 10:01 PM.
     
     
  #2218  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2007, 11:21 PM
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This X/O news is ridiculous. I can't believe the Prairie District f*ckers just won't give it a rest and move on with their lives. The towers planned are NOT within the historic district, period. I do think the alderman is playing games here and that the original plans will go through. But his NIMBY ass kissing does not bode well for future tall, modern design in the South Loop. Boooooo!
     
     
  #2219  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2007, 12:49 AM
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I have just e-mailed Fioretti a letter voicing my support for the X/O project and 830 S. Michigan. I did not vote for Fioretti in the last election. I actually voted for Haithcock. Her opponents said she was a do nothing and rubber stamp for the Mayor. Those seemed convincing arguments to gain my vote. See what happens when aldermen are left without adult supervision.

I know Citizens for Better Planning has invited Fioretti to discuss issues with them, but after today's pandering I think that invitation shoul be pointedly withdrawn. It is certainly a meeting I would have no interest in ttending.
     
     
  #2220  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2007, 1:44 AM
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Originally Posted by rascacielos View Post
They are driving piles at 1555 S. Wabash.
did they look like foundation pile, are was it just site perimeter piling for excavation? i'll try to get down there tomorrow to check it out unless you can say for sure that it's definitely U/C.
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